Just had a Big Talk with dh about his drinking and other issues.

[bushymcbush]

I told him that if he chooses to continue drinking we will have to split up because I choose to no longer live my life in misery.

We've been here before and he usually makes a token effort to cut down (never stop altogether ) for a short time - a couple of weeks maybe - then reverts to drinking at least a bottle of wine by himself every night. Sometimes more.

Before some of you tell me that it's not that much and what's the problem, I should add that he does this even though we have very little money coming in right now and 2 dc to support. He really struggles to not drink. I don't want to spend time with him when he is drinking and I don't want to have sex with him when he is drinking, so it's a massive barrier to us enjoying our relationship. I no longer go back downstairs after putting the dc to bed but prefer to stay upstairs in 'my' space while he remains downstairs with his wine in front of the telly in 'his' space. That's not a marriage I can bear to be in any longer.

Other issue is his being out of work and doing almost nothing to get work. He has had some freelance stuff this month but he didn't seek it out, it came to him. We desperately need him to be earning money or we may not be able to put food on the table next month (yet he still spends minimum £50 week on booze rather than save for next month).

I suggested to him that the two things (drinking and lack of motivation / direction) might be linked but he doesn't think they are. To be fair, he has been drinking like this for 20 years (I know, I was stupid for marrying him and irresponsible for having children with him - please don't say it, it's never that simple and I can't change that now) but he had plenty of work until 2 years ago. But now the work he does has dwindled to nothing (because of the industry he is in) he just sits and waits for something to happen and complains that he doesn't know what he wants to do with his life. In 6 months he has applied for 3 jobs. Not bloody good enough.

So he said tonight he will 'do something about' the drinking and I suggested he needs some kind of help with that or we'll be back at square one very soon and I won't go back to square one again.

He said he wont drink tomorrow night and we'll talk again.

I'm posting this as a record for myself of what's happening because I'm determined that this time, things will get properly and permanently sorted or its the end of the road. Also, I'm posting for hand holding and support, and to ask you to kick me up the arse if I let things slide. I don't want to live like this any more and I don't want my dd's growing up with it either.

If you've read this far, thank you.

bushy, your 'two nights at the weekend' deal was always open to this kind of challenge, I'm afraid. And today he might manufacture a row so that he has a justification to drink tonight.

The trouble is, he knows you won't let things fall apart, whatever he does. Your determination to try and fix your marriage on your own is testament to that. He won't work - your dad pays the mortgage. Your solution. He won't take care of the children - you do it, 24*7. Your solution.

Of course he wants you to be loving and supportive, because then he doesn't have to be. What would he say if you asked him to be the same? What are his solutions to these problems?

Can you see the massive gulf between what is happening and what you think is happening? The guy called you a cunt and now you're worrying about being cold-hearted? You have the right to happiness and respect, to live peacefully and to enjoy the days as they go by. It isn't wrong to want what you want. You don't have to have a solution for everything.

For me, his refusal to get a job - any job - is the worst thing of all.

That to me is worse than the drinking.

What tribpot stated earlier.

You;re keeping think sinking ship afloat and he knows it as well. He will not allow you to fail; he can fail though and he has no solutions.

No you are not a cold hearted cow at all. Instead you are a woman mired in her H's alcoholism. You are still well and truly stuck on the merry go around as is he. Again most of your post is about him; it all revolves around the alcoholic.

He does not care about work, family, you or even himself. All he is wondering is where the next drink is going to come from. His primary relationship is with drink and has been for many years now; you alone are not going to change that mindset of his.

You do realise as well that alcohol is a depressant and he's likely self medicating his moods with alcohol.

That 3 act play I put up on this thread earlier, you need to read that again because you're in that as much as he is. Your Dad is also doing his bit here in enabling by paying the mortgage.

He doesn't want you to be supportive, he wants you to shut up and let him get on and do whatever the hell he wants to do.

Just like an addict needs to hit rock bottom before they will admit they need help, your DH doesn't NEED to do anything, because he hasn't hit rock bottom. He still has a home, is fed, mortgage paid for, can play at being a dad knowing you will do all the tough parenting, pretend to moderate his drinking to keep you quiet.

