My DH hates family life and I don't know what to do.

[confusedgirlfromtheShire]

Regular poster, namechanged.

Trying to keep a long story short, apologies in advance if any of this sounds perfunctory/cold. Am just trying to keep number of words down.

DH and I are both early thirties and have one DS who is nearly two. Been married 5 years. Together for 9, known each other for 14 years.

Me: high profile work in financial services on high wage, currently working four days a week. Like the job most of the time but very high pressure. Hours not too bad cos I work like a dog when I'm there so get a lot done and don't bring work home. So Mon to Thurs I am out of the house at 6.20am, 1.5 hour commute each way, home around 5.20pm. Have had Chronic Fatigue Syndrome since 2009 which lays me out whenever I have a bad virus, but I'm managing it with diet and lots of rest. House has always been in my name, now mortgage free.

DH: By agreement, does not work. Intelligent, but in his teens and early twenties lacked application, dropped out of uni, a series of jobs but zero "career", no hope of progression. I sorted him out, put him through OU while he was working, where he got a first class degree. We had DS in his final year, then I got PTSD and PND and we agreed because I earned three times what he did and he hated his job anyway he would quit, take on the babycare and we would put our DS in nursery a couple of days a week so my DH could do a masters over two years. He has just completed the first year and done very well. One year to go.

Issues: He really really hates what I term "family life". He doesn't like looking after our toddler, just puts up with it, goes through the motions but there is no real enjoyment there. DH says he feels he has no freedom and no time to himself and that he feels I never want to be on my own with DS. My argument is that I am paying £500 a month to give him Tuesdays and Thursdays to do what he wants as our DS is in nursery a day (DS loves it and is very happy there). Plus, I do Fridays and we are always out and about so he gets most of the day to himself then too. It's 50-50 in the evenings until DS goes to bed then as I go to bed early (9.30pm to recharge for the next day) if DH wants to do his own thing (pottering in the garage or painting his models) I don't mind that either. But apart from specific jobs for an hour or two on Sat and Sunday I expect that to be time where we spend it together as a family, just hanging out, going places etc. DH is pushing back on this, seems really miserable, complains that our DS is such a tie and that it's not me he resents, it's DS and he wants time to do his own thing, and as I don't really have any hobbies, it doesn't make sense for us to just be sitting around the house together as it's a waste of time. He has very few of his own friends. I can't convey how disappointed I am in him and his attitude to our family. I do half the childcare, which is mostly lovely or fine, occasionally difficult, at least half the housework, earn all the money, make all the plans for the future - all my money is OUR money saved for the big things like a better house, DS's education, holidays. DH says he can't wait to be properly working (a year away) ? but he has implicitly indicated that he wants to work his way through his dream list of cars and pursue his own dreams and do his own thing more - money is the only thing that?s stopping him now.

When DS acts up, he swears at him and it is horrible to listen to. Sometimes he sits with him in the playroom but doesn't talk or interact, just stares into space. 70% of the time though he's either good or great.
I made him go to the doctor for depression and he did, but he thinks that his reaction is entirely rational and therefore can't be a mental health issue, so he hasn?t taken it any further. I am angry with him and love him a little less each day. Conversation and general chit chat is poor, we do talk about our issues but never seem to get anywhere. But I am terrified of how I would manage on my own, because of logistics of looking after our son, for one. Weekends are bad because we don't know what to do with ourselves - we fill the time but DH isn't having any fun and that in turn puts me right on edge. Work is a relief in one way, but very stressful sometimes as I said in the beginning.

I cannot believe that this is my life now. I wish I was with someone fun and energetic who liked being a dad. DH says it was a mistake in hindsight to have DS. I don't think that (although I did when I was really ill), and would consider a second, if we got a nanny to help me get over the baby stage, which I hated. I get better with kids the older they are.

Any advice please? Do I stay or go? Any insight into what is going on in DH?s head and whether he is likely to change?

Sorry despite best efforts this has been so long.

'spent' most of my time.

I entirely concur that a lot of the tasks involved in caring for young children is repetitive and not particularly fulfilling. I certainly wouldn't have enjoyed it nearly as much if I hadnt had my work to provide another dimension.
< disclaimer: this doesn't mean I find my own children boring at all- they are great, especially as they get older >

I do get quite a lot of satisfaction from seeing my DCs perform routine household and self-care tasks to high standards that they have absorbed from seeing me do them with and/or to them for many years.

But the road seems somewhat long and winding quite a lot of the time...

What are you going to do then confused?

It doesn't matter whether he's a SAHD or SAHM.

He doesn't realise how fortunate he is and how lucky he is to have choices. He has the financial security behind him to do whatever the hell he wants to, to change his life and be happier. So you need to sit down and thrash it out once and for all. He sounds bitter, resentful and depressed.

OP, I really don't want to kick you when you're down, I think you sound great, but I am really surprised that you tolerated your DH's behaviour for so long and even saw him as husband material. Did you think he would change? People can change, but the motivation has to come from themselves, ie because they want to to it, not because someone else is enabling it for him.

