Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: 11

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Thanks Fool, your advice is amazing and well appreciated and very reassuring. I feel your nn is very innapropriate, you are def not a fool It's really useful to know all those facts. If I left to go into a shelter or into temp rented accom because I felt threatened ending it whilst living in same house, would this count against me legally in terms of getting back into family home, do you think?

fool - that's all amazing advice. Especially the advice about documenting it. I have about 30 pages of diary entries from our relationship, plus what I've written here, and as well as being a fantastic cathartic exercise it's all written down.

trying - I'm not sure, I can only tell you what my solicitor told me. If I'd left suddenly and gone to a shelter/refuge/temp accommodation (like my parents' house), I could still raise an occupation order to get the FW out and us back in. But if I was in temp accommodation such as my parents' house for a while, like weeks or months, that could count against me as I couldn't claim that my living situation was uncomfortable (because I was putting up with it for so long, even if it was completely unsatisfactory in the longer term). And also, although I had the option of raising an order to get him out, I wasn't guaranteed to get it and so I could be putting myself through anguish for nothing. However, that advice was likely quite personal to my situation, and I know that plenty of people have successfully gotten occupation orders. Have you spoken with a solicitor yet? My advice in that line is to take up the half-hr free interviews with at least three different ones - as well as foxing your FW's attempts to get a lawyer (since they can't represent him if they've even met with you I don't think, as one poster on Relationships found recently), you'll get a broader feel for who you like, who you trust, and whether any advice is conflicting - I was told a couple of things in my first interview, with a trainee, that I later had scoffed at by my tell-it-like-it-is-but-go-for-the-opposition's-throat solicitor.

I shall explain fool's name In the Beatles song of the same name, the fool is the one who sees the truth, and keeps his understanding despite all the naysayers around him. So quite appropriate :)

Posted by an ancient Babyboomer...

All is well here, still ploughing through paperwork sorting and cleaning every surface of the house following Ex's departure - hardly any cleaning was done by either of us since Feb, me because I was on strike, and him because ?? (after all he wanted us to sell the house)

On reflection, I think he wanted to make off with some cash and buy a house, leaving me to clean and prepare house for sale and show it etc all on my little own. It didn't happen that way - DCat and me are here and house is All Mine.

This is a bit 'all about me', I will reply better soon.

For those out the other side and looking back, do you still get blindsided by photos of your FW ex? I can't remember if I've asked this before but mine pops up having been mentioned by people I follow on twitter from time to time (this time in a news article, with photos) and like a mug I always click on it. The first time I felt like I'd been winded - this time I just looked at the (lovely) pictures and tried to remember all the shitty things he said and did to me, but I just wanted to ruffle his hair and kiss him . He was also an extra in a big film that's about to be released and so I keep seeing it on buses and it makes me think of him every time. How pathetic! However it was when he got back from filming that he behaved so badly that I should have ended it there and then, so I should just remind myself of that each time I see it, and think "lucky escape".

My work colleagues mention him occasionally, and I just have to join in the conversation and pretend like everything was fine between us when in reality I want to tell them what a nasty piece of work he is.

I still haven't actually spoken to him since we split up but I am dreading the day it happens and reckon I should think about putting as much distance as possible between us for a while.

SilverPussycat - I'm glad you and your Dcat are happy in the house, it's like a happy ending (kind of...).

Kernowgal, I felt like that about my very first serious relationship - even after it had ended, I was blindsided by anything that reminded me of him, from unexpected photos to music we both liked, etc. Still am a little, tbh.
But why not mention to your work colleagues, to save you feeling like you're having to hide it? I hid the break-up of me and DS1's dad from colleagues, didn't mention it until we'd been split for months, felt I couldn't have my break-up affect a big work project, but I think in the end it contributed to how bad I felt. I ended up having to be signed off work for a few weeks.
I think you should either unsubscribe from any mutual followers on Twitter or Facebook, or be v strict with yourself and not click on stuff. I know if it's there there temptation is too much, so put yourself out of harm's way. Or try to conjure up the bad times when you see his picture, not the good stuff. Remember why it's over. He's not your FW for nowt.

silver thank you for Beatles tidbit, very appropriate now you mention it! I like thinking of you and Dcat in your newly clean and empty-of-FW house; how blissful. I am sitting with my Dcat in my blissfully FW-free bedroom (sep rooms these days), with a hot choc, purring tiger, couple of books and my laptop. I can pretend it's a FW free house.... till I hear those treads on the stairs as he comes up to bed and wonder if this is the night he'll fling open my door and start throwing broadsides at me. At least I don't have to pretend to be interested in DTD anymore

Kerno I'm not out yet, so I can't offer my viewpoint from the afterwards scenario, but I am very sorry you're feeling such pain and sorrow.

