Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: 11

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Thanks ponygirl, I think we are both going for a joyous weekend. I hate weekends. And the cricket season has ended, so no reason for him to be out. Well, I don't know about anyone else but I've had enough of giving in. The words are now ringing round my head, along with "Can't believe he said that!" When really I should be thinking that I can believe that as he is after all a dickhead.(sorry).

Oh, ponygirl, how awful. Not making enough effort to save the relationship? If only you could smile sadly and say, "You're clearly a wonderful person but we just don't work together. Byeeeeee." If only life was that easy, eh?

Don't suppose you could lose the car keys or something so you can't get there this weekend...?

So.
Even though he said he wasn't going to drink this weekend I think he will.
I think tonight is a possible.
This morning when he agreed he wouldn't drink this weekend I asked why he was an angry drunk last night. He said it's knowing the counselling is coming up.
Thing is, when we sit in the room with the counsellor and I tell her what he is like she is going to agree that he is an abusive alcoholic and he doesn't want to be faced with the truth, when I'm saying it he can dismiss me as 'mad' 'stupid' or (my own special favourite) 'making it up'. I think that's what he's worried about, someone else pointing out what he already knows which is that he is a s**t of the highest order.

I wish a housing association house would hurry up and become available.

Oh dear pony, onesix and everyone...hope we're not all heading for a crap weekend again

onesix - stay safe tonight, this could be a dangerous time if his concern about counselling is making him worse. I know when I was trying to persuade my ex (DS1's dad) to go to joint counselling he was really not keen, because he felt that he'd just be made out to be the problem because of the drinking and he'd be attacked, and then he used this feeling of being attacked as an excuse to go out drinking. I think it's like you say - he felt he could happily delude himself that the problem was me, but if a professional pulled him up that was different, and he wasn't willing to face it. There's a chance your FW will refuse to go at the last minute, or scupper things in some way. Be ready for that, be ready to go on your own if you have to.

hilde, am glad that your DD's friend is pressing charges, but what an awful time for him. Hope he's doing ok. It does sound, as you say, like your FW is having a moment of clarity. I really, really don't want to pour cold water, I want to believe he's on his way, but there's a chance that even though he's being honest now he may decide it's all to painful to face up to the enormity of how he's been. Keep reserving judgement.

Thanks lost and Silver - I know I'm not helping myself as I should, I just seem to be unable to extricate myself from it at the moment. Unfortunately losing car keys wouldn't make much difference, I could walk to the house in about 20mins, so would be no hassle for NSDH to pop down with the car & pick us all up. And then I'd be stuck there without a car for a quick getaway...
You're right hilde, I need to step back (don't worry, not kettles or pots here, it's just so simple to see the trees surrounding the rest of us on here!!! ). That's what my counsellor suggested as well and that's what I was trying to achieve by suggesting I not go there for the night tomorrow. But I failed to follow through with it.
But lost, your phrase is exactly right, and has actually been on the tip of my tongue a few times. It is as basic as that - we make each other miserable a lot of the time, no matter whose fault it is and no matter what connections and bonds we feel we have, surely we can't go on if that's what our future prospect is. [deeeeeeep sigh]

Anyway, fingers crossed for calm weekends for all of us [waves at bertie too]

Hi brave ladies, I wish you well for the coming weekend too. Isn't it awful that we all hate weekends, what a sad state of affairs it's a giant flashing sign, isn't it . Onesix I second Pony's thing about staying safe; if he's building up to being faced with the horrible truth about himself being validated by a professional, as you very wisely have said, this could well be a good time to keep the eggsheels nice and peaceful, even though we shouldn't have to be doing that, but just for the weekend to keep yourself safe?

Hilde wow your husband is having a moment of clarity as you and the others are saying, that's the thing, isn't it. we catch occasional glimpes into the decent part of their souls, which they have because of course no-one's 100% bad. Trouble is, as you say, they have patterns of behaviour imprinted on their minds from youth that may be unchangeable. But sometimes with counselling it seems they can, who knows. I really hope for your sake that he might be the exception. Amd at least you are having support and decency from him while you're providing this valuable and life changing help to the boy you're helping. Wow, you're an angel in that boy's life

Pony, what you said about "It is as basic as that - we make each other miserable a lot of the time, no matter whose fault it is and no matter what connections and bonds we feel we have, surely we can't go on if that's what our future prospect is." Wow, is so TRUE! Yet we keep looking for permission to leave, but it really is as simple as that, but they have our heads in a mangle.

