My DH hates family life and I don't know what to do.

[confusedgirlfromtheShire]

Regular poster, namechanged.

Trying to keep a long story short, apologies in advance if any of this sounds perfunctory/cold. Am just trying to keep number of words down.

DH and I are both early thirties and have one DS who is nearly two. Been married 5 years. Together for 9, known each other for 14 years.

Me: high profile work in financial services on high wage, currently working four days a week. Like the job most of the time but very high pressure. Hours not too bad cos I work like a dog when I'm there so get a lot done and don't bring work home. So Mon to Thurs I am out of the house at 6.20am, 1.5 hour commute each way, home around 5.20pm. Have had Chronic Fatigue Syndrome since 2009 which lays me out whenever I have a bad virus, but I'm managing it with diet and lots of rest. House has always been in my name, now mortgage free.

DH: By agreement, does not work. Intelligent, but in his teens and early twenties lacked application, dropped out of uni, a series of jobs but zero "career", no hope of progression. I sorted him out, put him through OU while he was working, where he got a first class degree. We had DS in his final year, then I got PTSD and PND and we agreed because I earned three times what he did and he hated his job anyway he would quit, take on the babycare and we would put our DS in nursery a couple of days a week so my DH could do a masters over two years. He has just completed the first year and done very well. One year to go.

Issues: He really really hates what I term "family life". He doesn't like looking after our toddler, just puts up with it, goes through the motions but there is no real enjoyment there. DH says he feels he has no freedom and no time to himself and that he feels I never want to be on my own with DS. My argument is that I am paying £500 a month to give him Tuesdays and Thursdays to do what he wants as our DS is in nursery a day (DS loves it and is very happy there). Plus, I do Fridays and we are always out and about so he gets most of the day to himself then too. It's 50-50 in the evenings until DS goes to bed then as I go to bed early (9.30pm to recharge for the next day) if DH wants to do his own thing (pottering in the garage or painting his models) I don't mind that either. But apart from specific jobs for an hour or two on Sat and Sunday I expect that to be time where we spend it together as a family, just hanging out, going places etc. DH is pushing back on this, seems really miserable, complains that our DS is such a tie and that it's not me he resents, it's DS and he wants time to do his own thing, and as I don't really have any hobbies, it doesn't make sense for us to just be sitting around the house together as it's a waste of time. He has very few of his own friends. I can't convey how disappointed I am in him and his attitude to our family. I do half the childcare, which is mostly lovely or fine, occasionally difficult, at least half the housework, earn all the money, make all the plans for the future - all my money is OUR money saved for the big things like a better house, DS's education, holidays. DH says he can't wait to be properly working (a year away) ? but he has implicitly indicated that he wants to work his way through his dream list of cars and pursue his own dreams and do his own thing more - money is the only thing that?s stopping him now.

When DS acts up, he swears at him and it is horrible to listen to. Sometimes he sits with him in the playroom but doesn't talk or interact, just stares into space. 70% of the time though he's either good or great.
I made him go to the doctor for depression and he did, but he thinks that his reaction is entirely rational and therefore can't be a mental health issue, so he hasn?t taken it any further. I am angry with him and love him a little less each day. Conversation and general chit chat is poor, we do talk about our issues but never seem to get anywhere. But I am terrified of how I would manage on my own, because of logistics of looking after our son, for one. Weekends are bad because we don't know what to do with ourselves - we fill the time but DH isn't having any fun and that in turn puts me right on edge. Work is a relief in one way, but very stressful sometimes as I said in the beginning.

I cannot believe that this is my life now. I wish I was with someone fun and energetic who liked being a dad. DH says it was a mistake in hindsight to have DS. I don't think that (although I did when I was really ill), and would consider a second, if we got a nanny to help me get over the baby stage, which I hated. I get better with kids the older they are.

Any advice please? Do I stay or go? Any insight into what is going on in DH?s head and whether he is likely to change?

Sorry despite best efforts this has been so long.

It's not just that the OP's husband doesn't want to do childcare, he doesn't seem to want to work either. He should do one or the other!

Just re-read your OP - so your DH actually only has your DS on his own 2 days a week, is that right? and then bitches because he doesn't get enough time on his own to do his own thing? But he has Tues, Thurs and most of Friday to do exactly that.

Ask him what exactly he wants out of life - because it sounds to me like he wants to live a single man's lifestyle, with the benefits of a wife and child who don't inconvenience him in any way.

