WWYD DH lending money again

[KatieMorag]

Dh has a long hiistory of lending our money to mostly family and friends without agreeing this with me first. Sometimes it gets paid back , sometimes not. We've had many many rows about this. He promises faithfully that he won't do it again. Then he does

Usually he lends money to his family. I don't mind if (a) we can afford it ( b) we get it back and ( c) we agree it between us. Sometimes we give money to family too, on the same conditions. This is because we are fortunate to be better off than most of our siblings.

About 10 years ago he borrowed £10,000 to lend to his sister. She never repaid it and it took us years to pay off the loan.

Last year he gave her £1,000 because she said she was in debt and couldn't pay her bills. She then took the money and went to Australia for a months holiday.

Earlier this year he lent a large sum of money to a colleague. By large I mean what I earn in a year. Today I discovered by accident that he's now lent this person another £10k.

I am so angry and Upset I can't even talk to him. It's not just the money, it's the lies , the deception and the broken promises. I don't know what to do.

[chasingtail]

My God OP, have just read through this whole saga & my heart goes out to you!

My situation pales into insignificance compared to yours but similar in that my husband is I believe, about to give lend a reasonable amount of money to waster BIL. Thank God at least I know of his intentions but what really hurts the most is despite me being adament that we shouldn't give the money (can in no way afford to give or lend it) he is still wanting to go ahead. It's the disloyalty to me and our family that really hurts & the total disregard to my feelings.

Similarly he's from a pretty fucked up family & seems to have an almost pathalogical need to 'help' people who won't/can't help themselves.

Alarm bells ringing as we also have our own business albeit with another equal share partner. My worry now is that he will somehow syphon money off from the business to give to DB.

I don't have any words of wisdon, but you sound like a very wise, intelligent woman who amazingly, has managed to stay rational in all this mess.

[plutocrap]

That's an interesting update. I lurked before but didn't have any accountancy knowledge to offer.

However, at this moment, a very important point to considrr is ehat he might do with such a lump sum. If your counselling (joint) is only just getting off te ground, and you haven't mentioned individual counselling for him, it seems like the wrong time for him to "get his hands on" some money, especially "untied" money. After all, embezzlement didn't wirry him before; he could be even laxer about "personal" money. It's too soon for him (and you) to risk that kind of crisis.

I totally agree with other points raised, too!

[SuePurblybilt]

Me too . You're very strong.
I think employee sounds as if he would be the baddie, if this were made up IYSWIM. And I'm not sure how his repayments would work, if you sold? So based on no knowledge whatsoever, I think you'd be well to be cautious.

[Technoviking]

Sounds like he values other people above you. If he's been like this for a long time, it's unlikely he'll change, or see the real need to.

[blackcurrants]

Katie I've read this thread in increasing shock - I've nothing much to add because I know nothing about your situation and have no experience of it, but just wanted to say that I hope you're feeling alright after the shock of it all, and are taking care of yourself.

[KatieMorag]

Fivemthree, if we sold the co Dh woudl have to stay for a while, maybe 3 years as part of the deal, as he makes a lot of our profit. I wouldn't want to stay on and wouldn't need to. Selling the business is part of our retirement plan. We could live off the proceeds . That's why it was so important for me to get my share back, so I woulndt be financially dependent on him after a split.

But I do want to make our marriage work, if at all possible

[fiventhree]

Also, it may be a wider issue than money eg lifestyle change etc, if you had no mortgage. Only you two can decide those things.

Which brings me to another point- what would be the implications of any offer for you personally (taking into account your age etc), if you and dh eventually split for any reason? eg would you still be able to find a well paid and flexible job, or would you not need one?

So the issues are about money/the deal itself, risk as the market changes (eg you many lose your competitive edge as others mature in a competitive market place ), lifestyle and also personal future security.

[HansieMom]

How about getting your loan repaid from employee before any sale takes place?

[CinnabarRed]

I'm always right

[ChitchatAtHome]

Cinnebar is right, what a brilliant time (and excuse) for changing your accountant!!

[CinnabarRed]

Very pleased to hear that you got the 50:50 shareholding back!