Good wishes and strength to all for the coming weekend [choc]

Hugs as always xx

So having a meltdown of epic proportions so thought I'd read some more
Of Lundy. Read the children section well that's just made me feel worse

:( x

Newbe so sorry you are feeling . Yes, the Lundy section on the children is definitely very emotional to read; I had to put it down. But you're taking those steps like we all are, to make things better, not just for you but for the little 'uns too. It's not you who's doing the EA, you're trying to deal with the fall out, you aren't to blame. I know that doesn't really help as your concern is dcs but you're doing the best you can. Our dcs do have us thank god, loving and thinking of them, trying to find a path through a jungle not of our making xx.

Thanks trying I just feel so guilty why did I not see what he was doing??

My Ds2 is not very happy at the moment. Angry and miserable &!it breaks my heart he is only 7 xx

I know, my dd has permanent stomach ache, I'm sure it's the stress. All I can think of is the slow but steady steps I'm trying to make. I hate it that I've left itr so long, but I guess it's hard changing one's own nature, and it's our non-confrontational, giving natures that the FWs hone in on and that's what makes it hard to move on for us. Don't forget that 50% of our dcs parentage is extra good and caring (that's us btw ) so they do have some stuff going for them, bless them. xx

PS my dcs are similar age. There is still a lot of time to heal, undo damage and move forwards. There is hope

Aw pony, that sounds horrible, I hope you have an ok weekend. Something you wrote twigged something in my memory though. When you said your fw was all 'what's wrong with him, why's he crying' about your child. When dd was a baby, and still now sometimes, if she wakes up crying or fussing, not sleeping (normal baby stuff) my fw would start moaning, why the Fuck is she like that, why the Fuck won't she sleep, and would even start saying shut up, shut up, shut up at her because of him needing his oh so precious sleep for work. Even when she was teething he was like this, if she hurts herself or get frustrated and angry he tells her to stop being pathetic, your (she) not even upset. He seems to have no empathy unless it is something he can clearly see like a cut or bruise. It is horrible

I know a lot of you dread the weekend, but for me it is the only time I get to do an hour or so of what I want. This is cause nsdh stays up late Friday and Saturday nights, so after spending the evening with him, as usual, I then go to bed and can read for a bit while he stays up, and mornings are peaceful as he gets up later than me and our dd. That's really bad right, and not normal...

trying, your poor DD, but better a little stomach ache now than a lifetime of damage, like you say. They'll thank you more for getting out than for staying. It's hard though, I know. I'm concerned about my DS1 at the moment, too, i think he's confused - he tells my NSDH that he loves him, he wants to spend time with him over me, which makes me feel awful that I'm thinking of breaking us up, yet he wont get up out of bed on a weekday morning if NSDH has stayed over, not until he has gone. You're exactly right though, we all seem to be people with a lot of empathy and heart - maybe all the things that our FWs are lacking, maybe they're using us to complete themselves.

Pulled, I know exactly what you mean. It breaks my heart. When DS2 was little, I mean days/weeks old, NSDH would come home from work and want to hold him, but then get annoyed because he was crying all evening (bit of colic). He'd sit on the sofa with him and get stressed because he wouldn't stop crying, swearing and getting wound up, and eventually give him to me. I'd stand up and walk the floor (which NSDH couldn't be bothered to do) and DS2 would settle relatively quickly - I kept telling him he needed to stand with him, but he wanted the newborn to fall in line with what he wanted to do. It's as if they are aggrieved at them (the babies) for upsetting them or for casting them in a bad light with their inability to settle them.
But you're right, your enjoyment of the weekend is still skewed by the fact that it doesn't involve contact with your FW.

And newbe - thinking bout you too, hope you're doing ok, although sounds as if you're having a rough time.

pony & trying the same here with asking "what's wrong with DS"...

NSDH has always prioritised his sleep over EVERYTHING. So when DS was born he would never get up in the night for him. I had awful SPD and couldn't walk properly for ages after the birth but I still had to do all the "standing" and "walking" to get baby DS settled.

In fact NSDH only started seeing to him at night (and getting him up in the morning) earlier this year (DS is nearly 5 now). It's the only concession he made to "working on our relationship".

However NSDH complains all the time. DS still doesn't sleep that well and is an early riser (around 6am). He hates getting up early and during the night and says it's my fault...

Oh bertie, what is it about these men that they are just all so ALIKE! Them and their precious sleep, ffs! But I guess it's just another manifestation of their 'everything is about me' attitude.

NSDH was vile to me during pregnancy if I disturbed his sleep through my pregnancy snoring. Said it was my responsibility to go and sleep somewhere else if I was snoring (as if I was supposed to know I was doing it while asleep ). But if I started the evening sleeping in another room he'd complain that I was pulling away from him... Aaaaaargh!!!!

