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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

is this the behaviour of someone that likes women.

246 replies

itsodd · 05/08/2012 10:47

I posted a few days ago after discovering the man I'm seeing had only had sex 5 Times ( at the age of 28) before we met. I am very surprised by this as he seems very confident in the bedroom and we quickly progressed, within a few weeks to dressing up, bondage, anal, sex toys etc. Not to be too graphic, but just to set it all in the correct context.
Ive said to him before how the first night we had sex, he played some high risk moves, that had strong potential to backfire ie: slapping my boobs, little bit of whipping with his belt, pinning me down hard. These things are fine with me, I like them, but he Didnt know that, we hadn't discussed sex at all, so it was a strange thing for him to do.
When he confessed to the only recently having been a virgin i.told him that made what he did the first night even more crazy, in fact it makes it almost incomprehensible. He told me he had been thinking about that and what had happened was a girl at his work had come onto him strongly earlier on in the day, he was cross about her wanting casual sex from him and he took it out on me In a ' take that women kind' kind of a way.
I told him that was terrible.

It's been bugging me since, It's not the kind of thing you say, and now I know our first sex wasn't about us but about some other woman!!!

OP posts:
blueshoes · 05/08/2012 21:26

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

londonone · 05/08/2012 21:30

If a woman is unable to identify that she is with an abuser then her children are at risk. That is a fact.i. I never suggested blue that you had been in an abusive relationship

Houseofplain · 05/08/2012 21:32

I don't have personal issue at all. See I for one. Would regard sexual violence on my first encounter without consent a red flag. You wouldn't. Only if he forced her and she said no and continued.

Sometimes it wouldn't be that easy, say shock, that's what men like this would take advantage of.

This shouldn't have just put op on alert. It should have made her run there an then. Your views are dangerous. As sadly for op, she thought the same. But on several occasions "he went too far" forgetting she could "feel". :(

It's not job done, if op does not know how respectful men act. As she could wind up her again. Which is why people are challenging your frankly dangerous "advice" amd normalisation.

blueshoes · 05/08/2012 21:40

Londonone, you suggested I had low standards. In the context of this thread, it means I tolerate abusive relationship. I do not on both fronts.

Houseofplain · 05/08/2012 21:46

I agree with London.

Unconsenting sexual violence on a 1st encounter. Should do more than put someone on alert. It should make you fly, far, far away.

Which many women here are trying and hoping to god the op actually realises. If you are switched on, with a good radar, that should be an absolute deal breaker. That is not a man who cares for your welfare at all.

Unfortunately due to previous abuse, op may not and obviously hasn't realised. That's not how good men act. That's not her fault AT ALL. But people not calling it for the danger it was, are actually really endangering the op imvho.

blueshoes · 05/08/2012 21:46

The advice I am giving is the same as almost everyone on this thread. Which is that OP is doing the right thing getting out of this relationship.

So I am not normalising anything at all. My advice is hardly 'dangerous'. If we are quibbling as to what is a 'red flag' or at what point OP should have headed for the hills, well that is arguable because the OP sees the man not just in terms of the sex they have but in a different social context as well. We don't have the full information.

It is frankly off-putting to see the OP's judgment being questioned to the point of it being suggested that she is putting her children at risk. And the same message rammed down her throat (and mine now) again and again.

Houseofplain · 05/08/2012 21:50

Are you suggesting blue. It's ok to instigate sexual violence on a first encounter, without consent. Go too far several times after, as said person forgets you are real....it's ok amd normal not to call deal deal breakers. As long as in "context" they are genuinely all round super guys....as it does seem awfully like that is what you are saying Hmm so yes I'd say you opinions are dangerous.

Flimflammery · 05/08/2012 22:18

I think this man is a potential rapist, and I do not say that lightly. I'm very glad you've dumped him, OP. Please do not engage with him any more, and keep yourself safe.

blueshoes · 05/08/2012 22:23

You are all black and white, House - you know it all, of course. I simply give OP the benefit of the doubt. She got there in the end, not your way, but good enough for me.

Houseofplain · 05/08/2012 22:28

Yes it's pretty black and white. Why are you withering on about giving op the benefits of the doubt. This isn't what it's about. It's about trying really to help her see what DECENT men do. That the signs were there from the start that he was a very dangerous man so she does not get in with him, or his type again.

You are suggesting that's ok to give a guys the benefit of the doubt. If they instigate sexual violence without consent.

That those serious red flags, needn't be deal breakers of taken in "context" and they are otherwise good guys. Jesus that is what you ARE saying isn't it. Wow.

londonone · 05/08/2012 22:30

Well blue I work with the children of people who "get there in the end" and the results aren't pretty. It's not good enough to get there in the end if you have kids. Sorry. The only ok thing here is that the op finally made the right choice however the fact that she seems so unaware of the signs is concerning.

blueshoes · 05/08/2012 22:31

She got your DECENT men speech. So did I. Wow.

