Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: 11

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Hi Chaos welcome though so sorry you have to be here

Sounds like your NSDP is doing a good old head job on you. I think I'd go mad if my FW was working p/t or at home. Stay on this thread and read the links, it's such a lifeline, it slowly brings sanity flooding back into your mind when EA has obscured everything.

Hi ChaosCatt, these are all classic tactics of emotional abuse, all so subtle that you could go mad trying to work our exactly what's happening, what you've done wrong, what to do to fix it (answer: nothing, if you fix one thing he'll move onto something else). Read the links. I've read Lundy, which is great for opening your eyes and affirming that you're being abused, and I'm currently reading the Beverley Engels book which I'm finding very useful and practical.

tryingsoonflying - love it!

Am not having a good day.

Dropped the boys off with NSDH, took the girls (stepdaughters) out for a Maccy D breakfast cos I hadn't seen them this weekend. They told me their Dad is still drinking (despite promising he wouldn't, and despite later barefaced lying to me & saying he'd had nothing this weekend ). They also told me that he's shouted at both of them to the point of making them cry this weekend. DSD2 told me a really worrying one where he suggested insisted she go up to her room to lie down for a while as she was obviously tired & that's why she was arguing with him and being stroppy. She didn't want to but eventually agreed. Then he called her back and asked why she was going off in a huff with him, that was not on, etc! And then it was all 'I forgive you, let's make up, I think we're really both in the same boat here'. Poor girl, she must've been so confused. With DSD1 it was because she'd forgotten to pop in and see me on the way back from town - I wasn't in anyway, took DS1 & friend to park - but he made a really big deal about it and made her phone me and apologise.

When I dropped the girls back, he was fishing for stuff. Wanting to know where we stand (again), if we were going out at all together this week (again). Apparently he's 'different' now - I asked him how he'd made that change, he said he just had . I said I didnt think he was different, suggested a book for him to read (Beverley Engels), he refused, it all got a bit messy, and I just wanted to go. But he insisted we talk about stuff. i said over and over I didn't want to, the kids were in the house, I'd rather wait till next week (half term) when all the kids bar DS2 would be away. But he kept on and kept on.

In the end, he demanded that I decide right there and then whether it was a yes or a no for us. I refused, but he insisted, so, frustrated, I said it's a no - because the way I feel right now, after the argument we were having, after what happened a couple of weeks ago that I can't get over, after his resistance to proper change. I don't want it to be a no, but I've been thinking about it all weekend - how it's like having willpower if you're dieting, or trying to get off drugs (there's a definite sense of addiction for me) or anything that you really, really want but know that is ultimately no good for you. It doesn't matter that I don't want us to be over, it doesn't matter if I really want to eat a whole trifle to myself. What matters is do I have the willpower to resist the thing that I know isn't good for me but I want. And to have that willpower, I have to actually care enough about myself to not want to feel that horrible self-loathing after I give in and eat the trifle (or whatever or ).

So I said no, because I had to. To say yes, let's keep on trying would be saying 'I have no self worth, you are more important than me in this relationship'. Because he was looking to force me into saying yes so he could feel better about us. I really don't think he can change. And then he took his ring off. I left in floods of tears. He's texted me since I left: once to say 'I'm sorry it's over but I'll always love you,' then when I replied to say he'd broken my heart he replied with 'Well, you ended it', followed up with 'It doesn't have to be this way, please reconsider'. I have texted him to say that if he can change, including admitting he's abusive to me and the children, and committing to never behave like that again, and do what's needed to change, then there might be a chance, but he has to do that work first before there can be a chance.

Now I'm off to give the flat a right seeing to with some Flash powerspray. And then possibly off to Asda to buy a trifle...

Oh, and I forgot that the conversation about him wanting to talk about stuff started with him telling me I had to be careful with contacting the girls on Facebook (he's obviously overheard me saying to them that I'd see them on Facebook for instant messaging at some point during the week) - because if this was all over it wasn't fair to them to get close to me. And then said that if we broke up he wasn't sure it would be fair to keep seeing DS1! TWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT!

Oh pony I'm sorry he had you in tears again...

I too was 'forced' to make a decision about our future. Repeating Sir Lundy's script word for word FW said he'd had enough and I had to decide as he 'wouldn't wait for ever' and 'couldn't I see that he was changing'.

I tried to get out of saying yes or no...but he insisted...he pushed and pushed...so I said no.