That's awful about the SPD, I had it too in both pregnancies. NSDH was vile about that too.

Anyway, onwards and upwards to a lovely weekend with my NSDH, hahaha! [nurse the screens...]

I too find it amazing how similar all the fw's are. I was wondering how your fw treated you during pregnancy. Mine loved the scans, but when it came to the actual pregnancy he was so distant from it. He never felt or even wanted to feel our dd move. He never spoke to het, stoked my belly, nothing. He saw our dd kick one day, my whole bump moved, and he ran out of the room saying omg that's awfull

At the birth he was pretty crappy to... Though he was great with our dd as soon as she was born.

One other thing I find odd is that he never tells our dd he loves get, I tell her all the time. And he hates doing things for her that he doesn't like, I.e he won't read her a story, but he'll play with her. He won't do nursery rhymes or anything he thinks is 'silly' like dancing etc.

Pulled, I think the key to the similarities are the FW's underlying entitlement and beliefs. Think of all the different types of abusers outlined in Lundy's book, some might reject their partner's advances while others might be gods in the bedroom , but underneath they have shared problems with their thinking and with need to control.

My NSDH is different in some ways to yours - he loved feeling my belly, filmed the baby moving about like some demented alien, was very 'present' during the birth (and in fact wouldn't let me have my mum there as well because he wanted to be solely in control of me), wants to be very hands on with the kids, does a lot of playing with DS2.

However, he was still awful during my pregnancy; a lot of arguments, emotional, verbal and sometimes small amounts of physical abuse, told me I was attention-seeking because I needed tablets for a low iron count (amongst so many other things), would send me for a rest one minute then tell me I was being lazy the next. A lot of head-fuckery. So although they both seem at first glance to be very different, their end result of messing with our minds and being entitled to behave however they like is the same.

Anyone else got any insights into this similarity between FWs?

Am off to the house now for my weekend dose of being all wifely. Catch up with you all tomorrow or Monday. and all round.

pony I think your right with your observations about the fw's. I need to get the Lundy book at some point, but need to plan when as nsdh will question me as to what the money was for, so I'll prob buy it with some books for uni.

I've taken another tiny step, but it seemed like a massive one to me. I've told a close friend I'm leaving my nsdh, and she's being lovely and supportive. It's amazing to have one person not treat you like the evil bitch and to say to me 'if your not happy, you deserve to leave'. Going to see cab on Thursday, then will hopefully tell my mum the next week and get the ball rolling to leave.

Just me checking in as I'm home from my week away. Some highs (not involving NSDH of course) and some very deep lows (involving him). Too worn out to post on it now as it will be an epic post, but will do so later. And catch up on posts I've missed.

Just briefly read about EA experiences during pregnancy - NSDH was awful (it was one of the big red flags that made me realise his true nature). He barely even registered that I was pregnant in that he expected me to do everything I always did, he wouldn't come to the first scan as he 'couldn't' get time off work, so I had to go alone. He treated me like shit, which is bizarre as when he's been around other pregnant ladies both before and after my pregnancy, he treats them like fragile glass and is amazingly helpful. But not with me. He's the major reason I don't think I'll ever have another baby.

Hello to all.

Ok, here goes. Forgive me the long post. I kept a list of all the things that happened this week so I'll need to go through them. We've been away for the past week on hols with another couple we've known for years and our DD.

When we left in the morning in the car it was the usual massive stress from him - muttering and swearing under his breath over nothing in particular. This happens whenever we go away so I just did my best to ignore him - it's just his usual inability to cope under any kind of pressure. For some reason he packed the car with beer and fruit () and didn't like me asking why we needed to take so much. The car was full to bursting when we left.

So we get to the cottage we'd rented (which was in the middle of nowhere with no phone signal btw). NSDH and the guy from the other couple (an old friend of his) decide they want to get straight into drinking. Other girl (we get along very well) and me remind them that we have no food, and DD will need milk soon. I told NSDH that he had a choice - either stay at the cottage, look after DD and give her dinner, or go food shopping. The look on his face told me he wasn't happy at having to do either! He decides to go food shopping, so him and the guy-friend go off in the car, joking that they were going to go for a 'swift pint' as well. I asked them not to as DD would need milk soon and bed shortly after.

So they go. Girl-friend and me unpack, I give DD dinner, we play with him. 3 hours later - a good half-hour after DD's bedtime, NSDH and guy-friend come back. I never did find out if they went to a pub but the nearest supermarket wasn't that far off! Girl-friend and I are less than impressed as we had no food, DD was tired and hungry. We told the men that - and NSDH starts grumbling at me - "YOU havn't paid for anything yet" ( we'd been there all of a few hours). Then he presents me with a bottle of cheap diet coke like it was a gift - I thanked him but said I don't drink the cheap stuff, I only drink actual Coke (he knows that, and I wasn't ungrateful). So he throws his hands in the air and says "I don't know why I bother!" Knowing what he's like with money, it was obvious to me that he did it just to save himself a few pennies - I would have preferred him not to buy anything if that makes sense!

