My DH hates family life and I don't know what to do.

[confusedgirlfromtheShire]

Regular poster, namechanged.

Trying to keep a long story short, apologies in advance if any of this sounds perfunctory/cold. Am just trying to keep number of words down.

DH and I are both early thirties and have one DS who is nearly two. Been married 5 years. Together for 9, known each other for 14 years.

Me: high profile work in financial services on high wage, currently working four days a week. Like the job most of the time but very high pressure. Hours not too bad cos I work like a dog when I'm there so get a lot done and don't bring work home. So Mon to Thurs I am out of the house at 6.20am, 1.5 hour commute each way, home around 5.20pm. Have had Chronic Fatigue Syndrome since 2009 which lays me out whenever I have a bad virus, but I'm managing it with diet and lots of rest. House has always been in my name, now mortgage free.

DH: By agreement, does not work. Intelligent, but in his teens and early twenties lacked application, dropped out of uni, a series of jobs but zero "career", no hope of progression. I sorted him out, put him through OU while he was working, where he got a first class degree. We had DS in his final year, then I got PTSD and PND and we agreed because I earned three times what he did and he hated his job anyway he would quit, take on the babycare and we would put our DS in nursery a couple of days a week so my DH could do a masters over two years. He has just completed the first year and done very well. One year to go.

Issues: He really really hates what I term "family life". He doesn't like looking after our toddler, just puts up with it, goes through the motions but there is no real enjoyment there. DH says he feels he has no freedom and no time to himself and that he feels I never want to be on my own with DS. My argument is that I am paying £500 a month to give him Tuesdays and Thursdays to do what he wants as our DS is in nursery a day (DS loves it and is very happy there). Plus, I do Fridays and we are always out and about so he gets most of the day to himself then too. It's 50-50 in the evenings until DS goes to bed then as I go to bed early (9.30pm to recharge for the next day) if DH wants to do his own thing (pottering in the garage or painting his models) I don't mind that either. But apart from specific jobs for an hour or two on Sat and Sunday I expect that to be time where we spend it together as a family, just hanging out, going places etc. DH is pushing back on this, seems really miserable, complains that our DS is such a tie and that it's not me he resents, it's DS and he wants time to do his own thing, and as I don't really have any hobbies, it doesn't make sense for us to just be sitting around the house together as it's a waste of time. He has very few of his own friends. I can't convey how disappointed I am in him and his attitude to our family. I do half the childcare, which is mostly lovely or fine, occasionally difficult, at least half the housework, earn all the money, make all the plans for the future - all my money is OUR money saved for the big things like a better house, DS's education, holidays. DH says he can't wait to be properly working (a year away) ? but he has implicitly indicated that he wants to work his way through his dream list of cars and pursue his own dreams and do his own thing more - money is the only thing that?s stopping him now.

When DS acts up, he swears at him and it is horrible to listen to. Sometimes he sits with him in the playroom but doesn't talk or interact, just stares into space. 70% of the time though he's either good or great.
I made him go to the doctor for depression and he did, but he thinks that his reaction is entirely rational and therefore can't be a mental health issue, so he hasn?t taken it any further. I am angry with him and love him a little less each day. Conversation and general chit chat is poor, we do talk about our issues but never seem to get anywhere. But I am terrified of how I would manage on my own, because of logistics of looking after our son, for one. Weekends are bad because we don't know what to do with ourselves - we fill the time but DH isn't having any fun and that in turn puts me right on edge. Work is a relief in one way, but very stressful sometimes as I said in the beginning.

I cannot believe that this is my life now. I wish I was with someone fun and energetic who liked being a dad. DH says it was a mistake in hindsight to have DS. I don't think that (although I did when I was really ill), and would consider a second, if we got a nanny to help me get over the baby stage, which I hated. I get better with kids the older they are.

Any advice please? Do I stay or go? Any insight into what is going on in DH?s head and whether he is likely to change?

Sorry despite best efforts this has been so long.

An au pair or full time nursery is the way forward I think. He can work part time and contribute to the cost, complete his masters and then get a full time job. Can you afford a cleaner so you don't have to do the housework? I think you have to protect your DS, if that means getting legal advice and securing your position as main caregiver then you do that.
If he was doing 5 days on his own and studying at night, I'd have more sympathy, but he does two days a week!!
I think OP is trying to control the situation out of desperation to make it work. I don't like all this talk about emasculation. The H is choosing to remain in the situation and the plans for spending his future earnings on dream cars just sounds like when he does work he expects OP to still pick up the tab!