You said you don't know where he'd go if you kicked him out. So what? Why is it your problem? It's HIS problem. If he doesn't respect you and your home enough to stop this behaviour, then he doesn't deserve your concern.

Said he feels like everything is falling to pieces. Feels he is "a big fat zero"

Yet still not prepared to do anything about it?

I'm trying to feel sympathetic and find it in me to be loving and supportive (which he said he wants me to be)

Is he being loving and supportive of you? This man is all take, take, take.

But he can only take as long as you keep giving. Where are your boundaries, bushy, what is your rock bottom? Lots of posters have asked you this but you haven't responded.

He is begining to sound abusive as well as addicted now. He is blaming you for everything.

Do you know what the really sad thing is?

He will not change until he has to.

When his choices impact negatively enough on him he will take stock.

He will say to himself, my life is shit. My wife has left me, I am homeless, I have no job and no money. And I brought it all on myself by drinking. I am an addict. I cannot drink 'normally'. I have chosen my addiction over everything else in my life. Enough is enough. It stops here. Today. Right now.

And then, and only then, when he is ready, when he makes that realisation for himself, he will walk into his gp, or a&e or a homelss advisory service, or citizens advice, or aa, or the samaritans and ask for help.

And he will get help. There is so much support out there just waiting for him. He may have to dig around to get one that works for him. He may have to fail and try again and try harder, and really mean it. But he will do it himself. He will find the help, make his own appointments, take his medication, turn up for meetings. He will do whatever he needs to do to change his life.

This could happen for him this year, or next year. But one thing is certain. As long as you and your df enable him, it won't happen at all. He will not try to change because he has no reason to.

You mother him. Your df fathers him. Between you, you are indulging and spoiling him. He does not have to face consequences of his actions (or lack of them), he does not take responsibility (blaming you) he does not provide for his children.

The sad thing is, that in trying to hold your marriage together, you are doing the exact opposite of helping him.

The sad thing is, that you are preventing him from healing.

The most loving and supportive thing you could do would be to leave him to face the consequences of his behaviour. It seems cruel but it's not. It's kind.

It's the only way to help him.

Reading this post i must sympathise with OP but the op's dh is getting a bit of a pounding. Clearly the man has problems but I think some people on here are clearly out to break up a marriage. what happened to better for worse, richer for poorer? does this man still love you bushy? before you decide to walk out/ kick him out, does he have ANY redeeming features? has he ever hit you? do you infact still love him? does he love his children? A drunk, no job, a wife threatening to leave him. I think he's probably at rock bottom and needs help from the person who is closest to him. call me old fashioned but there are 2 sides to every story

You don't have to hit someone to be abusive.

radiatess, the point you're making was referred to up thread as well. I can assure you, no-one on this thread wishes to break up a marriage. But we have all experienced alcoholism in different ways and see more clearly than the OP can that until and unless the DH is ready to accept a need to change the situation cannot significantly improve.

If you're not familiar with the problems of co-dependence and family members caught up in alcoholism, there are some links to books and other resources up thread that you may find useful.

bushy has spoken at length about her DH's redeeming qualities. I don't think anyone thinks he is a bad person, but he is bad for her for now. A separation need not be permanent. But from the information on this thread my feeling - which bushy is free to ignore if she chooses - is that Mr bushy cannot be helped by anyone else right now.

Alcoholism is not a disease of choice in the way that non-addicts mean the word. But only the addict can choose to fight it.

We all wish bushy the best; she has set herself a target and is using this thread as a diary on that journey.

Btw I think some posters, including the OP, may be struggling with the idea that someone can be an alcoholic and yet routinely abstain from alcohol. This is understandable.

Bushy how long is your father prepared to pay your mortgage for?

Perhaps having an end date to that might focus him?

Everyone who has said that you are enabling him are right, but its very hard to see it when you're doing it because it feels natural to look after the other person. But any relationship needs give and take, when one person takes all the time the other person begins to resent them.

I told my ex that he needed to move out, I'd support him as a friend but that I couldn't say if we'd have a marriage until I could see him for the person he really was.

He turned out to be a bigger fuckwit sober than drunk unfortunately

Btw I think some posters, including the OP, may be struggling with the idea that someone can be an alcoholic and yet routinely abstain from alcohol. This is understandable.

