My DH hates family life and I don't know what to do.

[confusedgirlfromtheShire]

Regular poster, namechanged.

Trying to keep a long story short, apologies in advance if any of this sounds perfunctory/cold. Am just trying to keep number of words down.

DH and I are both early thirties and have one DS who is nearly two. Been married 5 years. Together for 9, known each other for 14 years.

Me: high profile work in financial services on high wage, currently working four days a week. Like the job most of the time but very high pressure. Hours not too bad cos I work like a dog when I'm there so get a lot done and don't bring work home. So Mon to Thurs I am out of the house at 6.20am, 1.5 hour commute each way, home around 5.20pm. Have had Chronic Fatigue Syndrome since 2009 which lays me out whenever I have a bad virus, but I'm managing it with diet and lots of rest. House has always been in my name, now mortgage free.

DH: By agreement, does not work. Intelligent, but in his teens and early twenties lacked application, dropped out of uni, a series of jobs but zero "career", no hope of progression. I sorted him out, put him through OU while he was working, where he got a first class degree. We had DS in his final year, then I got PTSD and PND and we agreed because I earned three times what he did and he hated his job anyway he would quit, take on the babycare and we would put our DS in nursery a couple of days a week so my DH could do a masters over two years. He has just completed the first year and done very well. One year to go.

Issues: He really really hates what I term "family life". He doesn't like looking after our toddler, just puts up with it, goes through the motions but there is no real enjoyment there. DH says he feels he has no freedom and no time to himself and that he feels I never want to be on my own with DS. My argument is that I am paying £500 a month to give him Tuesdays and Thursdays to do what he wants as our DS is in nursery a day (DS loves it and is very happy there). Plus, I do Fridays and we are always out and about so he gets most of the day to himself then too. It's 50-50 in the evenings until DS goes to bed then as I go to bed early (9.30pm to recharge for the next day) if DH wants to do his own thing (pottering in the garage or painting his models) I don't mind that either. But apart from specific jobs for an hour or two on Sat and Sunday I expect that to be time where we spend it together as a family, just hanging out, going places etc. DH is pushing back on this, seems really miserable, complains that our DS is such a tie and that it's not me he resents, it's DS and he wants time to do his own thing, and as I don't really have any hobbies, it doesn't make sense for us to just be sitting around the house together as it's a waste of time. He has very few of his own friends. I can't convey how disappointed I am in him and his attitude to our family. I do half the childcare, which is mostly lovely or fine, occasionally difficult, at least half the housework, earn all the money, make all the plans for the future - all my money is OUR money saved for the big things like a better house, DS's education, holidays. DH says he can't wait to be properly working (a year away) ? but he has implicitly indicated that he wants to work his way through his dream list of cars and pursue his own dreams and do his own thing more - money is the only thing that?s stopping him now.

When DS acts up, he swears at him and it is horrible to listen to. Sometimes he sits with him in the playroom but doesn't talk or interact, just stares into space. 70% of the time though he's either good or great.
I made him go to the doctor for depression and he did, but he thinks that his reaction is entirely rational and therefore can't be a mental health issue, so he hasn?t taken it any further. I am angry with him and love him a little less each day. Conversation and general chit chat is poor, we do talk about our issues but never seem to get anywhere. But I am terrified of how I would manage on my own, because of logistics of looking after our son, for one. Weekends are bad because we don't know what to do with ourselves - we fill the time but DH isn't having any fun and that in turn puts me right on edge. Work is a relief in one way, but very stressful sometimes as I said in the beginning.

I cannot believe that this is my life now. I wish I was with someone fun and energetic who liked being a dad. DH says it was a mistake in hindsight to have DS. I don't think that (although I did when I was really ill), and would consider a second, if we got a nanny to help me get over the baby stage, which I hated. I get better with kids the older they are.

Any advice please? Do I stay or go? Any insight into what is going on in DH?s head and whether he is likely to change?

Sorry despite best efforts this has been so long.

I think it's possible that he's just trying to tell you how he feels with some of the stuff he says. Maybe he doesn't actually want you to do anything about it, maybe he's just finding it hard going and wants some sympathy? It sounds like there are some natural points that it will improve anyway like when he completes his Masters, when DS goes to school etc etc.