The following morning, he grudgingly does DD's breakfast when asked (). But he gave it to her when it was far too hot so she cried when trying to eat it, and he cut the fruit up too big so she was choking on it - I had to get a knife to chop it into smaller bits. He didn't like my telling him (as gently as I could) that he shouldn't have done either of those things - FFS he knows how to do her breakfast properly so why do this?! And tells our friends she's crying because she's 'frustrated'.

Sadly, the whole week was an exercise in the difference between our relationship and that of our friends' - also long-term but they don't have a kid. They do things for each other all the time and we don't. I know part of that is my failing, but I used to do things for NSDH and stopped after a few years (!) when I realised it wasn't reciprocated.

The first few days were ok, sadly my best days were when I spent the day with DD and girl-friend, and NSDH with guy-friend. I'm sorry to say we DTD for the first time in 6 months aswell - ladies, it was AWFUL. He was so paranoid that our friends would hear that at any squeak of bed or floorboard he would stop and make us change position. By the end of it I was massively turned off and just kept quiet until he decided we were being quiet enough for him to finish.

His only outburst mid-week was when DD knocked a cup of tea onto the floor. We were all cleaning it up when he started shouting at me - "FFS can't you look after her for 2 minutes!" I was so upset. That night NSDH and me went to a pub while our friends babysat, and I was grumpy with him. After a while he said "I'm sorry IF I offended you." I told him that wasn't an apology and I wasn't accepting it. But it made no actual difference to his behaviour.

During the week he would leave me struggling to carry bags and DD and just watch. If I got grumpy and asked him to help he'd make a big deal out of me being difficult and throwing 'hissy fits'. If she fell over he'd just watch her and make no effort to help her up - she's only 19 months old!

Him being his usual tightness with money, he complained at me on 3 occasions when I ordered myself something more expensive in a restaurant than he deemed necessary. The fact that our money is totally separate so has no effect on him didn't stop him, but again I'm used to this. He's tighter than a duck's arsehole. He didn't treat me ONCE all week, and only bought a cheap colouring book for DD all week.

But the worst worst worst came yesterday. We stayed in a part of the country that I know well, so I came up with a few ideas for places we could go to. It wasn't until the end of the week that I realised that my suggestions were being ignored and NSDH and guy-friend were deciding between them where we were going and what we'd do. The only days I did things I wanted to do was when girl-friend and me were without them.

So, I made a few suggestions for our last full day (yesterday). Planned them carefully so we wouldn't have to travel far etc. Find out that morning that again, the guys had decided on something different. I wasn't very impressed but tried to hide it, and I think they'd noticed. It was rainy, cold and windy so we ended up on a deserted beach. DD was cold, I was cold. We all stood there for a while on this beach until I suggested we call it a day and try somewhere else. NSDH and guy-friend then start 'exchanging looks' and muttering, and make a big deal out of deciding to do what I'd originally suggested but asking me first like I was an irritating princess throwing a hissy fit. . I was so upset and annoyed that when we got back in the car I told NSDH I didn't appreciate having the piss taken out of me like this. He claimed ignorance but went very quiet.

So we moved on to a seaside town. All was going ok until the subject of lunch came up. NSDH looked at a pub, decided it was too expensive so suggested we go buy pasties instead - he knows I don't like pasties so I said I'd go and get something else and join them in a minute. I went to a sandwich shop 3 doors away from the pasty shop, but when I came out they were all nowhere to be seen. I wandered around on my own for nearly 10 minutes, getting upset that they'd gone off without me, and eventually went back to the shop, sat on a bench outside and started eating. A few minutes later NSDH appears saying "THERE you are!". Turns out our friends had decided to walk further down and he'd gone with them and 'come back' to find me.

I admit, I saw red for a minute. I swore at him. . Told him I didn't like being abandoned and asked why no-one had waited for me. He started swearing back and did his 'dismissive wave' he does when he's angry (backhands the air to indicate he won't listen to me, he knows how much I feel belittled when he does that). And he storms off. After he'd gone I took myself off to a sunny spot where no-one was around and burst into tears.

I stayed there for a bit thinking about what to do now. When I'd calmed down I walked back into town and girl-friend texted me telling me where they were. I found them and NSDH turned his back on me. Our friends were very quiet, but DD was happily bombing around the place.