Leverette · 05/08/2012 22:36

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Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Houseofplain · 05/08/2012 22:36

Yes but your idea of a decent man isn't normal blue. That's why people are challenging you. A decent man wouldn't make a one off error, of instigating sexual violence on a first encounter, without consent.

To people with healthy boundaries, with experience of good men. It should do more than raise an alarm. That's why you are being so heavily challenged, rightly so.

blueshoes · 05/08/2012 22:40

Aren't we violently agreeing?

Charbon · 05/08/2012 22:58

Unfortunately I didn't see your deleted posts Blue so you might have covered this in them, but from the posts you've made tonight that have been allowed to stand, there's one where you say that in your opinion, it would have been a red flag if the OP had said 'no' and the man had continued, but that 'fortunately for him' she didn't and went on to enjoy it.

Would you apply the same standards to the act of penetration with a penis then? Because if so, that's contrary to the law on rape, where consent has to be given and the emphasis on the need to say 'no' isn't applicable; the emphasis is on active consent and the other party saying 'yes'.

Again, based on the posts I can see, there's no sense from your posts that you understand that the central issue is about consent, which is why I agree it's important to challenge your views, especially on a site which appears to pride itself on its I Believe You campaign and yet still didn't see fit to delete your 'she didn't say no' post.

Houseofplain · 05/08/2012 23:03

No blue Hmm

blueshoes · 05/08/2012 23:05

You can ask for my post to be deleted. Brilliant!

Original poster
itsodd · 05/08/2012 23:40

Very surprised to see my thread is still going.
I would like to address a few points:

My children are at no risk and I'm frankly offended at the implication that they are. I have been single for 4.5 years and have not introduced them to anyone. You also don't know what form my abusive marriage took, so, please don't make assumptions.

The first night sex was good. He did a gentle tap of a boob, I reacted favourably and it went from there, he.did ask several times if I.was ok.and if I liked it. It wasn't discussed before hand, but sometimes these things don't need to be. Had I at any point not wanted it I have no reason to doubt we would have stopped. Whatever you say, noone of you were there and don't know the dynamics of what happened.

In the time I have known this man he has been kind, lovely, supportive, funny, caring etc. Etc. No red flags there.

It was only with the new infomation, and last weekends trip to London that ive put things together, realised I don't like what it adds up to, and acted on it.

My twat radar is working,my children are not at risk and I won't be running into the arms of another abuser, thank you very much. The thing with dating is you have to get to know someone and that takes time, I found things I.didn't like and acted on them, that's a good thing.

Berating and patronising me isn't achieving anything.

OP posts:
VicarGoingForGoldInKungFu · 05/08/2012 23:47

can i just point out the more you make the OP explain/justify herself the more she is going to feel the need to explain away/ justify what happened - you do that when you feel attacked.

the op has finished this possibly dysfunctional relationship.

what exactly is the point in continuing to rake over the same old ground and make her feel rubbish?

she has done what needed to be done. clearly the twat radar is working on some level to question the treatment her new man was meting out.....

GoldenFucker · 05/08/2012 23:51

blue you are advocating that a man who employed sexual violence without consent be given the "benefit of the doubt"

go, you

no wonder your posts were deleted...they contravene the basic premise of consent

look to yourself....your "advice" is shocking and dangerous towards those who question whether they are being a "prude" or repressed to question whether being twatted about the tits to get back at womankind on a first sexual encounter is acceptable or not

FYI...it isn't

do you understand that now ?

do you, OP ?

GoldenFucker · 05/08/2012 23:53

cross posted with OP

are you still in contact with him ?

Original poster
itsodd · 05/08/2012 23:57

But vicar, because I don't instantly know everything about every new person I meet I must be rubbish and risking my childrens safety Hmm

It's just ridiclous to expect a twat radar to be 100% fool proof, it's never going to happen and women who believe this to be the case are sadly mistaken. Abusers take Many forms and rarely show their true colours from the off.

The first night sex was not a red flag at the time. It just wasn't, for reasons explained in my previous post. But with the confession, i.saw it in a different light and Didnt like it..ive taken a few days and thought it through, haveht seen him and have acted on it.

OP posts:
VicarGoingForGoldInKungFu · 06/08/2012 00:04

for what ever reason its you felt uneasy about things and finished it.

thats good and i think you made the right call regardless of exactly at what point this man made you feel uneasy the fact is he did and you acted on that.

i think thats fine.

i think you need to ensure you dont fall back into contact with him, and bear in mind the fact that you have had a near miss when you embark on another relationship.
polish the twat radar regularly and trust your instincts.

GoldenFucker · 06/08/2012 00:05

I think a bloke that slapped my tits to get back at womenkind on a first sexual encounter might make a slight ping on the radar

if it didn't OP, you got too hung up on the "omg he hasn't slept with many women" shtick and you missed the massive point right in front of your eyes

and you might want to have a think about that

despite the fact that you are pissed off that anyone might question you