I think he hates childcare, not his children, and resents being 'lumbered' with it. I don't blame him - I'd feel the same. It sounds like OP doesn't much like children either, opening regretted having the child early on, doesn't show any enthusiasm (according to her DH) for spending time on her own with the child.

I think he is fed up with his role, resents his wife's career and money. I have spoken to some SAHDs at my H's work xmas do. They all put a brave face on it, but if you chatted to them for any length of time they felt frustrated, felt they'd had to give up who they were, all their hobbies, and didn't fit in with the mums at the kids groups, so didn't go, and ended up very lonely. Being a SAHM is hard, but at least there is the outlet of mum and baby groups etc

I'd say get full time childcare and let him go back to work full time. It might result in a drop in disposable income as his starting salary may not be very good. It would give the child a more positive carer, and the husband the adult life he so obviously craves.

Wow this thread got huge, I have tried to read it all but toddler of my own makes it difficult! So apologise if I have missed some key stuff. I think uyou said he has a goo time when he is with the child in the week, they do coffe and cake and playgroups etc . So he can do it! What is going worng at weekends that means he wants "time off"? My boy was very hard to keep enetertained until he got to about three and half. Money was tight and when my partner insisted we went to zoos, theme parks etc it got really frustrating to pay £50 just to push him round in his puschair while he fell asleep and ignored the animals. I used to love the days when she would take him to her sisters and I could go fishing for a few hours or even a night away on my mates boat, I'd get that once a month and it kept me sane. Now he is a lot more fun though!

Lots of people seem to have jumped to the conclusion that he is using you as a meal ticket, if this is true it is very bad. But you say he chose to give up woirk because you were ill. And noiw he is a student, so not earning again. Is it a vanity project degree on ancient egypt etc, or will it really help him to get into work afterwards? If he has givben up all his income then this may be a source of friction. If he expects you to pay for him to have ever y night down the pub that is not on, but if he is taking a break fromn earning to get a head in future then maybe he is finding that tough. Plenty of SAHM mums complain about money worries. But it sounds to me like he has actually made himself worse off by being a SAHM dad! How can he be on the "gravy train" when he is stuck doing childcarew and he doesn't like it. Is every SAHM mum on the gravy train as well?!?!

Having two days off is a luxury that he should be extremely greateful for, but it deosn't sound like he has much of a life outside you and the baby, especially if he is trying to cram a masters into those two days (And doing enough on it to do well!). If you say he doesn't have any friends. then all he has is baby groups full of women - is that what he wants?

OF course he is the man so is entirely to blame for the siutuation though.... ;)

I sort of empathise with your DH. I have been 'lucky' on paper, but depressed in RL. He sounds depressed.

Have you talked to him seriously about your future together? I wonder if he'd be better off without you - he'd have to stop relying on you and standing on his own two feet would improve his confidence and probably his mood. Maybe you'd be better off without him - you already are financially independent and your DS could do an extra two days nursery.

Whatever you decide, I think having another baby together would be a big mistake.

Can I just say again - he has three days off - Tuesday, Thursday (nursery) and Friday (OP). He only has to do childcare 2 days a week!

I am intrigued by the dynamics of the relationship before you had your child . It sounds as though your DH was the 'child' up til then- you actually describe 'sorting him out', getting him on the right track. That's the kind of language you use about one of your kids, not your partner. Then, a little while later real child comes along and your Dh feels displaced. It's almost as though he's slightly jealous of his son, Because the child gets to be looked after, and doesn't have any responsibilities.

And again, this reminds me very much of relationships where successful, go- getting male seems out lower- achieving woman. That way he gets to stay in control, he ultimately calls the shots. She's the 'wife-child' who can look pretty and charming but he doesn't really deep down respect her.

Sorry if this sounds harsh , but I think any chance of putting this right means reflecting on what attracted you in the first place. Did you want someone to 'rescue'? Do you put him on some kind of pedestal because he's intelligent, and therefore make excuses and justifications for him?
(as in a role reversal, successful man might be bowled over by pretty young wife)

It just doesn't sound like it was ever a relationship between equals tbh. That's the bottom line.