My DH found it hard when our second child came along, he was definitely depressed and found the childcare really difficult. He would say he regretted having them but he was just expressing his frustration and the fact that he was finding it hard. There wasn't anything I could do really, I knew it would get better with time and actually for him it was massively better once the baby started sleeping well at night.

If you don't want to leave him and you're happy with his care of DS then why not just listen supportively without feeling you have to 'fix' things for him?

I didn't read the whole of your first post, because the first few lines were enough.

You would be better off on your own, with a paid child minder.

Your (D) h is looking for an easy life, someone to support him financially, and no responsibility.

I don't think he's looking for an easy life. So he doesn't much like looking after a boring toddler. He's hardly the first - it's very boring much of the time. The OP's ds loves him and is happy. He might be taking his frustrations out on his wife but that's what you do when you are a sahp. The OP has a productive job and is coming home to 'manage' her husband. Instead of asking what they did how about asking if they had fun? And as Apple said, listen to his complaints. Don't act as if they don't exist or aren't valid.

I really don't like what I'm reading on this thread. The OP really doesn't sound like she values childcare at all and sounds very controlling - she sees herself as the only person who could help her husband. She doesn't seem to think studying for a masters and looking after a toddler is hard. She doesn't seem concerned about her child, just resentful that her husband isn't putting on his lipstick and saying "honey did you have a nice day?" when she walks through the door. I understand that she is doing a lot in terms of childcare and cleaning, etc, on top of a part-time job, but a lot of people in part-time work do this.

The OP's DH sounds depressed and resentful. He probably needs help with this. I'm not sure putting the child into nursery full-time and shoehorning him into is necessarily the only solution to the problem.

It can be really hard for dads to make friends, go to groups, etc. Can he get some support with doing this?

SAHPs often don't get enough positive affirmation or compliments. What is he doing well that she could praise?

@schmee 6.20am - 5.20pm four days a week, in the financial sector and you pass this off a part-time job that 'lots of people' do? I'm sorry, but No. I do not know the OP but have some idea of the pressures, and to belittle these - just how switched-on you absolutely need to be, for 100% of your day -compared to pootling about after a toddler is frankly laughable. Looking after kids takes up all of your time but not your brain-power, it's not 'hard'. If her DH was doing stuff she could praise, I can feel that she would be doing this as she is desperate for the 'family thing' to work. As it seems he is doing very little, I can completely empathasize with her frustration.

god, that poor child. something has to change. Your ds needs to be with someone who wants to be with him, surely? and your DH sounds depressed. what does he really want to do? you say you 'sorted him out' - perhaps you have enabled his intertia.

Once he has finished his masters I would be telling him that he has to get a job, and if that didn't happen, marriage counselling. in the meantime he perhaps needs some counselling to deal with his depression, if he will go.

Good luck.

I don't think he sounds very differen to a lot of sahms I know-bored/resentful of drudgery/occasional ffs. I can also imagine that he doesn't get the sisterly support that I had from other sahms because he's a man.The park/playgroup/cake you describe doesn't sound any less good for ds than what I did. I had to go on a lot of mad nights out as a response to my boredom when I was a sahm.

Competitive complaining is easy to get into when you're both pissed off with a situation.

Are his dreams of cars and so on not just the sanme as my 'if I win the lottery' daydreams. If he really has just become complacent about supporting the family then I'd want to discuss that with a therapist-perhaps he believes he's incapable of that?

So his course doesn't last the whole year-he can hardly get a job in the mean time and an ou 1st/distinctions in exams are very hard work to get.

When I worked part time and when I was a sahm dp and I tried to each have a bit of alone time at weekends-easier when only 1 child.

It is crap what he's saying about family life, but I suspect what he could be saying is he's bored, lonely, emasculated and can't cope.

I think I'd go for counselling so you can both express your feelings on neutral ground.
You might be right-he could be a waste of space loser, I just think it needs further exploration.

I can think of a few reasons why your ds clings to him, and it is nothing to do with good parenting

he clings because he senses your prick of a partner with-holds his affection

I feel sorry for your dc actually, because although I gave you the benefit of the doubt as the OP oif this thread, I don't actually think much of either of you as parents

your OH is a selfish eternal student and you sound like a cold fish who puts the welfare of your cock lodging partner above that of your child

shame on both of you

A few comments saying the OP should make her husband work on this thread. It does say in the first post that he can't wait to be back working.