Despotic, the OP said her husband reckons having their DS was a mistake and he swears at the poor child and refuses to play with him. That is very very close to abuse and neglect. Looking after a toddler is very hard work and can be soul destroying but a good parent will do their best, stay calm with the child as much as possible, certainly not swear at them and at least engage with them talk to them and play a little. Saying a child was a mistake is a horrible attitude - the child will definitely pick up on it.

Your assertion that "some blokes are not very good at childcare" is just pointless. If you're not good at childcare tough fucking shit, you have a child and unless you're going to send them out for adoption it's your responsibility to give that child a good upbringing. You can't just say "I'm not good at it" and wash your hands. The idea that you can just decide that you're not good at being a parent and not make the effort is really quite awful - you are that child's one and only dad, they will never have another - do you really want to fail someone in that way? Regardless of feelings, swearing at a child is never ever acceptable.

The husband only looks after the child on his own 2 days a week. That is a tiny amount of time. It's not as if the OP expects him to be tied to playroom making playdoh 24/7. I agree with what you say however about it really not being a good idea for the OP to consider having another child.

What does he want to do, OP? Has he any constructive suggestions to make eg that he gets a job or you get a nanny? Or does he just think that if he whines and sulks enough you will let him do what he wants ie no housework, no childcare and bringing in no income, indefinitely.

@DespoticDad - not anti-man sentiment (from me anyway!). It's hard to stick up for anyone who tells you they think "in hindsight" it was a bad idea to have a child and then puts in little effort to making a difficult situation work. Someone like you, who is obviously interested enough to read the posts on here and make suggestions is in a different league. If, like you said yourself, OP's DH held his hands up and says 'I'm not so good at this, what other options work for us as a family?' that's very different from him sulking and stropping and wanting time off to suit only himself with little regard for his family what-should-be responsibilities.

@DespoticDad - not anti-man sentiment (from me anyway!). It's hard to stick up for anyone who tells you they think "in hindsight" it was a bad idea to have a child and then puts in little effort to making a difficult situation work. Someone like you, who is obviously interested enough to read the posts on here and make suggestions is in a different league. If, like you said yourself, OP's DH held his hands up and says 'I'm not so good at this, what other options work for us as a family?' that's very different from him sulking and stropping and wanting time off to suit only himself with little regard for his family what-should-be responsibilities.

whoops, double post, bad connection here!

I know plenty of SAHM who a miserable, disorganised and resentful towards their children so I don't think gender is the issue here. The solution is to get someone else to do the childcare and get your H to find a part time job (any) even if it is volunteering and finishing his studies. If you can afford it, go for it. Life is too short to be miserable and childhood is too precious to be wasted like this. Also if he doesn't enjoy being a dad just now and you hate the baby phase I can't see why you should have anymore children together.

I agree with WhoWillDoMyHoovering - it's quite one thing to sulk and be completely hideous towards a child because you resent them and do nothing about it expect bitch and moan, than to hold your hands up and admit it isn't the right thing for your family and look at changing the situation positively.

OP, I think that your 'D'H needs to have it all laid out with the consequences of him carrying on like this towards your DS and you; namely that you and DS would be leaving him to it. Decisions need to be made regarding whether your DS is in full time nursery/childcare or whether you would go part-time and your DH would then get a job. I also think there needs to be a frank discussion regarding your time spent as a family and whether your DH can see a positive future in how you spend your free time together, rather than his desire in spending it pursuing his own interests all the time.

In regards to my own family, I have found that I have resented DH and the 2 DCs at times, but I never let my DCs know that and I've tried my hardest to be positive for them, especially as we made the decision to have them and however hard and tedious it can be, I love them. I also talked through with my DH about where my resentment lies - mainly in the fact that I feel powerless and trapped, but I've started a degree through the OU and once a month get some time alone which DH agreed was a better balance for us. I also found that after DS2 was born, I was struggling more and more so we put DS1 into a pre-school for 12 hours a week and the change in him and me is amazing.

I think that if there is a positive outlook from both people in the relationship in looking at the changes you can make to create a harmonious family life, then there is hope. Good luck confusedgirl - I just worry that you've already tried to give your DH the moon as it were, and this situation is irretrievable, but I think you sound strong.