Since then it's all been about...how much he loves me...and look at how he's changing...and how could I split up the family (while simultaneously treating me respectfully one minute and like a doormat the next).

pony I worry that you've said 'no' to him but have now added a 'but'...please be careful xxx

Pony So sorry, sounds like you have had a right time of it with your FW. Enjoy the trifle, I always turn to yummy food too for comfort!

Ana How ungrateful re the new phone! I have a toy one going spare here if he would be happier with that! Sings old macdonald too!

Trying Fab new name! Was going to suggest Tryingtodust! Lol! My FW is the same, kicks off at the smallest of stuff.

Chaos Welcome! Its not nice to know that we belong on this thread as its another lady going through the same torture but you will hopefully find it a great support and somewhere where others understand without judging.

Bertie You are me-its scary how much we have in common :-( my best friend died in January this year from bowel cancer. The day I found out she had passed I collasped distraught. Did my FW hug me, comfort me? NO. I got my hair pulled and a mouthful of insults. And I'm still with this arsehole?? I have been through IVF too (my bits are the prob not him) am lucky to have two beautiful babies but lost quite a few along the journey over the years. My pregnancy with my son was awful-placenta probs/bleeding etc etc was in hospital most of the time and like you cannot have any other children (would basically kill me). This makes me sad as if I were eventually able to start a new life with someone I wouldn't be able to have a LO with them. My DB has been through testi cancer and thankfully come through the other side. Made me vvvv sad reading your post as know exactly the emotions you are going through. All of that and our FWs to deal with on top! Sending huge HUGE hugs to you xx

In other news.... My FW has been strangly very nice and happy the last few days-always makes me nervous as just waiting then for something to turn him! Yesterday he even came to the park with me + kids-shock! On our walk there we passed an estate agents, one of them popped out of the shop and he made a speech to me and the kids that he would love to buy a house off her and why didn't mummy dress like that nice lady...she was wearing a mini skirt, lacy tights and 8inch heels! My 3 year old DD told him straight away that the lady looked silly and mummy would too if she wore it to the park! I just smiled! :-) He's back to work tomorrow-thank the stars above!!!! Big hugs to you all!

maggie LOL at your DC and what the 'lady' was wearing

Thanks for your kind words...it sounds like you've been through an awful lot too...

I had a better day today. FW was working all day so it was just me and DS. We spent most of the day with friends and then came home to watch a DVD...lovely and peaceful!

Then MiL phoned to say how sorry she was to hear about Dcat1. She's phoned me quite a few times recently (but then she always has called fairly frequently). In the middle of this phone call today FW came home...so when I'd finished speaking to her I thought it only polite to tell her he'd just come in and would she like to talk to him? She said yes...so I passed the phone over to him.

He was fuming that she'd called me. He hates that we're still in contact. No doubt he thinks that I'm telling her the truth things that he doesn't want her to hear.

Actually, I'm not saying anything about him. TBH when I do speak to her we tend to talk about me, my family, DS, and her. She's already told me she knows what he like and he's horrible to her too and she thinks I'm wonderful and she's very sorry. She's been very honest unlike her son

Oh, pony you poor love, you have been put through the mill this weekend, I am so sorry. And the poor dsds too . Hugs and

Maggie, at tryingtodust, Lol! On a sadder note, what a FW your fw was for saying that about the lady estate agent, honestly, I can't believe how rude these entitled fws get. Good for your DD, clever little girl

Bertie how are you? How nice of your MiL to be like that and how fwitted of your FW to be such a paranoid prat (PP?) about it - I guess the truth hurts him, eh?

Maggie, I'm so sorry to hear about all your other awful times too, that all just sounds so hard. Sometimes I wonder how people keep going on a daily basis. The reason you do is that you're stronger than you believe, and that's is what will, in the end, get you free of your FW. Again, I'm worried that he's been strangely nice and happy. I think this is dangerous and calculated. (Altho what he said about the estate agent lady was not nice at all, but hurrah for DD having her head straight, good girl, you're bringing her up well!)

bertie, I was nodding as I read your post about him not liking that you're in contact with his DM. He doesn't like that you have outside support, and likes it even less that it's someone whose good opinion of him could be being tarnished. I wonder if that's what's behind my NSDH's pronouncement of about not wanting me to Facebook my DSDs, he wants to cut me off from their support, doesn't want us all colluding and talking about him behind his back.