He doesn't sound lazy to me. An OU first, and half of a Masters behind him, having done very well in it. He might not be a very good SAHD, but that's a different issue.

If he is a high achiever academically, it is hardly surprising that he doesn't want to do manual work. Being the proverbial shoeshine boy with a PHD is soul destroying.

I'm a SAHMwith Doctorate, and I don't find it soul destroying! But I have also done it far more full-time than the OPs DH.

I had a friend in a very similar situation to the OPs. She ended up getting a Nanny, telling her DHto get a job. Then she divorced him. The kids got better child care, and she was happier.

I'm with GoldenFucker.

Get him to stop screaming swears at your son, and both of you get your shit together.

Why is it ok for you to say you hate the baby stage and will have to have a nanny, but not ok for your husband to not enjoy being a SAHD to a toddler?

"My DS adores him. Clings to him like a limpet. DH can't put him down. DS loves being with him, even when DH is just sitting cuddling him staring at the TV or into space, or when he's just been shouted at."

If you think a clingy child, obviously desperate for attention from and used to being ignored by his primary carer is a sign if a good parental bond, you need to adjust your "oh, but he's a great Dad really" man-tinted specs.

Happy, well-adjusted children don't cling like that. It's not a sign of adoration, it's a sign of desperation.

I'm going to have to hide this thread. Some of you are desperate to hate the man, regardless of the situation.

OP - give your DH a break!!!

Meh - if you reversed the sexes on this one you'd have everyone howling for the OP's head.

The problem is if he hates being a SAHD then he should be getting a job and they should use full time child care.
I hate cleaning toilets, but I do it without swearing (out loud at least).

OMG - I would get your DC away from a disinterested, unloving, angry carer. For goodness sake hire an au pair/nanny anyone who will love him more than your DP does. His cruel attitude could cause long term psychological damage imo.

Then let DP sort himself out and, obviously, if he doesn't sort himself out, which he may not as he sounds as though his problems will always be 'caused' by someone else and he will never be happy, leave him. (Though I would agree that looking after small DCs isn't great fun)

With you DC being properly cared for you have the time to decide what you want to do for the long term.

Mickel therapy has helped several friends with chronic fatigue

I've sent you a PM, OP. Can't believe how nasty some people are being on here.

I think it's interesting to mentally reverse the roles.

Many women dont find being a SAHP utterly fulfilling and joyous. A lot of it is mundane. (having said that, the dad here gets 2 days a week when child is in nursery so it's not like he's a full time SAHP)

I also know a number of women whose husbands out-earn them by a lot, and who are generally the 'go-getting' half the couple, the one who gets the respect and recognition, while the wife is invisible.

It sounds like this situation to me. He isn't happy with aspects of his life.
Where I begin to lose sympathy is that he seems to think he's in a position to cherry pick what he'd like to do. With the child in nursery 2 days a week, dad has no excuses and ought to be working, or doing something which is productive. And a word about the endless studying... (I might get flamed for saying this but it's true) I know DOZENS of SAHM who jump on the studying bandwagon and use the time for a OU degree, or masters or even phd, and it's not about furthering their career prospects , it's about doing something they want and can be self indulgent

(disclaimer: I realise that this isn't the case with every SAHM who studies, but it can be, I know cases where it's definitely a way of putting off facing the real world)

I don't doubt the dh's intelligence. However, pure intelligence is worth very little without the emotional intelligence to put it to good use. And a willingness to deal with what life brings is paramount. The dh seems to have very little resilience, and if he's not being offered what he wants (and thinks he deserves) then he sulks and feels hard done by.

I also think he may get a big reality check when he eventually finsishes studying and realises he's up against people of equal intelligence, with degrees plus years of hands on experience.... It's a tough world out there and I get the feeling he's got an inflated sense of his own worth

Op- the only advice I can offer is that you try to step back a bit and stop feeling that only you can 'sort' things for him. He is an adult. He has to shape his own life. Supported by you emotionally, sure, but not led by you. Don't keep asking him what you can do to make things better. Stay quiet, and then next time he complains about your ds or his life, ask him what HE will do to change things. Treat him like an equal, not another child. Make sure your expectations of him are as an adult, not a kid. You love him, but it's not your role to 'rescue' him, or plan his life for him.