Now you are kind of stuck, because if you don't tolerate his juvenile, selfish, entitled behaviour, you will lose out financially (from this viewpoint, it would be better to keep the marriage together until he finds full time work, as it will cost you less if you divorce and also make custody issues easier).

The problem is, this man has never learned the good habits of working and providing, he has no motivation to do so and he doesn't sound very happy about it. He has to work it out for himself, but doesn't know how to, because someone else has always done it for him.

Its up to you how much more of this you are prepared to tolerate in order to keep the marriage together. Have you tried being stricter with him and simply telling him how awful his behaviour is? What is his reaction?

And none of this addresses the problem that weekends aren't good. That should be family time they can enjoy together - maybe not every single minute of it but a significant part of it. I would be keen to see if the husband ups his game at all if their child goes into nursery effectively full time.

WhoWillDoMyHoovering - you misread my post. I said that a lot of people do childcare and household work on top of a part-time job.

But as to your point, I've worked full-time 6-8 plus weekends in the City in a senior position and it is a lot less exhausting than looking after children full-time.

I think he was not cut out to be a SAHD and sounds a bit depressed. Suspect he feels shit not having a career. think the mistake was agreeing he would leave work to look after DS.

Lots of people dont want to be SAHPs particularly (IME) men. I think most men NEED the respect of their peers in the industry they work in to be happy.

I know this is massively oversimplifying it but I think you should bite the bullet and get your DS into FT childcare talk about your DH training or getting a job and see what happens from there. Give him a second chance. If it doesnt work then you reassess.

You say yourself in your OP the main reason for not wanting to split is the logistics of childcare. I am sure you dont mean that exactly but would suggest that if yoiur DH perceives this then it is not a good place for him to be - a source of convenient childcare only rather than a real partner.

Janey68 - you're right. I can take that because it's true. We have it EASY, and I do keep telling DH that.

I must pick up on the response to me saying I don't like babies. It does not logically follow that I did not care for my son. I did a good job in trying circumstances which are not relevant here, meeting his physical and emotional needs at the expense of my own. Please be very careful when you say in shocked response to a woman who says that she doesn't like babies/struggles with them and who might have tipped into depression that "the first year of a child's life is vitally important". You should know that every woman who has had PND dies a little more inside when people say that sort of thing. Where is the evidence to say that PND for a short period of time forever damages the child?

I don't know about the clinginess being a bad sign. Google "clingy toddlers" - it seems pretty common at this age. Plus, I know some textbook brilliant mothers with infinite patience whose toddlers are still stuck to them like velcro and won't be separated for a second - tis normal!

I am wondering in the short term whether to talk to DH's mother. It will hurt me, because I think she undermines and interferes, but if I give her just half the story maybe she will take over some of the childcare for half a day and maybe a bit of time of the weekend, while we figure out what to do. It's not a permanent solution as she is itching to take over and play mummy. However she is a great grandma - I have to admit that.

Sorry, totally cocked up the italics there.

Yes, I have talked to him about his behaviour. It does not go well. He pointedly reminds me about my PND. I say - yes, well that was five days a week 7am to 6pm on my own with a much younger baby who NEVER stopped crying. You have two days with a fairly easy, entertaining if occasionally highly strung toddler! It is not the same thing!

He shouldn't use your PND as an argument. Toddlers are VERY hard work. Rewarding but knackering. I don't think you should compare. It doesn't sound as if you're very nice to each other. I think clinginess is normal too. I think you have both been boxed into a corner and now are just rehashing the same old all the time without sorting anything out. Is there any chance the three of you can go for a holiday? You and dh could chat in a relaxed environment.

schmee - yep, i understand that alot of people do childcare & chores as well as a part-time job, just not many people (seem to) understand just how that type of job can be mentally draining. But clearly you are posting with that knowledge, so ignore my rant !

Repeating myself, but I really think you should consider putting your son full time into nursery. Posters 'siding' with you and with your husband have both said this seems best. It doesn't have to be forever but it could either take the pressure off one or both of you, or improve your son's care, since you have said he's very happy there. I really would do this and then focus on getting your weekends into shape and sorting your relationship out.

So you were not particularly good at being with your newborn & he was totally discouraging by mentioning your PND to reinforce this; you dealt with it by going back to work- doing something you are good at and rewarded for. He is not particularly good at dealing with your toddler, but you are totally discouraging him by saying 'what I did was more difficult, toddlers are easy' (read: your contribution here is not appreciated) but he can't escape the situation in the same way, as he (thinks he must) get the qualification first before finding rewarding employment.

So what does he want to do OP, if he doesn't want to do childcare, ditched his boring job, and currently can't work while he is doing a part-time Masters? Does he have any ideas of his own, beyond wanting to buy cars that most people without the money have to do without?

Why do you put up with him/what do you see in him? I must admit I'm struggling to see how even some very good traits in him would be sufficient to compensate for his behaviour.

I think that's a useful perspective whowilldomyhoovering

OP, does that possibility make any sense to you?

Sounds like you've both dug yourselves into your trenches so will struggle to get out of this collaboratively unless perhaps you get some outside advice. Have I missed a discussion on counselling? A third party to help you clamber out of this?