I was also nodding with what you said about the Lundy script - that was spot on what happened earlier. Really don't think he was expecting me to say no. He's now confusing the hell out of me - it wasn't good again when I picked up the boys after dinner (he actually said that what happened two Sundays ago was down to me, and it was because I was being aggressive and saying I was leaving with his son that it happened). He then text me to say how out of order I was. Now he's just text me re the text I sent earlier, about him needing to change, saying he's thought long and hard, he knows what's required and has already started doing it, hopes I give him the chance to prove it. Am so very, very tired.

Hello all, a pretty shitty day here, I will have a proper catch up in a bit. I just have one annoyance today

iPhone's are so clever....but how come I can't block FWs number from texting me? I don't want to hear from him anymore. Stupid phones. I don't want to change my number.

Ana, I don't have an iPhone (if I wish hard enough...) so don't know, but can you assign him a particular text-tone and ringtone, and make it a silent one? that way you don't notice when he calls/texts and can more easily ignore them.

Or could you contact your phone company and get them to do it? Or does that seem too final?

My phone company can't block texts. I've asked before. My only option is a number change. We had a heated discussion, in other words, he launches into a tirade over nothing and I simper on the other end of the phone. I can't face him texting either to 'allow' ME to apologise or 'ha I've moved on' and various insults about my appearance. My phone is always on silent and actual calls aren't an issue - he only has credit when I buy it but gets free texts. Sorry I'm a bit self involved, I'll aim to be more giving tomorrow. His tirade combined with the X factor tonight has taken its toll.

Could you just turn off your phone for the rest of the evening? I do that sometimes, it feels weird but it's strangely enjoyable!

I know, X Factor weirdness. I was both willing Rylan to get voted off, because the girl seemed the better singer, and willing him not to be because he is entertaining... but Louis was just bizarre!!! It was painful to watch.

Ana so sorry you've had shitty day . I don't know answer to iphone thing but am very impressed by your resolution in wishing to block his number! Hmmmm.... could you put that sim into your old phone and block his number via that phone and see if it then translates when you put sim back in iphone? I am pretty low tech so that's prob a useless suggestion though

Pony how difficult and confusing your NSDH is being. I think your conclusion about contact with dsds is completely spot on. What a horrible case of spag head he's trying to dish up to you re the abusive incident a couple of weekends ago. Thank god we all have eachother to remind ourselves of our sanity. Hope you're ok (ish).

My FW has been an ARSE oh, such an arse all weekend. Prat prat prat. Had me in tears several times and it takes a lot to do that these days, I've become so distanced and self protecting from the years of ea.

I am hating him now, he's really got me to that point. Any pockets of fondness have been destroyed by his stupid cruelty. I am feeling ill again and I was so much better following hospital visit and meds. Feck him, I won't let him ruin my health and my dcs' mental well being. DS told me tonight he feels "a bit sad but I don't know why, what should I do?" poor poppet.

PS funnily enough having written the above, the actual pain has now gone away - emotions are so linked with body, aren't they.

ps xpost re phone...!

Hello to Chaos

trying love the new NN! And sorry to hear about your shitty weekend.

Curtis, keep going love, he's just trying to spaghetti head you.

Ana, no advice here on the phone thing I'm afraid

Busy weekend here moving furniture, nothing unusual going on, just his usual leaving all childcare to me. Obviously what I said at counselling hasn't sunk in. Don't know if he's coming to our session tomorrow and afraid to ask, but if he does - I need to tell him he has to change. This counselling is a total waste of time so far. Wish me luck.

Good luck nini, so sorry to hear counselling's been a waste of time so far. Even if he doesn't go tomorrow, I hope the session gives you some relief and peace, having space to talk things through.

Good luck with your counselling today Nini. It's hard to keep going with it if you feel it's not helping, it just makes you feel even more frustrated.

Sorry to hear about your bad weekend too trying - I completely agree about emotions being so linked to the body. And venting it out on here helps get it out rather than festering away. Poor DS, is he feeling less sad today?
How are you feeling about the relationship at the moment? Do you have any thoughts about if/how to get out of it?

