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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Do most married men tell the same stories to the OW?

321 replies

Ormiriathomimus · 20/08/2012 14:33

I am still in the stage of obsessively googling and reading about affairs since the discovery of DH's affair. It will pass but at the moment it's like peeling a scab Grin Painful but satisfying.

I have found some OW forums - and once i managed to stop frothing at the mouth at some of the things I read, I realised that most of them had been told 'my wife doesn't understand me/want sex/love me/ talk to me' etc etc and 'I'm only staying because I don't want to hurt her/hurt my kids' blah blah de blah! And what is more so many of the posters appeared to have swallowed the stories hook, line and sinker.

This has the knock on effect of making the OW angry and frustrated when the man chooses to go back to/not leave his wife - why would he when shes so fat/stupid/bad-tempered etc and I'm so much better?

Are there really so many unsatisfactory, hopeless marriages out there and awful wives? IME there aren't. There are marriages (most of them) that aren't perfect, but most of them have very happy times too. I only know of one without any saving graces (and she's scared to leave).

In which case why do so many OW fall for it?

OP posts:
ChickaChicka · 20/08/2012 22:52

Each wife has suspicions if their DH is cheating on them.
I suppose men do too, but a bit slow to pick up.

Its not easy to have an affair. The guilt recks you. But there are always reasons and no one shoud judge if you dont know what happened between two persons and the reasons that lead them to it.

at the end of the day, if someone is having an affair with someone, they will do so regardless of what OM/OW used to "trap" them. Generally women dont want to hear that OM wants them because the wife isnt doing the laundry/making him dinner. Massive mood killer!

ChickaChicka · 20/08/2012 22:55

With me, without wanting to say too much, DH refused to move abroad when i got a job offer in the middle east. So, i was lonely, upset in a foreign country with no DH as he said he would miss his friends if he left and found a shoulder to cry on. I didnt actively go out to cheat. In my opinion, when affairs start because you are relying on someone emotinoally, it is hard to leave them even when things are ok between your partners.

Fairenuff · 20/08/2012 22:56

Chicka how would your dh feel if he knew that you were cheating on him? I know you have said that he would leave you but nothing about how hurt, angry, devastated he would feel. I wonder if you could put that into words because the way you talk about him seems very detached and clinical. Not emotional at all.

Would he cry do you think? Would his world crumble. Would everything he thought he knew be a big, horrible mess? Does any of that bother you?

Abitwobblynow · 20/08/2012 22:58

Thanks for that ad. Elizabeth, thanks for the reply. I love a brain stretcher!

I think aurynne gets the comment of the evening. Yup.

And, even though I am a betrayed wife, I kind of get Chicka not that I approve. Because there is no more emotionally lazy creature than a husband you can kind of tell that if Mr Chicka got off his emotional arse and made the effort to become a rounded human being Chicka would love him to death but it ain't going to happen.

Chicka I beg you to desist. You will get found out. Kick his ass one more time.

ChickaChicka · 20/08/2012 23:01

His world would crumble. But why think about it? I dont think of OM a lot. I will never leave DH, if he wanted to leave if he found out i would beg him not to. And would stop seeing OM. But it would never happen as in his own words, he trusts me too much to do such a thing.

ChickaChicka · 20/08/2012 23:03

Sometimes i think it would be good if he found out just to get a reaction as he is so passive.

Fairenuff · 20/08/2012 23:08

Chicka you sound really messed up, I feel sad for you.

aurynne · 21/08/2012 02:25

ChikaChika: "Sometimes i think it would be good if he found out just to get a reaction as he is so passive."

Yes, wouldn't it be great that you could witness his grief, desperation and misery at being betrayed by the woman he loves, just to get a reaction off him...

This must be the most fucked-up comment I have read in MumsNet...

LostMyIdentityAlongTheWay · 21/08/2012 07:35

auryne although I get where your comment comes from, walk a mile in chickas shoes before saying it. I don't think she should be an adulteress, let's call it what it is.

But read her posts. Her DH chose his MATES over her??? I read what she writes and see passivity, selfishness and no attempt by him to work ay their relationship.

I'd say its an unhappy marriage and I understand her comment to mean

'please let something happen to force the situation because I can't face initiating it*. I really feel for her

runamile · 21/08/2012 08:50

I think men are often telling the truth when they use 'the script.' When my ex finally left in January, I remember saying how bad do things have to get before one partner leaves? If my ex had met someone in the last two years of the relationship he might have said:

  1. My wife and I sleep in separate rooms (yes thank god, peace at last)
  2. We hardly ever have sex, she doesn't initiate it (true, I was so angry and resentful towards him because of his behaviour, I coudn't feel loving and affectionate)
  3. She is not a home maker and the house is a tip (I was so busy working full time in a responsible job bringing in good money so that he didn't have to work for FIVE years and spent every day around the house)
  4. She puts the children before me (all I wanted was a normal family life, he had opted out and didn't want to do anything, I was like a single parent)
  5. We argue all the time (he was always angry, had to be right, I couldn't express an opinion without him shouting me down.)
I could go on!!!
Abitwobblynow · 21/08/2012 09:39

no one shoud judge if you dont know what happened between two persons and the reasons that lead them to it.