Hilde sympathy xxx

Hilde, have your pity fest. You're entitled. But the fact that it's been 16 years is something else to use to gird yourself towards the task in hand. Don't let it reach 17. (or maybe not even 16 - there's still time... )

I had a DCat too, had her from a 5-week-old kitten until she was nearly 17 years old, but NSDH (before he was the DH) was allergic and I had to find her a new home. Being with him has been the only prolonged time in my life without a pet - grew up with cats and dogs, and even at university we had a couple of skanky cats. I think of my beautiful posh puss often, miss her, wonder if she's still purring like a train somewhere (given her age when I gave her away). If this 'working things out' with NSDH doesn't stick, there will be more pets in my life, that I can assure you all of.

Ah pony hold onto the thought of pets in your life again - funny how FWs can't tolerate them!

I going to get some kip, been browsing properties ;) Mewanwhile I'll look up that thread hilde, thanks and good idea re solicitors, pony, thanks. I am actually having second appt with one next week (part of my September New Dawn strategy ) but no harm in continuing to see other local ones and stymie FW!

Good night all xxx

Signing into the new thread...

I am still feeling very confused. I still don't know if there is EA or if we are just two very different people. I want to see a counsellor - I think I need to talk and talk, for weeks! I've found one nearby, but if I go there is the question of the cost (should talk to NSDH before spending that kind of money) and childcare (who will look after the LO?). I feel that if I bring this up with NSDH it will lead to a lot of awkward questions about why I want to go, and if I skirt the issue of HIM being the problem, he will say I should be able to talk to him about things that are worrying me.

So I don't know what to do next. Two recent events to share in an attempt to convince myself that there IS a problem: this weekend we spent lots of time in the car. He drives. Occasionally I suggest that I could: this weekend, his reply was: "Oh, but I'd really like to." Followed up, now I come to think of it, by various comments about how if I were driving we'd be several miles back. He drives fast: I spent most of the weekend fearing for my life, although we've not had an accident (to speak of) apart from the one in rural Africa in a deathtrap car. Anyway, that's not even the important thing - this is: he acknowledged that his driving "style" made me feel sick. And kept on doing it. Tbh, I'm surprised he thought of me enough to say that. I assumed he'd conveniently forgotten.

And the second: I was going to go for a cycle ride for half an hour by myself one day last week. The dcs were occupied, but then NSDH rushed out on an important errand, so my plan had to be delayed. That sounds bad, but I don't think he actually knew of my plan by then, so I think it was a coincidence. Anyway, later I went to ask him (he was working as usual) if he could look after the dcs while I went out then. He said, "Well, yes, that's fine," and when I pressed further, he clarified: "As long as they can look after themselves for that time, because I can't jump up to attend to them - I'm busy here." They are 8, 7, 5 and 2, ffs! So I stayed home. But it was important work he had to do. He finished it at about sunset. I don't have bike lights. I went out anyway for 10 minutes because it seemed ungrateful not to. So now I have all these suspicious thoughts about the timing of that, so that I couldn't enjoy myself, but I couldn't complain either, because I'd got what I wanted, hadn't I? I remember thinking in the past how strange it was that he always proclaimed he'd be on hand to help whenever I needed it, the problem was just that I didn't ask - and then when I did ask, there always seemed to be an emergency on at work. But how suspicious do I sound now?! Even if I start believing it, nobody else is going to!

See? Non-events, by the look of it. The stress of all this nothing is doin' my head in!! :(

Just checking in thanks Fool xx

Morning all and thanks fool for the new thread.

I went to ask him (he was working as usual) if he could look after the dcs while I went out then. He said, "Well, yes, that's fine,"

wellies if you were a bit more assertive and believed that you have a right/need for exercise and time to yourself then at that point you would have pulled on your helmet and shot out the door on your bike. Instead being a sweet and reasonable person you waited for "clarity" and talked yourself out of your time out. You sound like me, unselfish and considerate and putting your own needs last. But that leads to resentment and festering anger. I wish I had been a bit more selfish and a bit less accommodating with my H. I gave an inch and he took a mile because he could.

Have to post and run as dentist calls...

wellies, what I thought of when reading your post was 'death by a thousand cuts' - all very small, insignificant even, but they keep coming and being added to, until it's a serious problem for you. Or putting a frog in boiling water that he jumps out of immediately versus putting a frog in cold water and turning up the heat - the frog doesn't notice the small increases in temperature and stays, and gets boiled.

