Do most married men tell the same stories to the OW?

[Ormiriathomimus]

I am still in the stage of obsessively googling and reading about affairs since the discovery of DH's affair. It will pass but at the moment it's like peeling a scab Painful but satisfying.

I have found some OW forums - and once i managed to stop frothing at the mouth at some of the things I read, I realised that most of them had been told 'my wife doesn't understand me/want sex/love me/ talk to me' etc etc and 'I'm only staying because I don't want to hurt her/hurt my kids' blah blah de blah! And what is more so many of the posters appeared to have swallowed the stories hook, line and sinker.

This has the knock on effect of making the OW angry and frustrated when the man chooses to go back to/not leave his wife - why would he when shes so fat/stupid/bad-tempered etc and I'm so much better?

Are there really so many unsatisfactory, hopeless marriages out there and awful wives? IME there aren't. There are marriages (most of them) that aren't perfect, but most of them have very happy times too. I only know of one without any saving graces (and she's scared to leave).

In which case why do so many OW fall for it?

Because they want to.
Sad but true.

Oh dear.

I eventually left XW.
She later discovered I'd had an affair for quite a long time.

I'd ended the affair, and tried to be the good husband, but went back to always in the wrong, never respected. [XW was not SAHM and worked shift, so childcare, cleaning, cooking was shared since long before marriage]

I said XW didn't want sex, wouldn't talk. That was true. In the end she and I argued so much that I thought I was never going to cope, and I'd make my kids miserable. XW got the house and I paid generous maintenance for the children. Less generous after she stuck me for ancillary relief and ended up having to pay me; so went to CSA. Who told me to pay less. 15 years later I still see my adult children who regularly come and stay with me and OW/DW

A couple of months after I left, OW and I moved in, and OW is now DW and has been for over 10 years.

So yes, there are some crap marriages out there, and yes, some men do leave to go to OW, because some women are just bad buggers.

I'm sure that is true. But not all of them. Surely. It seems to be a perennial refrain for so many men who have affairs

Onemorechap how did you think you could be a good husband after having an affair? How could you expect any respect from your XW? You obviously have no clue how much pain and suffering you caused her by cheating on her.

If the wives are really that bad why dont the husbands divorce them first then find another woman when they are free and single?

The truth is that they only say all that stuff to justify their actions and to ease their own guilt. And all these OW are naive enough to believe it.

Empirically, most marriages are unhappy. They must be. About half end in divorce even among the falling number confident enough to go ahead and get married in the first place.

If half of even those people get divorced, there must be many more where people would get divorced but can't afford to. Or are frightened to, or think that being abused in a marriage is their own fault. Or the husband is gay and stays married sooner than come out.

The most noticeable thing about the posts in this particular forum is that there appear to be a lot of women unwittingly married to complete strangers. They have affairs, they're secretly gay, they're secretly in hideous debt, they see prostitutes, but until all that came out they were great husbands. Right.

Perhaps it's the same for the men.

Another noticeable thing is that the 40/50 something women here are notably not bothered about getting married / remarried. Having tried it, the order of preference is good man, no man, crap man.

10, 12 years ago I had a friend who has spent the whole time since then waiting for her older married man to leave his wife. There was always some reason it couldn't happen yet. His job, his kids. She used to defend him angrily. She said he'd always been completely straight with her. A mutual male friend of ours said yeah, either he's always been completely straight with you - or he's very good at what he does.

She never forgave us, stopped talking to us and she's still waiting.

To the OP, yes, I would say most liars lie to most people most of the time until it stops working.

"To the OP, yes, I would say most liars lie to most people most of the time until it stops working" Hmm.. I guess so.

From observing my own (now ended)marriage, and listening to friends and colleagues etc over the years, I think men are not keen on tipping the status quo. They'll stay in relationships that they say aren't good or where they really are not happy, for reasons I don't understand. Women seem to find poor relationships less tolerable and decide to leave and start afresh, rather than stick around but find a diversion on the side.
Men seem to be able to put different things in different boxes in their heads.