One of my DSis was classified as 'an abuser of alcohol' rather than an alcoholic. In layman terms, that's still an alcoholic, but medically it isn't because she didn't suffer any withdrawal symptoms when she was without alcohol for a week in one of their units.

The damage is still just as bad, because she drinks to excess whenever she feels that everything is getting too much, which is pretty much every day.

There are no guarantees re alcoholism; he could lose everything and still drink afterwards.

I don't think my bushy is a "bad" person either but his primary relationship is with alcohol. That will not change unless he himself wants to face up to his alcoholism properly - and that process will also have to be done without bushy by his side. In the meantime the merry go around of alcoholism continues; they are all playing a part here.

Alcohol is indeed a cruel mistress.

Wow, your father is literally subsidizing his drinking now. He must be so relieved that he can now afford his alcohol without any fear of losing his home.

He knows you will stick by him, he can be an alcoholic, he can have no work, he be lazy and foul, hit your children, and there you are.

What will it take for you to stop enabling him?

For me the worst thing is the way he tried to justify hitting your DD. He justifies drinking, not seeking help with drinking, not seeking work, not being good to you and criticising you, drinking when in sole charge of DC, hitting his DC.........

The other awful thing is the way you are still trying to justify staying with him.

No alcohol in the Bushy house tonight.

Me and the DC visited my DF and DstepM today. I had a long chat with them and asked if they would help me to rent a place for me and DC until I get back on my feet financially. They said yes.

Then I come home to find DH has been doing DIY, laundry, hoovering, and job-hunting. Says he's going to the jobcentre tomorrow. Also running around after me, bringing me drinks etc.

WTF? My head is messed up.

It's not surprising he's noticed his subsidised lifestyle is at risk, bushy! And in fairness, perhaps he feels genuinely remorseful about what he's said.

Here's hoping he pull his finger out and gets himself to the job centre tomorrow. At least now you know you have options if the new-found enthusiasm doesn't last.

Clearly he does love you then bushy and doesn't want you to go. A turning point maybe. But do you still love him?

But is it too little too late bushy?

The thing is, whilst he is saying the right things, his actions will show whether he is really determined to change.

You have lots of concerns, not just his drinking and until now he has done sweet fa about it. He has claimed he is depressed, etc. but all of a sudden that doesn't matter? All of a sudden he can find work?

It's my guess that he's realised that he's pushed too far this time and he's just reeling you back in. That he won't find a job that's 'right for him' but will insist that he's trying and 'what more do you want', etc. This will keep you on the merry go round for a few more months.

What is interesting Bushy - do you notice how he has become more proactive now that he sees a real risk of losing you. This is what I was talking about above. Once you stop enabling, he will start helping himself. He's only at the talking about doing it stage at the moment but if you stay strong and continue your search for someone else to live with the dcs, you might see his talk turn into action.

Bushy. Set a date in your mind where if things haven't changed, you get yourself out. Also whilst I agree with alcoholics needing to hit rock bottom, sometimes it just doesn't make a difference.

My stbxh was a heavy weed smoker and drank 4-6 cans and/or a bottle of cider a night. Eight years I wasted trying to get him to stop. Finally I threw him out. He still didn't stop. We have four kids together.

I also just split up with my DP of a year, ultimately because of drinking. IME alcoholics will only stop and stay stopped if they really do want to, regardless of how much support they receive.

I admire you for sticking it out with him, just don't be dragged down with him. He doesn't sound to me like he really does want to stop best of luck x

bushy - Send him to the GP. There is a drug that you should make sure he takes, which will make him very sick if he drinks a drop of alcohol.

If he is serious about this, he will do it. If not, start packing. Good luck.

Cote - even I wouldn't take antabuse and I've stopped drinking completely. I don't think Mr bushy is a candidate for it. Forcing him to stop drinking isn't the answer, even if it were possible.

My FIL was given this drug early on in his alcoholism, while he still had a job and were reasonably able to function in work, etc. It did not work. So MIL ended up doing night shifts in Tescos every 7 days a week to feed the family. She could not work days, as she still had to be in the house and available for the children, as fil could not be trusted to look after them.

He died from liver failure aged 55.

Antabuse relies on the person taking the medicine every day. If they want to drink, they can just not take it, so that on it's own won't stop him. He has to want to stop before any treatment will work.