It sounds to me as if the OP is a slave-driver personality, working herself into the ground (--> chronic fatigue) and thinking that her DH also should have his time structured 7/7. He is quite rightly resisting such a demanding and controlled existence. She needs to give him a break... and to give herself one too.

My H too is a stay at home dad who works part time cash in hand. He wouldn't have chosen to be and really does by enjoy looking after 2 under 2 - and I don't blame him. It's hard frustrating work and absolutely NOT what he ever dreamed of doing. I work full time and the only semi break he used to get was on a Wednesday when we had a babysitter come in for the day and on a Monday when my eldest went to nursery (still ha the baby to deal with).

He also felt miserable as stressed and resented the act that we had ever had kids. The way he put it was "this inst how I ever imagined my life being". But I thought those thoughts were totally valid. I also would hate to be a stay at home parent.

That doesn't mean both of us don't love our children or that he is a bad dad.

We solved the issue by getting a live in au pair / housekeeper / nanny whatever you want to call it. She helps with the kids, does some of the housework and is always on han for babysitting if he gets last minute work. Now he is less pressured he is doing lots more round the house (DIY projects), is getting more work, and enjoys his time with the kids 100x more than he did. He is now very playful and enjoys family time because we also get time to ourselves as a couple more often.

I know it's easy to suggest when you can afford to do this. We are very lucky in that I earn (just) enough to manage it (albeit I had to put stuff back in the supermarket last night because I didn't have enough left in my account to pay for food). Yes we are making some sacrifices to scrape te money together to pay for the help but BOY does it make a difference - for both of us.

He is happier, we are both less stressed, there are 3 pairs of hands to help rather than 2. Thus the kids are also happier and we have more patience with them and more "fun" time rather than exasperated, "oh my god I cannot deal with this" time.

If you can afford it I would give it a try.

Mumbles quietly - if in doubt pick an old, ugly au pair, if it can happen to Sienna Miller.... ours is 56!

Janey68 speaks a lot of sense.
I do feel very sorry for your ds; he sounds insecure.

Please don't suggest teaching to your dh though, not unless he has a burning desire to inspire young people.

"he is furious that the world has lied to him about how wonderful it is when the reality is so different and it's just drudgery, repetitive, boring drudgery. But we are so lucky and there are loads of things to do where we live. Every day I ask what they have done and it's packed out with shopping, coffee and cake, park, hanging out in the garden, visit to the MIL, playgroup....it sounds ok to me!"

I kind of agree with him there . . . my days with toddlers looked fun like that but I used to call it drudgery. My DH used to get fed up with coming home to a grumpy me when he'd had a stressful day at work and I'd been at home "playing with the kids all day." When I look back at it I can see why. But I don't like being with toddlers - I love being at home with a baby, but when they are at the "Mum-meeeeeeeee" stage I find it really hard. When my eldest two were toddlers I remember saying to DH that I felt "desperate" - I didn't know what I was desperate for, but the feeling was desperation. It passed, because it does, and I realised that the problem was mine.

However I did it 5 days a week, and I would like to think things would have been better if I had had 2 days off. It certainly improved when the oldest went to pre-school. With DC3 I have been keener to get back to work than I had imagined. I would have loved to have worked but felt too guilty/jobs available did not fit round DH's work etc.

One of my favourite films is City Slickers - feel-good, mid-life-crisis movie. The hero hates his job and isn't very good at it. At the end of the film his wife asks him "are you going to leave your job?" and he says "No, I'm just going to be better at it." I have found that works for me - every time I have hated something I am doing, like being a SAHM or one of my jobs, I have found that if I try harder to do a good job I enjoy it more. Usually the reason I am not enjoying it is that I am doing it half-arsed and deep down I know it.

I guess my ultimatum for your DH would be:

• I am sick of your moaning and swearing at/ignoring DS and dragging me down with your attitude. This is what you WANTED, what we AGREED

• Either do a better job and stop moaning at me, or DS goes in to nursery full time

• If DS goes into nursery full time, you need to get a job to pay the fees. That's ANY job - shelf stacking, cleaning, anything.