I have a very close male friend who has been cheating on his wife for the last decade. He left the marital home (and his young DC) twice to be with OW. But he kept returning, meanwhile keeping OW on the side. He's never given OW up for longer than two or three months. He says he is deeply in love with her and only went back to his wife 'for the kids' and because he feels he 'ought to be there'. His wife is like 'the mother of his kids' and his OW is like his 'deep passion'. It makes me sick to write it...
OW meanwhile does keep taking him back. Why? He must be feeding her alsorts of bullshit. I've met her. She's an attractive and intelligent woman who doesn't appear to be vindictive or an intentional homewrecker.

OTOH why does his wife keep letting him come back?

Being lifelong friends (30+ years) with someone like him has made me question what I know about people. I thought I knew him inside out but all of this now makes me concerned about how many lies he's told me and our other friends over the years. I no longer consider him a good friend and try not to talk to him very often any more.

Not sure what point I'm trying to make, sorry OP. I haven't got any answers.

"I'd ended the affair, and tried to be the good husband, but went back to always in the wrong, never respected"

I must admit I'm struggling to keep my respect for DH atm. It's hard when he's done something so lacking in respect for me. Did you honestly expect an affair to increase her respect for you? I am working on it and thankfully so is her. But if I honestly beleived he had said any of those things to OW I think I'd give up now. He says he didn't. I am choosing to beleive him.

Re unhappy marriages elizabeth - I suspect that marriages fail mostly because people don't know what marriage is any more. They want it to be what is isn't and was never designed to be. Perhaps I should have said 'long-term exclusive relationships' rather than marriages. But the point remains - it takes hard work from both parties and that has to be fuelled by love and respect not just passion and romance.

Onemorechap - perhaps you would have been respected more had you not lied and deceived your xw, perhaps she was aware of your infidelities?

The thing with forums, and conversations between a man and his OW is that there is only ever 1 side of the story - its the nature of the scenario.
Add to that the vested interest of a cheat to justify his behaviour and you are never hearing a balanced or even handed version of the truth.
I always like this comment I once heard - the only rational thing about humans is that they are irrational

and I'm the same as you Orm although I haven't seen the OW sites you refer to, I look more into the why do men have affairs sites. Dp told me he didn't talk to the Owomen much about me, I do know he said to one that we didn't see much of eachother and didn't talk so much, that's because you were sitting in a pub with her rather than being at home with me face palm

don't look gravy - unless you want your blood pressure to go off the scale I know why Dh did what he did. He has been quite straightforward about that. And he's here, on side, and I can ask him. It's good to try to understand what was going through her head. But actually I started off looking at websites that offered advice about infidelity and happened across some OW/OM forums too.

Kaykat Mon 20-Aug-12 15:13:01
Onemorechap how did you think you could be a good husband after having an affair?

I had no particular idea. I was in a loveless marriage, with two young children and I was trying "to do the right thing". She wasn't.

How could you expect any respect from your XW? You obviously have no clue how much pain and suffering you caused her by cheating on her.

What? I'd left her before she discovered I had been having an affair. Perhaps I have no clue as to how much hurt I caused her by cheating on her after I left. I do know how much hurt she caused me while I was with her and how eveil she was trying to prevent my access to the children.

If the wives are really that bad why dont the husbands divorce them first then find another woman when they are free and single?

I did. I left her, and asked for a divorce. She went to her lawyer and said she was going to go for me on adultery... and found out that whatever the reason it made no difference.

The truth is that they only say all that stuff to justify their actions and to ease their own guilt.

Except when it is the truth.

And all these OW are naive enough to believe it.

... and some of them do get the men who left their XW.

Most men probably go back to the wives as their girlfrinds won't do their cooking, cleaning, washing etc... I am sure a lot do go back for the children as they know that they won't get to see their children as often as they would like and many spiteful ex-wives would use their childdren as a weapon and prevent the ex husband from seeing them. In addition men generally tend to have to give up the marital home and find it hard to manage financially if they have to pay to run two households (their own new home and the ex marital home)

Yes got to admit it would be enlightening probably to understand what goes through their minds but can fully appreciate how angry those kind of sites could make you feel being on the receiving end of the betrayal.