God, so now he's thrown your PND back in your face? Niiice. Sorry, still inclining to the "spoilt brat" belief where he's concerned. And while I can see that his mother might be a short term benefit help-wise, it could backfire rather badly if you do decide to call it quits, so just bear that in mind.

Saying you can't criticise him because you had PND?

Fucking knob Spoiled brat!!!

I've just re-read your OP and a couple things leap out at me. You are doing half the childcare, more than half the housework, and bringing in all the money and you have chronic fatigue. Plus on weekends, your husband (having had three days in the week for himself/his Masters) doesn't want to do family stuff but wants to have his own time. You are going to exhaust yourself soon, it is not surprising you had PND. I would definitely look to full-time nursery care (not his mum, why the heck should she step in because he doesn't want to look after his own child for more than 2 days a week) and for him to start bringing in a wage. This would put you on a more equal footing regarding finances/time off/housework.

You are doing pretty much 150% of what is required to run your household, your husband is putting in 50% if that. This cannot continue if you are to preserve your own health. When is your down-time, without your child (his is three days a week plus half the weekend, when do you have your child-free opportunity to study/chill/see friends)?

Hi OP, I've waded through the 8 pages of this and I think its both really complex and relatively simple.

The big problem is the mistreatment of your son. Say to DH "I think it would be beneficial for ds to be in nursery 4 days for friends/development/ learning" whatever but not bringing his capabilities in.

Then leave it. Don't ask him what he wants, make helpful suggestions or try to fix him. I firmly believe the only person who's behaviour you can change in this life is your own - that goes for both of you.

Wait a few months knowing that at least your ds is okay during the day before you bring up the big life talk again.

I suggest this as it removes the immediate problem (ds bring shouted at and ignored and DH not wanting to do childcare) and gives you both breathing space.

Do not involve your MIL she is his mum she will always be on his side and do you really want to put another parent in this situation to negotiate with?

I think your DH sounds either depressed or a right piece of work - the suggestion above might help you work out which.

I wouldn't guarantee that daycare is the right solution. OP, you don't actually seem to think it is that bad during the days your DH looks after your DS - unless I've got the wrong end of the stick?

But nursery care might well be the best short term move at least, while the OP reassesses her situation. My concern is the little boy, who deserves proper care, not mostly ok but sometimes bad care. This way his mother can take some time to make the best decision, knowing her son is ok in the meantime.

To me it sounds as though you have high expectations of what family life should entail.

I am wondering what your childhood was like and how that compares with your dh's experience. If he had/has a dad who showed interest in him and genuinely enjoyed spending time with him, it is likely he will do the same with his own child. If he didn't, it will be very hard for him to know how to engage with his child, no matter how badly he wants to or likes the idea of it.

Same with you.

So maybe you could both benefit from individual counselling or strengthening through some sort of feel-good stuff - yoga, swimming, book club.. i don't know but just stuff that you enjoy and that leaves you feeling good. Then you're more likely to feel peaceful and giving towards each other when the pressure's up.

Young children are demanding and one-to-one care can be very intense. Not many parents could manage it calmly all the time.

Maybe you could work towards your son spending more time at the nursery, your dh easing into work as and when the opportunity presents, and you both agreeing to have some set "family times". He may need clearer boundaries about what constitutes family time than you do.

Many men compartmentalise their lives and find it challenging to muster the flexibility required to work/relationships/children/home so your dh is not alone in that respect.

Sorry for delay in posting. Yes, Whowilldomyhoovering is probably right. I think when DH goes to work his self esteem will rise, he'll feel less trapped, more appreciated and rewarded and will no longer feel as he said to me yesterday when we really had it out over this - "that I don't know where my next pair of shoes or tank of fuel is coming from". I explained to him that my money is our money so wtf is he talking about?! But he won't take it and doesn't want my money (stupid male pride), he wants his own, but knows that the best thing is not to work at the moment, to just hang on for another 6-9 months, looking after DS and getting his masters. It is in astrophysics - so yes it will be useful because of the level of maths in it and the university is one of the best in the world so his chances are good - on paper anyway. I have told him two things:

• I will only be doing the housework which I consider essential (baby's washing, cleaning loos, emptying bins and ensuring house is basically hygienic). That is ALL. He won't live in a shit pit - if I don't do it it will force him to if he is around the mess all day.
• I have told him if his attitude doesn't improve, either I will leave or DS will be going into nursery four days a week and he goes back to work while doing his masters and that is that. He agrees but really does not want that to happen. He says hand on heart that things are getting a lot better with DS and he is much less angry. Partly as DS "gets more fun every week" and also he has stopped blaming DS for his own failings and situation and past fuck ups in his late teens and early twenties and trying to work on his anger and depression, which is not anything to do with DS really (he says). He always had a good relationship with his Dad, now deceased - around the same time his life spun off the rails.

Maybe I have too high expectations. I was an only child and always felt we were three people in one house, not a family unit - that's why family time is so important to me and why I wanted a second child. Unrealistic I know maybe, but that's where it comes from I think.