WWYD DH lending money again

[KatieMorag]

Dh has a long hiistory of lending our money to mostly family and friends without agreeing this with me first. Sometimes it gets paid back , sometimes not. We've had many many rows about this. He promises faithfully that he won't do it again. Then he does

Usually he lends money to his family. I don't mind if (a) we can afford it ( b) we get it back and ( c) we agree it between us. Sometimes we give money to family too, on the same conditions. This is because we are fortunate to be better off than most of our siblings.

About 10 years ago he borrowed £10,000 to lend to his sister. She never repaid it and it took us years to pay off the loan.

Last year he gave her £1,000 because she said she was in debt and couldn't pay her bills. She then took the money and went to Australia for a months holiday.

Earlier this year he lent a large sum of money to a colleague. By large I mean what I earn in a year. Today I discovered by accident that he's now lent this person another £10k.

I am so angry and Upset I can't even talk to him. It's not just the money, it's the lies , the deception and the broken promises. I don't know what to do.

[joanofarchitrave]

He knew you would say no?



So.... he then thought.... what? 'KM's opinion is worth nothing?'

Is he at all remorseful, 'what have I done' ish?

[KatieMorag]

Lizzie, I can't understand why he still does it when he KNOWS it can go wrong. He never got a penny back from his sister, or even an apology. She and her Dp drank the money and we were paying back the loan for years. His brother went bankrupt and lost his business and their family home.

[joanofarchitrave]

I wonder if he would consider doing some roleplaying, where he says no to requests for money? What does he think would happen if he says no?

[TheDoctrineOfEnnis]

First thing tomorrow, get dual signatories on the accounts for amounts over whatever is reasonable for day to day needs, say £1,000.

Make sure you have similar protection on the online account.

Then at least the business is protected and you can start to address the deceit.

When was the £10k leant and on what terms? Employees can only borrow £5000 from their employers On an interest free basis without it being a taxable benefit. Please ensure that monthly repayments are deducted from salary, which is quite standard, then at least you have control of that. What about the previous loan, is that being repaid?

[TheDoctrineOfEnnis]

Leant=lent

[LeandarBear]

At the very least, can you make sure he gets something in writing from the work colleague that he has lent the money to. If you look on MoneySavingExpert you can get the info you need. If the person borrowing the money was honourable he would have insisted on it being a 'legal' arrangement.

I would be furious too.

[LeandarBear]

X post. ( but at least we show consistency).

[ladyWordy]

Oh dear, that's even worse. He can't just take money out of a business to pay for personal whims, however charitable their intent?..I mean, whilst you can account for it well enough if you have to, you don't want to be in a position to be unable to pay the taxman, salaries, bills. Aargh!

Might your accountant have any advice on locking down money? A private word with her/him might be worth a try here?

It's very sad and wrong that your DH should be manipulated in this way. For relatives to take such large sums with no repayment, or pretend to have bills and then take a holiday?oooh, that makes me angry. And of course you feel helpless and frustrated at the broken agreements with your DH.

I wonder what makes him do this. I understand the guilt, and sympathy, but not why anyone would jeopardise important things because someone pushes their buttons....

[maytheoddsbeeverinyourfavour]

You are so not in the wrong on this one, I am at his behaviour

It's not even about the money but the blatant disregard he has for you and your opinion. It would be a deal breaker for me

[KatieMorag]

Ennis, the previous loan was an " advance " on his bonus that would have normally been paid in February 2013. There is no legal arrangement in place for this, just an email.

DH gave him the further 10k today. I only found out about it by accident tonight. He's moved it from our online account already.

Do I need to speak to our accountant and our bank? Problem is that they will need Dh to agree to any changes and he probably won't, as the most important thing to him is not losing face. I don't want go humiliate him but I need to protect our business and our children.

[TheDoctrineOfEnnis]

You don't have to tell the bank why you want two signatories - it would be quite normal to do this.

Does your DH own 100% of the business or is it 50:50? Are you a Director? Are there any other Directors or shareholders?

