WWYD DH lending money again

[KatieMorag]

Dh has a long hiistory of lending our money to mostly family and friends without agreeing this with me first. Sometimes it gets paid back , sometimes not. We've had many many rows about this. He promises faithfully that he won't do it again. Then he does

Usually he lends money to his family. I don't mind if (a) we can afford it ( b) we get it back and ( c) we agree it between us. Sometimes we give money to family too, on the same conditions. This is because we are fortunate to be better off than most of our siblings.

About 10 years ago he borrowed £10,000 to lend to his sister. She never repaid it and it took us years to pay off the loan.

Last year he gave her £1,000 because she said she was in debt and couldn't pay her bills. She then took the money and went to Australia for a months holiday.

Earlier this year he lent a large sum of money to a colleague. By large I mean what I earn in a year. Today I discovered by accident that he's now lent this person another £10k.

I am so angry and Upset I can't even talk to him. It's not just the money, it's the lies , the deception and the broken promises. I don't know what to do.

[CinnabarRed]

Katie, I don't think you appreciate yet just how badly the accountant screwed up his advice to you on the shareholding.

His advice was never right. As an absolute minimum he should have told you that the case in question was under appeal and therefore the decision on which he based his advice was not final. The case was final in 2007 in favour of the taxpayer.

Let me re-emphasis this: his advice was dubious at the time and was out-and-out wrong from 2007 onwards. He's had 5 years to inform you. And this wasn't a minor tax case. It was the biggest case in tax for 3 years. There's no way a competent accountant couldn't have known that the advice he gave you was wrong. I was on maternity leave and I knew about it.

You have lost 5 years worth of rights to dividends on your 20% holding. You could sue him for that, you know. If we hadn't pointed it out to you, you could have lost 20% of the capital value of the company. 2/5ths of how you plan to fund your kids' education and your retirement.

This isn't a brush-it-under-the-carpet job. This is a sacking offence.

[CinnabarRed]

And you should certainly consider reporting him to the ICAEW, the professional body for chartered accountants. He's a disgrace.

[KatieMorag]

You are right cinnabar, I didn't know all that

We take very little salary, most of our income is dividends

When you say I've lost the money, do you mean that it was paid to Dh instead of me? so there was no loss to our household income?

[Houseofplain]

I do think you should listen to cinnabar. She has made some very good posts for you.

Which is why people are gobsmacked you are taking this accountants word for anything

[DoItOnce]

Well done KatieMorag. You have done something positive and practical. I hope you feel a bit better and that your DH comes to his senses.

I have a DH who has done similar with his DB. It drives me crazy. We have a great marriage but I had to get really stroppy before he got the loan documented properly. He felt he had to lend his DB the money as the DB was taking money off my very skint MIL so my DH feels he did it for her rather than his scummy DB.


(I love your name, I always read those books to my DC's)

[KatieMorag]

@doitonce- granny island is my hero, in her boiler suit fixing the tractor

[CinnabarRed]

I mean that if your company declared dividends of, say, £1 per share then 70% would have gone to DH and 30% to you, rather than 50%:50%. So yes, in that sense your household income hasn't decreased. But given how rash your DH is with money, wouldn't it have been better for you to have more control over it?

And, TBH, it doesn't matter that your household hasn't lost money. Your accountant has no idea what state your marriage is in. For all he knew you might have been on the verge of separating, in which case you would have needed to have the right shareholding, as a position to negotiate from.

Or, to put it another way. Suppose you decide that you want to give your DH an ultimatum - either to treat you like an independent director/shareholder for business purposes (keep you fully informed, get your consent, etc) or he buys you out of your share of the business. How much would your DH owe you for 30%? And how much would he owe you for 50%. I'll tell you now, a 50% shareholding is worth considerably more than 5/3rd of 30% because a 50% shareholder can block certain resolutions from being passed at an AGM that a 30% shareholder can't.

Which is another point. Even leaving aside value, the reduction from 50% to 30% shareholding took away a considerable chunk of your power and control in the business. Which given your DH's tendencies with cash is a dangerous thing.

[CinnabarRed]

BTW, I'm angry with the accountant, but not at all angry with you. You're clearly a strong, intelligent women.