Chicka but we should judge. Because there are many, other, CONSTRUCTIVE things that you can do other than have an affair.

How many minutes, seconds have you spent in counselling?

Abitwobblynow · 21/08/2012 09:44

runamile, you are both on the same page (ie, you both know there are problems).

A lot of us are completely blindsided. We were ML (I thought) up to 4 times a week! I had no idea we were in so much trouble.

And, when OW was discovered, she got dumped. and disparaged (which actually helped me see what a disgusting twunt he is). So he had an affair because he was feeling angry with me and sorry for himself, and entitled enough to think he could do what he wanted.

And the issues I had in the marriage resulted from your reasons 2 and 5. ie. HIM and his immaturity.

So his affair was about issues relating to HIM. And I have lost a lot of respect for him.

Fairenuff · 21/08/2012 10:13

But read her posts. Her DH chose his MATES over her

I don't know your back story Chicka. As far as I know, I haven't read any of your posts about this other than this thread. But all I got from here is that you wanted to live abroad and he didn't.

Did you have a choice about going? Well, of course you did, there is always a choice. You chose to go and he chose to stay. He could equally say, she chose her WORK over me!

None of this is a reason to cheat. Everyone has differences to resolve in their marriage. The ones that stay faithful to each other don't just do it because everything is rosy. They work hard to manage their boundaries, they discuss their differences, they compromise where possible and they are considerate of each other. If they can't do that, they have no relationship, so they separate.

The only reason people cheat is because it's easier for them than leaving, going it alone. It's called having your cake and eating it.

mysteriouslady · 21/08/2012 10:58

He didn't chose his mates he didn't want to go to middle east - well neither would I tbh.

ChickaChicka · 21/08/2012 13:31

He didnt earn much, i had more earning potential and it was the only offer of a job i had on the table. it would have been a new excitin adventure for both of us.

Instead he said he didnt want to leave his friends (not family) and move somewhere abroad.

Its very well to say couples should talk to each other but when one of you is sitting in a foreign place, comin home in the evenings to a lonely place with nothing as company, you go a bit mad. So you grab any attention that is thrown your way (this was before facetime and skype).

So even if you talked on the phone for 15 mins about your day, you still have the rest of your evening to get through. Watching TV gets boring. You long for company.

so then you get used to OM, fall in love blah blah and your stuck because you just cant chuck someone out of your life after spending so much time and experiences together.

Fairenuff · 21/08/2012 13:43

Chicka you are trying to justify something that you know is wrong.

Why not just admit it? Why try to make excuse after excuse for your behaviour. You are choosing to cheat on your husband. You know that if he found out he would be devastated. Just admit that it's wrong.

You say you treat him how you would like to be treated. Do you want him to cheat on you then?

If you are unhappy with him leave. If you want to stay married to him, work on your marriage.

Don't try and have your cake and eat it and make out that you are the victim here.

mysteriouslady · 21/08/2012 13:47

I'm sorry - but no matter how you put it - wild horses wouldn't drag me to the middle east - fantastic opportunity or not - what I don't understand (I am assuming this was before DCs) is why you stayed together??? It was a fantastic opportunity for you and I get grabbing it with both hands.

I completely understand having affairs - people do it for all sorts of reasons.

But to get married, have children, and all the while be sleeping with someone else - that I don't get.

If something isn't working - why not walk away before there are DCs and marriage?

It's too late now - but sooner or later this will all blow apart and there will be tears - on all sides.

I do feel really sorry for you though - it doesn't sound like a very happy existence.

concernedcitizen · 21/08/2012 17:48

I used to think affairs were always wrong - in all circumstances. In recent years, though I have come to believe that this issue is not as black and white as I used to think.

One of the reasons for this change of opinion was finding out about my DM's affair. She is a care worker, and is regularly told by people that she is the nicest, kindest person they have ever met, and she deserves these accolades in my opinion. She has been a fantastic mum to me and my siblings and has done her absolute best to be a good wife for the 40 years or so she has been married.