If the payment is an advance on his bonus, it probably needs tax and NI paid on it, did this happen? That could be a face saving way to raise with the accountant - ask how to treat this item and hopefully accountant will raise some questions.

[joanofarchitrave]

It depends what your bottom line is.

Perhaps he could state what HIS bottom line is? What loss is he willing for the business to make in order to look like the good guy to his deadbeat relatives?

But your bottom line - if he gives this chap another £10K tomorrow, what would you do? £5K? £1K? £100K?

Tell him that you obviously can't and won't make changes to the business setup without his agreement; so why the bloody hell does he take it on himself to spend serious capital amounts without yours?

[KatieMorag]

We own the business 70:30, him/me. It used to be 50:50 but the accountant advised we had to change as per HMRC rules as he earns far more than me. No other shareholders. One other director, who is the employee concerned.

Yes, tax and ni paid on bonus as usual.

Last time he did this he promised faithfully never to do it again.

[joanofarchitrave]

[KatieMorag]

Joan, I think my bottom line is that I can't trust him anymore. He's lied to me repeatedly and made promises he has no intention of keeping. he is more concerned about the opinions of an employee than his wife, and he will risk his marriage and children's future to look like mr big . I don't know if I can go on living with someone I don't trust

[WhereYouLeftIt]

You own 30% of the business. You are, I presume, also a director in the company. That gives you enforcable rights, surely? Can you run it past the accountant as to whether your husbands loans have been legal, and even if they have been, whether such a transaction needed your agreement?

And would you be in a better position to hold him to his legal liabilities to his fellow shareholder/director (you) if you were his ex-wife?

[KatieMorag]

Guess I need to see the accountant then

Though I suspect he doesn't fix marriages

[Iheartpasties]

oh dear, he sounds like he needs counselling - like others have already said what does he think will happen if he says no? he obviously worries about that more than what you will say, which is sad for you and your family.

[joanofarchitrave]

I think I would seriously look at resigning from the business and setting up solo, or getting a job, if he refuses to put any legal safeguards in place.

[perfumedlife]

KatieMorag this is just awful for you I'm afraid I think the money is a side issue, it's that as a married woman, your opinion on this counts for nothing here, according to him. He knew you'd say no so he lied to you, by omission, and that's how much he thinks of you and your place by his side.

I'd be beyond safeguarding him or counselling, he's need to leave, see how he acts MrBig on someone's sofa, answering questions, wondering who you've told and what you've said. Fight fire with fire here. He needs to see you are furious..

[AThingInYourLife]

He's stealing money from your business.

Of course you can't trust him.

He's a thief.

[CogitoErgOlympics]

I think lying is a pretty fundamental problem in a relationship. He sees the money as his to dispense as he sees fit, and that you have no say in the matter. This makes him a selfish liar that doesn't respect you enough to take you seriously. If this is how he behaves with money, what's to say he isn't lying and treating other areas of your relationship in the same casual manner?

He's also stupid, of course. Being generous when you have money to spare is one thing. Borrowing money or robbing the VAT man to pay Paul in some Lord Bountiful delusion is downright irresponsible and your family could end up in serious difficulties as a result.

I couldn't tolerate someone who behaved that way. Good luck

[diddl]

Utter madness.

So he´d rather risk his marriage/home/business that say no?

Even though it´s already cost him 10,000 GBP?

What an idiot.

TBH, if I knew who he was, I´d be warning people not to do business with him.

[mummytime]

Your DH is effectively committing fraud. Sorry but without a proper agreement he is on very dodgy grounds with this "loan" to an employee. If you get audited you will be in a very very difficult position.
You need to tell everyone about what he has done. He needs to take responsibility and sort it.

To be honest if my DH did something so stupid, I would be resigning from the company and taking all necessary steps to separate my finances from his. He is not treating you like an adult, but like an angry parent, and acting as if he is a naughty school boy. This is no way to run a business.

I am sorry but you could be in very serious financial difficulties if he does a) sort it out or b) you separate yourself and family from him financially.