More spag-head (so should be an emoticon for that! Could just b a smiley face with scribble hair) from the NSDH this morning, texting a v normal 'Morning, hope you had a good night's sleep etc... have a good day, love you. x' I have taken the opportunity of him having apparently decided that it's not all over (because he didn't say so) to email him about money issues - £180/month is still coming out of my account for bills at the house I left five months ago! So, if nothing else, I'll get that sorted before it all turns sour again. Silver linings!

Hi everyone....

Sorry not had chance to catch up on posts but just need to get something down in writing.

Last night FW wanted to talk. I agreed.

He started off by asking me what he could do to make things right. I'm afraid I got really frustrated...I know I should have ignored him and detached but I ended up telling him (for the 50 billionth time) that there was nothing he could do. IT IS TOO LATE. I also told him that the letter from the solicitor saying I was starting divorce proceedings should have made it perfectly clear!

I asked him (once again) why he hadn't moved out. He kept on going on about how hard it was to think about leaving and how good his relationship with DS was. How much he loved me. How he didn't want to leave. AAARRRRGGGHHHH

We were just going round in circles at this point. He mentioned his financial situation at one point as being a reason why he couldn't move out (he's broke) so I suggested I could buy him out of the house instead of us selling it. It's something I've been thinking about for a while but hadn't mentioned it to him before (I have family who have offered to help me out).

It would mean FW could get his 'share' of the equity sooner rather than later and means that DS and I could stay in the house. TBH I'm not that bothered about staying in the house but it might be easier in the long run (and would save money on solicitors fees etc).

FW went ballistic! He says he will not allow me to buy him out. He is so bloody selfcentred that he would rather sell the house to a complete strange...than make a bit of extra money and keep DS in the family home. This is from a man who had just 2 minutes before told me how much he loved me and how he would do anything to get me back.

I am stunned.

There's more.

This morning I received an email from FW. He wants to hold a 'meeting' with me in the house in 5 weeks time to discuss our 'separation' (he called it the 'separation meeting'). He has suggested times and dates for the meeting. He has attached an agenda for this meeting to the email.

I'm assuming he's chairing the meeting....

Words fail me.

hilde, so glad you had the kind of lovely weekend that you needed. Have you heard from the abuser programme yet, for your side of the story?

bertie, that all sounds just awful. Can you talk to your solicitor about the buying him out idea? Going via official channels might make him think again (ie his own solicitor might talk some sense into him and make hims see it's his best and cheapest option).
Why does the Separation Meeting (TM) have to be in 5 weeks' time? Why so far off? And can you refuse to attend the Separation Meeting (TM), instead saying that all discussions of this nature need to be done via solicitors?

I too am stunned by these FWs sense of priority. Now that I've emailed NSDH about finances, he's now back to asking me for my 'half' of the mortgage payments from mid-May onwards. This, after his text yesterday saying he was 'willing to do what was required [to save our relationship' and 'hoped he could prove to me that he could do it'. Score so far: Nil points.
Maybe I should point out to him that I paid for our honeymoon on my credit card (still paying it off) and he pocketed the money his mum gave us for that, along with the money she gave us for a new bed that we subsequently bought using wedding gift money and vouchers, and also pocketed the £300 she gave to DS2 when he was born, and the £300 refund we got from our solicitors when we bought our house, when I had paid all the fees with my savings. TWAAAAAAAAAAAAT!

Thanks girls....

pony I think he's 'too busy' to talk before then (despite last night saying that he wanted to discuss it further tonight).

Anyway, I've just contacted a mediator. I think that's the only way we're going to get this sorted out ('mediation' was point 2.1 on FWs agenda so I assume that means he'll be willing to attend....). Lady mediator sounded very nice on the phone.

I also spoke to my DB (him and DSiL are my rocks). DB has always been convinced that FW has actually got Mental Health issues. He thinks that FW will 'crash' big time at some point and get help. He reckons that all this crazy stuff he's doing is a sign that he's heading for a crash...

I also phoned WA. First time. I have to say that the lady I spoke to was really lovely. She knew exactly what to say. She gave me some local contacts and financial contacts.

I'm going to call the financial advice line tomorrow and check what would happen regarding the house if I moved out. I wouldn't be able to pay half the mortgage as well as rent...and FW is in debt just from paying his half of the mortgage. I'm wondering if I could move out just for a couple of months (a serviced apartment or something like that) it would shock FW into his crash (or at least make him move). But as i said I'm not that bothered about keeping the house anyway...i just don't want to lose my share of the (considerable) equity.

Anybody got any advice?