My Dad is honest, hard working and has always pulled his weight around the house. He is always there for us if we need him and is a good father. But he is just socially inept on many levels. He doesn't seem to be capable of showing an interest in anyone else's thoughts or opinions. He monologues rather than converses and will rarely ask my DM anything or make any attempts to start a conversation. To be fair, he will ask how she is if he knows she has been ill and is genuinely sympathetic and does more to help to let her rest. He will also ask if one of our grandparents are ill and again will offer to help. In many ways he is a good man. But I think she feels having a conversation with him is like wading through treacle. He never tries to engage her, or has any interest in what she thinks about anything not directly related to the family. He never asks her how her day at work went or if she enjoyed lunch with the friend she was meeting. She always makes an effort to take an interest in his life and what is going on with his colleagues and friends but he will sometimes monologue for up to an hour in response to a single question. She will volunteer opinions to feel that she has some part in the exchange but he never asks even if she doesn't volunteer anything.

I know that she has talked to him about this problem until she is blue in the face. She says he looks very uncomfortable, and then mutters about changing but never does. I don't know if they have considered therapy although I imagine until quite recently it wasn't really on peoples radars in the same way that it is today. She said she sought out an affair initially because she realised my DF would never change and just wanted someone to listen to her and show an interest in her as a person. And it then developed. She will not use "change or I leave" as an ultimatum because she will never leave. He is a good Dad and the marriage is a genuine partnership in many ways (he has earned enough for her to have had career breaks with each of us children).

If they weren't my parents, I'd probably say get a divorce, the kids will survive (we are all adults any way), but in all honesty, I'd be devastated if my parents split up. I'd understand, but having to watch them go through the separation and then dating and rejection and not ultimately knowing if they'd end up alone would be hard, and they do at least look after each other in some ways. And I'd hate to adjust to having a stranger in my "home" and not feel 100% comfortable (ie a new step parent). I haven't said this to my DM (who knows I know about the affair) but I think she values the family unit and so do I. I also think she has done so much for others in her life that she deserves some happiness for herself.

I have no idea why my DF is such a good person in many ways but is incapable of changing something so hurtful to my DM. I sometimes wonder if it might be mild autism/aspergers as I know these people can have trouble relating to others. I'm sure people will say he is selfish and maybe they are right, but he has been pretty selfless in many other ways and I do love him.

I hope I'm never in this type of marriage, and will do everything in my power to pick someone who is socially better, but if I do end up in a similar position with kids, I have to say I would no longer rule out an affair. Am I awful?

Fairenuff · 21/08/2012 17:59

My honest opinion concerned? Yes. It's awful.

It's a horrible, selfish, nasty thing to do to someone you say you care about.

It's dishonest, disrespectful and makes a miserable mockery of the marriage.

JustSpiro · 21/08/2012 18:41

concerned

I truly feel for you and your mum. Your Dad sound quite like my DH - I can well imagine myself being in a similar position to your mum in 20 years time.

Affairs are obviously, in theory, wrong - but no-one outside a relationship can really know what goes on within it, and no two relationships are the same. I have been cheated on in the past, and I have a friend who has been going through hell with her 'D'H and his OW over the last year. There are have been times when I would have cheerfully separated his cock from the rest of him with a rusty knife tbh, so I'm not oblivious to how awful being cheated on is.

I suspect the majority of affairs are mid-life crises, attention seeking, selfish acts. But life is full of shades of grey and not everyone who has an affair is automatically a terrible person.

fiventhree · 21/08/2012 19:26

Dont well all, though, have a responsibility to others to manage ourselves and have control.

eg Your mum stays with your dad because she gets things from the relationship, and not because only others do.

If it isnt enough, she should tell him. If she wants an open relationship, she should tell him. It may even help the dad to change himself, if he can.

She will say that she is secret about it to prevent him pain, but that isnt true- she wants to prevent pain and change in herself.

Also, she can have close friendships with others, and be listened to, without an affair.

If you can tell the other person, you know it is wrong.

Fairenuff · 21/08/2012 19:32

I am amazed at some people's attitude's to their marriage vows. Why promise to be faithful to someone if you don't mean it. Some gutless reasoning going on here too Hmm

My dh and I are together because we want to be. If either of us is not happy we are free to leave. Yes, it would be heartbreaking, yes it would be terribly hard on the dcs but have some integrity, some pride, some compassion for the people you profess to love, and some self respect would not go amiss either.

MorrisZapp · 21/08/2012 19:57

Ime most people with kids have gone long past the days of exciting sex. I love my DP deeply, but we very rarely have sex. Many of my friends give similar reports.

If a man my age with a wife or partner said 'my sex life with my wife is all but over' I wouldn't hesitate to believe it. It's reality for many of us.

Tbh I'd be more likely to doubt people who claimed to have great sex lives after ten years together.

mysteriouslady · 21/08/2012 20:01

Hate to disappoint but we still have an active sex life - and that's with teens and 2 under 5 and I'm pregnant.

This is a second marriage for both of us and we both feel really lucky to have each other - so we do make a huge effort to keep things loving and exciting.

It can be hard work - but isn't anything worth having.

mysteriouslady · 21/08/2012 20:04

Sorry meant to add - both our first Marriages were dreadful, really, really bad - gives having a loving partner an added dimension.

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