Dp has talked so much about what he did although I still struggle to understand at times, he's not the person I thought he was, obviously this saddens him, the trust has gone, things will never be the same but I do still love him, we are trying to work through it, I have a good few weeks although I know I'm still riding the waves and that by this time next week things could be so different as I'm still so very fragile emotionally and little things can trigger deep set awful feelings again

OneMoreChap you seem to blame your wife for the failure of your marriage but did you actually put any effort in to try and make it work. You say your ex wife did not want sex but So many men wonder why their wife does not want sex with them but women need much more than just a quick grope to get in the mood. Did you try to make her feel loved, appreciated and sexy?

Looksgoodingravy Mon 20-Aug-12 15:58:16
Onemorechap - perhaps you would have been respected more had you not lied and deceived your xw, perhaps she was aware of your infidelities?

Nope. Not ever.
She denigrated everything I did.
She would rather spend time with her dad than her husband
I was, I think I've said elsewhere, probably a rebound guy. We went out, we lived together for a while, buying a house. Lots of her friends were getting married, I loved her - and thought she'd change once she'd seen my commitment. She didn't; she got much worse.

I was with her for 2 years before we got married, then 4 years till child one then another 2 till child two. Left 5 years after that. We both worked. I paid all the house, all the bills; she was a ... princess who liked nice clothes and had bills for that. I worked 6 nights a week for years to cover the mortgage. Later, when I was working 50 hours a week, I also managed a pub bar 2 nights a week, because we didn't have enough money as the mortgage had gone up. She thought it funny to employ a cleaner, who she paid more than I earned in the pub and got child 1 not to tell me.

Yeah right. Loads of respect.

Oh yes, Sex. I was allowed it as a tip after we were married (oddly, before that it was mutually enjoyed; but maybe something changed). I went months without sleeping with her. We had sex 3 times between C1 and C2. On the holiday where she got pregnant with C2. Masturbation? "Do that in the toilet if you must".

Respect?

I respected myself by leaving in the end. I ended up with a woman who loves me, cares for me and my kids, with whom I've been with for 15 years...

Men aren't always wrong. Women aren't always right.

Onemorechap - you say that you left your XW before she found out you had been having an affair but that affair would have made you distant within the marriage, you weren't fully committed to your XW during this time and I'm sure she would have felt this distance from you or she may even have suspected something, lots of us on MN who have gone through this have suspected long before.

Sorry x post, will come back later.

Crinkle77 Mon 20-Aug-12 16:22:07
OneMoreChap you seem to blame your wife for the failure of your marriage but did you actually put any effort in to try and make it work.

Crossposted. Oh yes.

There are different kinds of affairs though. Sometimes the cheating partner is not desperately unhappy in the marriage, often they are. It does seem that men, more so than women, find it impossible to leave without having an affair. I don't know why that is, but the idea that all men who are having affairs are just heartless philandering shits who haven't tried to fix their marriages is not true. I couldn't agree more that what they should do is leave first, but they don't/can't for some reason.

My husband was desperately unhappy in our marriage (as was I). It didn't occur to me to cheat, but it did to him (he didn't, but got close to attempting to) and if he had told all that stuff to an OW, it would've absolutely been true. He also would never have initiated the split which I did and probably would've stayed for years and years doing that.

My sister cheated numerous times on her first husband, left him for someone she was seeing and has been with him for 15 years without so much as looking at anyone else since. My FIL had an affair and left my MIL after nearly 40 years. He had been unhappy and wanted to leave probably 30 years before, but they 'stayed together for the kids' who were brought up in a cold loveless marriage and she found herself single at 64. Very sad, but many people prefer denial over facing the facts of their marriage and think if they keep ploughing on it will be OK.

No real advice but is there REALLY OW forums?

link please

loveshack is one with an OW forum.

I read their emails long after the event. Came upon them accidentally in old computer.

Apparently I'd never loved him, I was selfish, spent too much money, had no ambition, lack of sex.

Told her he wasn't in love with me, just loved me as the mother of his children. I was mad (of course), they were both unlucky creatures battling the world together.

I didn't find any explanation to her about how I managed to have another baby whilst they were together, in this 'loveless and sexless' marriage. She seemed to believe everything he said, quite willingly.

Women choose to beleive what they want to beleive when it comes to relationships ime.
and that goes for wives and ow