Small issues like this in a relationship can be brushed off if they are the exception rather than the norm. For you it's the norm, it's constantly happening. On their own they are nothing, but put together they paint a picture of a partner who doesn't care enough about you to drive more slowly, and doesn't care enough to look after his own kids for half an hour. He could have made an arrangement with you to put aside his work, or say he realised you don't have lights so he'll get you some. Or something that gave you the impression that he thought of you in any way at all, rather than just thinking about himself, what he wants to do (drive fast) and what he needs to do (get his work done at any cost).

It is EA, but it's so subtle that you can drive yourself mad with it, wondering if you're making too much of it. Like Lemon said, you need to act for yourself more - 'I'm going out for a bike ride. I realise you're working, but I need you to keep an eye on the kids as well.' And then go.

Could you talk to the counsellor about the issue of cost? Mine has checked that I'm ok to pay what she charges, intimating that if I was struggling she'd reduce it, and she suggested that my NSDH asked his counsellor to negotiate a lower rate. They can only say no. And if not, maybe you could go every two weeks so it's not so much money and you don't have to 'declare' it to NSDH. Could a friend/relative look after your LO for just a couple of hours every two weeks? I know it's not always possible though, hope you can find a way to go because I think you'd benefit.

If you leave the house due to domestic abuse and go into temporary accommodation then the solicitor/you can apply to the court for an occupation order.An occupation order regulates who can live in the family home, and can also restrict your abuser from entering the surrounding area. If you do not feel safe continuing to live with your partner, or if you have left home because of abuse, but want to return and exclude your abuser, you may want to apply for an occupation order.

In order for you to apply for one of these orders you must be an 'associated person'. This means you and your partner or ex-partner must be related or associated with each other in one of the following ways:

You are or have been married to each other.
You are or have been in a civil partnership with each other;
You are cohabitants or former cohabitants (including same sex couples)
You live or have lived in the same household.
You are relatives.
You have formally agreed to marry each other (even if that agreement has now ended).
You have a child together.
Although not living together, you are in an ?intimate relationship of significant duration?.
You are both involved in the same family proceedings (e.g. divorce or child contact).

Hi all, new to all this 'thread' business. i posted on another page and was sent this link. I think i am suffering emotional abuse. Will he change or shall i leave him? this is my battle at the moment. my boys love their dad so much but my eldest is now realising that mummy isn't very happy and is always angry and in tears. Husband went to work at 3am this morning, no milk in the house and he kindly went to the garage to get some and bought it back so me and the boys had milk for the morning. i text him to say thanks. He replied 'pi** off', 'not interested'. called him and he said it was a joke as i had text that exact same wording to him the day before when he told me we were going to have an early night. his wording of the early night was more blunt.

Hi Tamara

It's always hard to see the abuse at first and most of us have felt that we were either mad or making too much of something that someone else would cope with. Usually because that is what we are constantly told.

Some of us have left our abusive relationship, some are still in. We are all here for each other and it is a good place to get some perspective and support.

Hope the links above help.

For those with children have a look at this thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1561505-Why-Do-They-Do-That-abusive-adult-child take a box of tissues with you. Springy's pain is palpable and real. She took the brave decision to get out of an abusive relationship but she still sees the results in her boy.......

I'm not scaremongering. We need to see the truth. This could be me in 10 years time.

I could've been more assertive, but I know it'd be the dcs who would suffer. DC3 would've pounced on DC4 at some point, and DC1 and 2 would yell at him to get off and tried to help but without much success. Then NSDH would finally make an appearance and yell at them all indiscriminately to be quiet and stop fighting ie put his work first. So assertiveness is great for me and bad for the kids. I have to put them first. (Plus, he'd then stay and play for 2 minutes after yelling and then ONLY tell me about how he put aside his work to play with them for a bit. )

I think I can be assertive about the counselling, though - funny I hadn't thought of that! Just say I'm doing it. I'm looking through our finances to see what we can afford - I'm sure we CAN afford it, but NSDH would say we couldn't because we must prioritise putting in an ensuite bathroom, painting every room of the house etc etc.

Right, have sent off an email to the counsellor. Go me! :o

yes go you!!! [pom poms waving]

Hi,
I've come from the thread on "when is the right time to leave?"
I could do with some advice about detaching (from dp).
Only read this page, my story is clearly not as awful as some of you poor people are experiencing, so I don't want to detract from the lovely support you are receiving. I am sorry to hijack.
But I could really do with help on detaching. It's Day 6 of literally not communicating AT ALL with each other following a middle-of-the-night-row.
I can feel his silent resentment and seething anger towards me, and I'm waiting for the next big blow-up when he can't contain his emotions any longer.
How do I glide effortlessly around the house in a apparent oblivious cloud of care-free harmony?
How can I stop the feelings of sadness, and the ones of little self-worth?
Thank you.