If you're willing to PM me the approximate value of your company I can PM back my opinion on what size of accountancy firm would be about right to advise you.

FWIW, I work for one of the Big 4 and our Corporate Finance team certainly works on deals valued in the low £10s of millions. So a mid tier firm may well suit you depending on your size. You know from my earlier posts that I think you've already well outgrown your accountants, so now might be an excellent time to switch. A mid tier firm (or at least one bigger than your current accountants) would also be better placed to give you investment advice about what to do with the sales proceeds.

[HollaAtMeBaby]

I wouldn't make any decisions about the business until you've had a few more relate sessions. If you are going to leave him, selling the business would be the cleanest way of doing that.

[KatieMorag]

Scotland

[TheDoctrineOfSnatch]

Op approx where are you (SE, SW etc) - cd help people make suggestions.I

[KatieMorag]

Riksti- I don't care if the employee becomes CEO of the company . Bit I'm wondering if he's incentivised to sell our compnay at a lower price so he can get a bigger salary down the line. if its a win win situation, that's fine.

We do want to sell. My questions are

Is this the right time?
Is this a good price?
What are the T&C that Dh will have to work under ?

So I defo need professional advice that's independent and informed.

[KatieMorag]

We do want to sell but had hoped to do so in 3-5 years. Dh woudl be expected to stay on for a few years, as he's the biggest fee earner in the co. we are a professional services firm

Re WIP, the offer on the table is only 4x WIP, so thats one reason I don't think it's enough. And it's only 5 times our profit . So in others words, if we don't sell but continue to run the business for the next 5 years , we would make as much as we woudl by selling.

Our current accountnat is just a small compnay of 4 or 5 accountants . But I don't trust their competence. Accountant just suggested yesterday that we sell 10% of the business for 75% less than this compnay are offering ( I do realise that 10% of the co isn't worth 10% of the price of the whole but even so)

[EverybodysCryEyed]

It depends on the specialism and value of the company so sure - but these days you can get pretty good deals on fees (depending where you are based).

I would also do a bit of soul searching on whether or not you actually want to sell before commiting any costs to the process.

I got the impression that dh loves his work and there is likely to be a non compete clause put in place.

[riksti]

Everybody, BDO may be a bit of an overkill if the OP is with a sole practitioner at the moment. A local bigger firm with experience in the area might be sufficient.

[riksti]

I think you need an accountant that is experienced in business valuations then. The way companies are valued largely depends on the sector they are in so it's difficult to suggest what a valuation is based on without knowing a lot more.

To be honest I wouldn't focus so much on what your employee is getting out of this - only on whether you want to sell and what that means to your family. If you can get the price that you want why would you care if he becomes the CEO? (I understand it's easy to say for me since I don't have an emotional connection with the company but you built it up from the beginning. However, if you're selling your business then somebody else will be running it). If you do go through with the sale you definitely need to see a solicitor to make sure your interest (and the loan given to him) is covered as well.

You can't directly remove the WIP if you're selling the shares since the WIP belongs to the company. By selling the shares you are getting rid of the whole company so everything in there will go as well. The value of the WIP, however, should be reflected in the valuation.

[AitchTwoOhOneTwo]

sorry to keep yakking but obv he's also a Big Fat Liar, though, which absolutely has to change, so i hope i'm not minimising his crimes.

[EverybodysCryEyed]

You said up thread that your DH loves his work - what would he do if you sold?

Your employee has a conflict of interest here and I would be concerned about keeping him in contact with clients etc whilst this process is under discussion.

have you considered using a mid-tier firm - BDO/PKF etc?

[AitchTwoOhOneTwo]

people pleasers can be helped, though. and as an eldest i do get that there's no seeing a sibling go without if you have it to scrape together yourself. (obv he extends that beyond family, though, which is barking. but hopefully not irredeemable).

[AitchTwoOhOneTwo]

for the record i think your dh sounds nice. just wrong. but nice. i really hope this is salvageable.

[suburbophobe]

You are living with a people pleaser. Sorry, don't know how to help, except to deal with the finances by yourself.

[KatieMorag]

Thanks aitch