It sounds like he just simply doesn't want to be a stay at home Dad. Forget the fact that he is male. A lot of women don't enjoy being stay at home Mums. Maybe a man finds it harder to keep patience than a woman. But I don't honestly believe that.

Sorry but I think you have all the good things and choice and he is left with what he doesn't want. And I know finances have to be taken into consideration but a job shouldn't always be judged on how much money it can bring in. I know that is sometimes impossible in some cases. Why can't your DS go to nursery or childminder and your DH get a job if that's what he wants to do.

OP, ask yourself this: if you had a nanny or a childminder who treats your child the way your husband does, would you keep employing them? I think you know the answer is a resounding NO. He is being neglectful and abusive. Did you know that one of the most traumatising things that can happen to a small child (which can affect them for life) is being cared for by a person orpersons that display little or no facial expressions? You say he just sits there blankly staring into space; can you imagine how terrifying, confusing and upsetting that must be for a small child?! And if he's not doing that then he's swearing and being exasperated. Christ, a nanny being that shit would have less detrimental effect on a child because this is his beloved Daddy who is like this, one of the two people who is whole world and his future role model as a man. I'm sure he does some okay things, even some nice things too, but they are pointless in the face of being like this.

You soind so capable that you sound like you could cope better than most juggling your career and childcare. Childcare would be infinitely better than his father's care, by the sound of it, and I am a SAHM because I don't want my child in childcare, so I do not say that lightly at all.

He, on the other hand, sounds vile. An immature, entitled arse and YOU are enabling him and allowing him to emotionally abuse your son. I can't believe how much you do and he is still resentful, pathetic and doing a terrible job. Do you understand that he will never change, never get better, only get worse and worse? The longer this pattern of him living like this and getting away with this continues, the harder it will be to break and it will seem more and more unreasonable of you to insist on it (ie "how come it was fine in the past, then?"). I am certainly not trigger happy with the 'leave the bastard' comments, but I truly do believe your life will actually be easier and less stressful as a single mother. Also, and don't take this the wrong way, I care less about your needs than I do your son's. The way he's being treated by his father is abusive and terrible and no amount of loveliness and care on your part or anyone else's can stop it affecting him adversely.

I would say, try to stop thinking about what people should be feeling and think about what they are feeling. I also find the suggestion that you should 'send him to work' tbh very shocking.

He says that having your DS was a mistake. How much did you discuss it beforehand? Was he all for it then? Or did he express fears and doubts but you convinced him? I am not excusing him- openly displaying resentfulness of a child is a horrible way to act, but I am just wondering if you have a history of being the dominant decision- maker? "I sorted him out" sounds pretty chilling to me. Did you ever see him as an equal, and love him?

I think he sounds depressed and possibly has choices made for him.

Not sure about this OP. Are you grateful for what he does do? He left his job for you and your ds because from the sounds of it you didn't want to stay at home. You say he gets snippy at having to 'sit around all day' instead of doing something interesting. I would too. You want someone fun and energetic but need a lot of rest yourself. I'm not really sure at all what you want. Perhaps counselling would help you think things through. Falling out of love can become a habit so I do suggest taking action. If you're making your feelings clear it would be a pretty big demotivator. I don't think not always being a helicopter parent and the odd bit of cursing is terrible.

I'm sitting on my hands as I know the OP and can't post without bias. I keep typing replies but they all sound rather defensive.

I think there is more info she could share, that wouldn't be drip-feeding but simply there's a lot of ground to cover. The job issue has been discussed by both of them I think - if DH seriously wanted one now he could go for it. Anyway, back to hand-sitting for me.

Not got long - will try and respond properly later or tomorrow. Thank you for all your comments so far....

The idea of putting DS in nursery two whole days a week was to allow DH to go out to work if he got occasional days with his mate - that hasn't happened. Very happy for him to work and I would drop back to three days a week. But there are no jobs around or nothing he wants to do. He is sick of manual work and thinks he is better than that - I really don't care - I just want him to be happy. He wants to join my company eventually when he has his masters - I am very scared about him failing because with no meaningful work history what are his chances (although he is articulate and confident and eloquent at interview).

I saw/see him as equal to me in most respects and superior in intelligence but in serious need of help to turn his life around - I did that BECAUSE I loved him and knew I could help him and no one else could.

His anger To explain - mainly he internalises his misery apart from the occasional once a day "for fuck's sake!" shouted at DS or yelling at him when DS hits or scratches him. I shout too when I have to, but I cuddle and kiss ten times more than I shout. Or he is obviously quietly furious and looks ready to blow.