I'm not even angry (yet) at your DH - at least as far as the shareholding goes - becasue I assume he's not tax trained and therefore had to take the accountant's word that this was the best course of action. If it ever comes out that your DH did know, whether from your accountant or otherwise, that you'd been diddled out of your 20% shareholding then I'll be incandescent with rage at your DH on your behalf!

[MNsFavouriteManHater]

what has your husband said about all these changes to be put in place ?

[KatieMorag]

Neither of us have any financial background, our business is technical

Dh and I were told by the accountant that we had to do it to avoid falling foul of HMRC. Dh is very scared of this.

I am contemplating insisting that we reinstate the 50:50 split. Also because of voting rights etc as you say

Have not discussed with Dh yet as kids still around. And I want to think it all through first . I'm practising on you lot

[KatieMorag]

Cinnabar, forgot to say you are right about the power and control. Reinforces his feeling that it's his bushiness not ours

[MNsFavouriteManHater]

Good luck, Katie

We are tough practice partners, that is for sure !

[CinnabarRed]

We're here for you!

TBF to your DH, if I were him I'd be about taking advice from strangers on t'internet over the accountant he presumably trusts but not enough to tell him the truth about keeping you in the dark. Insist on getting a second independent accountant in to review the company because he'll have to accept his/her opinion.

[KatieMorag]

Just had a brief conversation with Dh. He's admitted there is another loan to this employee that I didn't know about. He made this from his personal account in June. £20k. Theres no security, no loan agreement of any kind,not even verbal. He's promised this guy another 10k if he needs it.

[WhereYouLeftIt]

I can only repeat, your husband really needs some professional help with his need for approval.

[KatieMorag]

You know,I feel like these mumsnetter who post having found an inappropriate email /text from their DP/DH to some woman. They confront them and Get " FFs it's only a text you are over reacting"

Then it's more texts, emails

Then lunch dates or drinks aftre work. " I didn't tell you because I knew you are suspicious /paranoid"

Then they find out about the night in the hotel " but we just talked all night , nothing happened"

Then it's " it was only one night, I was drunk, she was upset, it didn't mean anything"

You know how it goes.

That's me. My life is a mumsnet relationship thread cliche. Or quiche

It's just as well he's gone out for milk or I might have to kill him

[MNsFavouriteManHater]

omg

why?

just why ?

Your H's need for approval from what is virtually a stranger (in comparison to you, that is...) can't be that severe can it ?

[twooter]

So he's up to£40k loan after 9 months with the company?

[MNsFavouriteManHater]

I don't know what else to say (and believe me, I am not often stuck for words)

I am so sorry.

[KatieMorag]

I know. It's now on page 2of my list of conditions for staying in the marriage

P1 is related to the business

I have to try and deal with this is a detached way or I will crack up. I can't tell you how much it's helping me being able to write it down like this and getvyour feedback and advice. It makes it a technical problem I need to fix, rather than my family life falling apart. If I start to feel I will crack up

[MNsFavouriteManHater]

this employee has had 40k from you in matter of months

what is he doing with it ?

that would set me up for life

[tribpot]

I can't help but feel you really really need to get your own accountant all over this shit, KatieMorag. The loan from his personal account was presumably paid from dividends, some of which arguably belongs to you and not him.

WhereYouLeftIt is right, he has a serious problem. And now you have a serious problem. His employees seem uniformly to have serious money problems to the tune of tens of thousands of pounds, which does seem oddly coincidental. Are they all financially incompetent or are they all, in fact, ripping you off?

[MNsFavouriteManHater]

katie, does this not make you feel now that you need to pay someone else someone independent to come and go through everythign with a fine tooth comb

you can't trust your accountant

and you can't trust your husband

what a fucking mess

I would be resigning my position, and ending my marriage. Sort out the 50/50 split and then remove your assets.

This man will bring you down.

[KatieMorag]

Twootwr -£30k in personal loan and £30k advance on his bonus due feb 2013. So employee has paid tax and Ni on the second one and we have no security or paperwork on either

So both are loans ATM but only £30k needs repaid. Assuming he stays in post til feb

[RandomMess]

I am just

It's like he has all his brain cells relating to loans missing...