Janey, you said upthread: 'I know DOZENS of SAHM who jump on the studying bandwagon ... and it's not about furthering their career prospects , it's about doing something they want and can be self indulgent'

er, so what?! I'd love to do this one day, and if DH and I are happy with that, what business is it of yours? Is study only worthwhile if it leads to a highly paid job? Do you speak so disrespectfully of school leavers who go to uni to read history or philosophy?

Janey, you said upthread: 'I know DOZENS of SAHM who jump on the studying bandwagon ... and it's not about furthering their career prospects , it's about doing something they want and can be self indulgent'

Yes, a bit cheeky, big assumptions here, it can be a way of keeping your braincells alive whilst a sahm. I did several courses and might do more now retired.

Limeleaflzard- read my whole post rather than cherry picking a piece out of context

No- there is nothing wrong with studying per se. And a degree in history or philosophy at a good university is very hard to get into, and can be an excellent route into a career.

I am talking of situations where an adult becomes an 'eternal student' as a self indulgence and to avoid facing the next step in life. There is a whole industry out there nowadays whereby you could spend your entire life doing another module, or another degree.

I am a total believer in education for its own sake, and hats off to anyone who is studying because they find it enriching, interesting etc etc. But i made it very clear in my post that I was talking about situation where it's indulgent because it's about avoiding stepping up to other responsibilities

He sounds depressed tbh. Can men get PND ?

I also think being a stay at home parent is mind-numbingly depressing and frustrating ..there has been weeks , occasionally , when the only adults who I've spoken to have been dh , the window cleaner and the postman. It made me resentful of my dc ( and like ops dh I've spoken to dh about that ) .

The problem is that being a sahp isn't all it's cracked up to be ...yes it's nice to spend time with the dc , but it does nothing for your self esteem .You don't earn money or mix with people on a daily basis , unless they are sahps themselves . That makes for dull conversations and the competitive parent nightmares , because they have nothing else to talk about than when their pfb /dc started potty training/walking .

I tried going to a mum and toddlers group once . They seemed friendly until I tried to talk about something other than hollyoaks , their eyes glazed over and the conversation turned to the shades of fake tan they preferred. I slipped out unnoticed and never went back. I supposed it would be worse for a sahd , if he got over the shocked looks and judging attitudes ( why is he not a work ? , ect)
, then how would he enjoy sitting chatting about crap ? .

Dad and toddler groups are just everywhere ..not

Fwiw I think the ops dh is trying his best , he is studying at quite a high level , and still manages to do things with his ds ,( parks , cafes ect) . And he's quite right to want time off under the circumstances . If he wasn't studying then it would be different . Poor guys probably exhausted . .

As for the free loading comments , nice way to make every sahp feel undervalued , or does that just apply to the men ? .

Ps- the op says her dh got a first class degree, but quit his job to do a masters because he hated his job. The chances are, after his masters he might Still hate whatever job he gets. A masters these days does not fast track you into some perfect job of your choosing- particularly when you have very little solid experience in the workplace. So what happens then? Does he start on a PhD because he 'hates his job'?

It's one thing to be studying to keep your brain cells going or because it's furthering your career, quite another to do it because you don't l

Oops- because you don't like your job.

WTAF .

Studying is self indulgent ? . Yes .

But it's a damn site easier when you don't have a small child to look after when your doing your masters .

Honestly , think back to the workload you had to do when you were at uni/college , now tell me it was easy .

No one does degrees fro the kudos of having one , they study and earn them to get a better career . That means money to provide for the dc , that means making things easier on their spouse (financially anyway) .

Lots of women have felt frustrated at being a SAHP. But historically most women have found pursuing a career as the way out of that. The husband here doesn't seem to be making his best effort on that front. Instead he seems to think it's the OP's job to fix his life for him - to try to be fair, that does seem to be the pattern. However, he needs to step up to being a dad.
I think perfectstorm gave good advice early on here. I would put your DS in nursery full time - you've said he loves it - and tell your husband to spend more time on finding a job, but that he must stop moaning about the weekends. If it all goes pear shaped then you aren't stuck with him as reluctant second rate carer you have to bankroll.

And if you have a masters , in theory , you should end up with a better paid job/slightly more choice .

And another comment about bankrolling a spouse .

So when it's a man working and a woman as a sahp that's ok then ?

Women fought for equal right and earned them .

It does mean an equal right to be the " breadwinner" in the family , and doesn't make you superior to the sahp .