PND - I would want a nanny for the first year. I am not good with babies up to a year - well, I really don't enjoy it. Toddlers - generally good and getting better. Kids and teenagers - great. So I would try to get through the first year and then I know I would be fine. But obviously not at the moment, and indeed maybe never with my DH.

Got to go now, but will try to post later and answer specific questions. Thank you again all.

Put your dc in full time nursery and insist your H finds work, whether he "likes" it or not

You have been mollycoddling only one child here, and that is your H

Your real child you have been leaving with a man who thinks the poor mite is simply an inconvenience

Nursery staff won't treat him like a chore, believe me

Ultimately you should get shut of your cocklodging H, but I suspect you still think he is just a bit stressed and the sun still shines outta his grasping asshole

but there you go, let's hope you don't have another unwanted child before you see the light

Your story is very similar to mine in that my ex hated family life especially days out which he felt were doing things for the sake of it. He also set up our situation so that I worked long hours earning decent money so that he didn't have to work and just earn his own spending money pursuing his hobbies. He was also very clever but horribly selfish and would actively ignore the children until they went away. It was painful to watch and I grew to hate him for it. He was eventually diagnosed with depression and thankfully left. While it us hard on my own I am so much happier and free to live life my own way, not treading on eggshells around him. Your partner will not essentially change. Definitely leave - you will be happier as will your child.

DespoticDad - he gets Tues, Thurs and Fri plus nearly every evening "off duty" - a lot of that is for his course but only between October and early May during lecture and exam season. The five months of summer is dissertation time but he only needs to do a few hours a week if that (or so he says). He was a total nightmare during his exam period (this is the fifth year running of exams) but his attitude towards me and DS was hideous at that time. So much so that when he told me he had got distinctions in all his exams I could barely say well done.

I start a discussion seemingly every week about "is this working for you? What could we do to make it better?" but he says that this is the best option! So what more can I do?!

Others who have talked about effect of poor quality care - this is the odd bit. My DS adores him. Clings to him like a limpet. DH can't put him down. DS loves being with him, even when DH is just sitting cuddling him staring at the TV or into space, or when he's just been shouted at. When he cries he always wants Daddy not me. He is a very happy little boy and nursery say so too. I can see absolutely no ill effects from DH's influence at all or DH would be gone by now, or the arrangements would be different, believe me.

There is some good advice here, and I am sorry for you who are in the same boat as me or have been. My mother would love this thread, she has been passively aggressively saying the same thing for a while but not with the typical Mumsnet directness. My MIL on the other hand thinks that DH has it just as hard as I do because he studies and has to look after a toddler!

I genuinely don't know what job DH could do? Grad schemes for the top companies only recruit once a year so he is applying in January. Otherwise, I have suggested him setting himself up as a handyman as he is very good at DIY, train as an electrician, plumber, plasterer, work for his mate's company who would have him like a shot... physics or maths teaching.... no avail.

To answer an earlier question, we had DS because everyone else was having kids and we thought, why not, we'd be good parents. But DH says he is furious that the world has lied to him about how wonderful it is when the reality is so different and it's just drudgery, repetitive, boring drudgery. But we are so lucky and there are loads of things to do where we live. Every day I ask what they have done and it's packed out with shopping, coffee and cake, park, hanging out in the garden, visit to the MIL, playgroup....it sounds ok to me! Especially with three days off a week! So on the face of it everything looks normal and good and no one would ever know what's really going on behind closed doors.

Of course your little boy adores his dad. That doesn't mean his care is good enough.

Abused children often cling to the abusive parent because they love them and they want to appease them. I am not saying your dh is abusive, but just to show you a child's love is pretty much unconditional.

30% of the time ignoring or swearing at the child is not compensated for adequately by 70% good times. He is not suited to being a SAHP, he should stop.

It sounds like he is just resents the responsibilities of having a child. He wants to have his cake and eat, the money to do what he wants when he wants.

I think most of us would like this too but are better at compromising on it.

So this lazy selfish prick thinks he can just waltz into a job with your employers, does he? Honestly, get rid of him as soon as possible, becaue he's not going to get a top job just because he thinks the world owes him a living. He is soon going to start bullying you more directly and 'punishing' you for the fact that your employers didn;t want to employ him.