WWYD DH lending money again

[KatieMorag]

Dh has a long hiistory of lending our money to mostly family and friends without agreeing this with me first. Sometimes it gets paid back , sometimes not. We've had many many rows about this. He promises faithfully that he won't do it again. Then he does

Usually he lends money to his family. I don't mind if (a) we can afford it ( b) we get it back and ( c) we agree it between us. Sometimes we give money to family too, on the same conditions. This is because we are fortunate to be better off than most of our siblings.

About 10 years ago he borrowed £10,000 to lend to his sister. She never repaid it and it took us years to pay off the loan.

Last year he gave her £1,000 because she said she was in debt and couldn't pay her bills. She then took the money and went to Australia for a months holiday.

Earlier this year he lent a large sum of money to a colleague. By large I mean what I earn in a year. Today I discovered by accident that he's now lent this person another £10k.

I am so angry and Upset I can't even talk to him. It's not just the money, it's the lies , the deception and the broken promises. I don't know what to do.

Well you'll need to rethink your complacency about dividends being "household income" if your husband is giving secret "loans" of tens of thousands of pounds to anyone who asks.

Does he really think people like or respect people who try to buy their approval?

It just makes him look like a desperate twat.

Sorry not clear. What I meant is money leaves your account and goes into "borrower". What borrower does with it is not info you have is it? That's what I mean by an agreement between the lender and the borrower.

Money leaving doesn't mean your dh isn't receiving any of it back.

Dh not flash with cash at all. He likes New computer stuff but that's it. Drives 2yo car worth about £15k. Doesn't smoke or gamble. Doesn't care about clothes or house. We are not posh or flash

He lives to work. Clients love him. He needs that love and approval like a junkie needs his next fix. He wants all the staff to love him too. He's a terrible manager, I don't le him directly manage anyone as he's so bad at it

I can't believe I'm saying all this about him. I feel so disloyal. And also quite shocked that I actually feel like this. Does that make sense?

Its also worrying that your DH doesnt think he needs any help.
like an addict who thinks they dont have a problem, no amount of councilling or therapy is going to help them, because they will not be there for the right reasons.
going through the motions for the sake of you, or to avoid divorce is basically pointless because he doesnt think he has done anthing wrong - he is not going to have a lightbulb moment on the couch and suddenly realise the patterns he has been repeating all his life, or the way he finds validation is wrong, not until he actually wants to change for himself, until the benefits of remaining how he is are vastly overshadowed by the bad consequences.

"Dh doesn't think he needs help but is even more scared of divorce than HMRC"
Well, his fear could be a useful tool. If you use it to ensure he sees a counsellor, maybe hearing it coming from someone independent will help it to sink in. His neediness is overriding logic to an alarming level. Can he really not see that it is at the root of his problems?

That's definitely high street. I'll PM you the names of some mid-tier firms tomorrow when I get into the office.

One other thought. The advance of bonus implies that the employee in question is expecting a bonus of at least that amount. Is that usual for a company of your size in your industry? It sounds very high. Has anyone ever bothered to benchmark your employees' wages to check they're in line with your market? What if the employee under-performs so doesn't earn his bonus?

It's not disloyal you are being objective. Very healthy thing I'd say. You can love someone faults and all. However, knowing those faults might mean you have to be the "grown up" all the time. Not really fair I think.

I am listening to another accountant advice. Just can't do much about it tonight

No of cours I don't know what employee is doing with money. But amount lent and amount spent on extension matches up

dh has no need to siphon money through this route. There is plenty in his personal account to spend as he wishes.

I honestly don't think this is about the money, in the sense that he's gambling it or keeping another woman etc. But of course I may well be wrong. I've been on mumsnet long enough and read all the threads by other deluded women

Who even knows if the employee will deserve a bonus in Feb 2013? But he does work for your DH who likes to give money away.

and the way you describe him means that voracious piss takers will spot him a mile off and target him - they will know exactly what strings to pull, how to charm him into a position where he really wants their approval, and then they will start putting the pressure on.
In a way, due to his upbringing, and despite what he is doing being really detrimental to the marriage, it is almost like he is the victim of an abusive relationship himself - where he is a pleaser, where he has no boundaries, but his loyalties are warped and he is giving to the wrong people.
My ex (who was also a narc to boot) was a bit like this - he would give undying loyalty to such rubbish people who really took him for a mug as they knew exactly how to manipulate him, and every time he chose them over his wife. Was one of the major problems in the beginning. but it went with his personality, as he needed to be made to feel important, and being important to a wife just didnt cut it.

Thanks cinnabar. Wages are slightly above Market rate. Bonus is linked to increase in profit, so it will probably be in region of 30-40k ( we are now in Q3)

That makes sense nettle tea

"I feel so disloyal. And also quite shocked that I actually feel like this. Does that make sense?"
Perfect sense. But you are truly not being disloyal. Hell, you're still with him despite his behaviour, how much more loyal can you get ? Plus, you are bouncing your thoughts off people who have no relationship with your husband; so no-one he knows is going to 'look at him funny'/disrespect him because of this thread.

When something as big as this hits you, you need to talk to someone about it or you'll go MAD. But you can't always talk to your nearest and dearest, because of how it will affect them. And sometimes, you just plain don't want them to know. At which times, the nest of vipers that is Mumsnet is here for you.

Thanks WYLI

I'm a name changing oldie ( for obv reasons) so have often had support from you vipers

But not usually on something this big, thank goodness

YADNBU
Take about having trouble saying No

He's not actually lending money, he's giving it away!

Money comes and money goes, I really do hope for your sake that you don't need it one day because you'll be hard pushed to collect all his IOU's.
I really don't know what to say for advice but he is not being financially responsible at all. You need to step in and take control, take it out of his hands.

• Talk

Have just all thread and a bit shocked. At least your business is a company and not a sole trader/partnership. If it were, the missing cash could be attributed to your dh as drawings, and then he'd have to pay tax and ni on them.

One thing to think of would be to draw up something in the t+c's of employment covering employee loans, including repayment periods, and methods of repayment.

Good luck

But what would he do if this man left your employment? Given he's £60,000 ahead, it wouldn't be a bad idea.

Your husband needs to seriously look into seeking help. Is there another way he can 'do good' rather than by giving away all his assets?

The 30k that is a personal loan IS considered drawings. So we have alreday paid tax on it. Sigh

Katie, there's no such thing as drawings from a company. You can only take drawings out of an unincorporated business.

There are only three ways for an owner-manager to take cash out of his company: dividends declared on his shares; salary/bonus on which PAYE/NIC falls due; or a loan to him from the company (and the company pays tax on however much of the loan is still outstanding 9m after year end; the owner-manager is taxed on it to the extent that he doesn't pay a commercial level of interest to the company on the debt.

All 3 ways would need to go through the company's books. Your financial controller should be able to tell you which it is.

Unless you mean that the employee is treating the £30k advance on his bonus as drawings? No - it's an advance of his remuneration and subject to PAYE/NIC.

Something else occurred to me last night.

Do you have £10k plus stashed away in a personal account somewhere, like your DH does?

If not, why not?

This doesn't solve the problems you have already, but before the next meeting you and DH have with the accountant, could you persuade the accountant to insist that a repayment plan is set up for all outstanding loans, including to your employee and DH's sister? I don't know whether it would be enforceable as it doesn't sound like any proper procedures were followed, but once word gets out that your accountant is chasing the money owed, it might stop others from asking for money.

60k! Think what YOU could have done with that money. I think you need some serious professional legal advice, as others have said. This would be a dealbreaker for me I'm afraid.

OP, could you add up how much he's lent over the past few years and how much he's had back?