I think most female SAHPs who felt frustrated and then moved to using childcare two days a week while they did their masters, plus who had their partner around on the final weekday, would feel some relief and that their lot had improved. The husband here seems to be intent on continuing to moan until he is allowed to do his own thing all day every day. Not fair.

I think people had different motives for doing a degree droves that's all

I am not disputing that it can be hard work, not that the OPs dh isn't intelligent- he obviously is.

Some people study because it's a clear pathway to getting ahead in their career and earning more; some do it with no intention of it improving their career prospects- its purely because they want to. Which is fine if you are self supporting, or have another adult willing to support you financially to do that. But not if there is conflict about it (as with op)

The bottom line is- the DH has already dropped out of uni once. He then got a very good degree through the OU, but stopped working because he hated his job. He's now doing a masters- but there is no evidence it will make him more employable (or indeed that he's like his job if he got one anyway). So no, I certainly don't think there is one simple reason why people study- its far more complex than that

Also, if you read my posts in their entirety you'll see I'm not simply ' blaming' the dh. I am really intrigued by the ops role in all this, because it strikes me that she has picked up the dh as someone she loves and admires but needs to 'rescue'. She 'sorted him out' to do a degree as he had dropped out of uni before, and was also totally agreeable to him giving up work because this seemed to suit her then. I think it's only now that she's realising the situation isn't ok and wants it to change. My posts have been mainly about urging her to reflect on the dynamics of the relationship. Why does she feel she needs to map his life out? Why is she treating him like a child and then complaining when he behaves like one?

To my mind it's not about one partner being right and one wrong- I think for their own reasons, each partner has bought into a relationship which is not of equals- and now it's coming back to bite them both

So if you don't like your job , and decent jobs are hard to find , what do you do to find a decent job if you don't study or retrain ?

According to some you should just suck it up and get on with doing a job you hate .

The dh's days "off" , probably get used up with his studies /writing thesis ect/research ect .

droves - bankrolling describes what is going on here, which is not a working parent and a stay at home parent acting as a team as they should be. There would also , rightly, be criticism of a woman in this position. This man complains about and doesn't like his son yet refuses to do anything to improve the situation.

I do a masters, work was full time before mat leave, 3 days a week from September, the other two days I will be looking after Ds. I'm also starting another masters with a view to career change whilst doing the above. Ds is in childcare when I'm at work. I have a cleaner.

I still have a life outside of all this. Your dh is doing what i do but not working. Piece of piss if you ask me!

I don't buy that your dh is that clever but I do think he's manipulative. He's not pulling his weight at all. Why do you think you need to be with someone who is such a drain? Why do you think it's ok to leave your Ds with someone who actively doesn't want to be with him? Why do you normalise what hrs saying by talking about how much you didn't like the baby stage? Don't you think that perhaps your cfs, pnd and your dh had some bearing on how you lived through that period as opposed to blaming your child for being a baby?

If I were you I would get counselling to find out why you feel you need to look after this man and to process how you felt after birth. I'd put Ds in full time nursery or get a nanny and consult a solicitor wrt Ds. I really wouldn't recommend him to your employer if you stay with him after he completes his masters because he could easily destroy your reputation at work if he proves to be unreliable and unable to take responsibility there too.

He does have to suck up parenthood and its responsibilities.

Janey68 - good points.

I think Op probably doesn't like the dynamics changing in their relationship .

Much like a controlling man who doesn't want his wife to better herself, incase she doesn't need him anymore.I agree she appears to fall into the " saviour" role. What happens when he doesn't need saving anymore ?

The dh sounds depressed , and is probably only doing what we would all do , try to tell our dp/dh /dw how we are feeling .

I am currently finishing degree and am main carer for our 2yo. It can be hard logistically etc even though my ds is also in nursery 2 days a week so I can study. But those difficulties are seperate to my emotions towards my ds.

I am beyond sad that your DH regrets your ds. :(

OK toddler care can be a chore sometimes, but to take no joy from it at all is odd. Children are like mirrors - you get out of them what you put in!

Even if his has work frustrations, to actually swear at your child and wish their existence away is

there is no way your DS won't be picking up on this, poor child deserves a parent who is glad he is alive at least! :(

But when op was depressed by staying at home she assumingly told her dh and he agreed for her to go back to work and become the sahp instead .

She agreed for him to return to studies .

So it's ok for her to voice her feelings , but not ok for her dh ?