MIL meltdown

[seoladair]

Please give gentle answers - I am feeling bad, and am looking for kind advice, not a debate...

Since I became pregnant, my MIL has become very controlling and intrusive. My baby is now 14 months old, and we had a bit of a meltdown when she was just 6 weeks. There were lots of issues, for instance her saying "that baby is very fat" - you should put her on a diet", when she was 6 weeks old. She also got angry because my husband and I chose a hospital near my parents instead of near my ILs.

I have struggled all year to keep everything on an even keel but we had a meltdown yesterday over a small, silly thing - she has given us endless junk for the baby. I am in favour of second-hand things, but only if they are in good condition. She knows this well, but ignores it. DH and I have managed to tactfully reject 2 second-hand car-seats in the past year, and we've explained why.

Yesterday DH (a very tactful, gentle man) said that we wouldn't need the second-hand potty and stained loo-seat cover she had acquired for our baby. She also had some toys that were filthy. One of them looked as though it had been chewed by a dog.

An explosion of Vesuvian proportions ensued.

She was hollering at me in front of my baby, who got upset. I am very concerned that this will happen in the future, and undermine my daughter's view of me.

I also suspect that it's a control issue. She said "We do things our way", to which I replied "no, DH and I are baby's parents, so we would prefer to do things our way".Although they are a wealthy family I'm not saying they should spend much on my baby- I'm just tired of the emotional blackmail that accompanies the grubby pieces of baby junk, and would rather she didn't get it for us.

She also said she was very angry that I was only staying 2 nights. I stayed with them 3 weeks ago, also for 2 nights, and MIL babysat at our place 2 weeks ago, yet she was complaining that she doesn't ever see the baby. She also complained that my parents see more of the baby (not really true - sometimes they do, other times ILs see more of her - it just depends on what DH and I are doing).

Her daughter is estranged from her - I don't want the same thing to happen. I do want my daughter to know her paternal GM, but am concerned that I will be undermined more and more as my daughter grows up.

Sorry it's long....

Well, at least he (and your MIL) will know your reasons now. If you were to divorce, he'd presumably need your permission to take her abroad, so I see no diffeerence if you are not happy to give permission this time.

Stick to your guns, she is very young to be apart from her Mum.

seoladair,

Unfortunately not much has changed has it and it won't either so long as you have any contact at all or facilitate any sort of relationship with his mother.

It would not surprise me either if you were to write that his sister is still no contact with her mother. There's good reason for that and it is time you did the same. No good at all will come from any further contact with his toxic mother as you have already all too clearly seen.

Your DH is still very much in FOG (fear, obligation, guilt) with regards to his mother isn't he?. He is as much a problem as his toxic mother and seems almost as emotionally manipulative (a skill learnt from her). He does not realise this but his own actions (inaction really) is really hurting his own family unit really badly. He has already shown that he is all too easily swayed by his mother and further exposure to his mother as well could well cause your DD an eating disorder in years to come. His mother has issues around food herself which can be all too easily transferred to your child. She's already previously worried that your baby was getting too fat.

Does baby have a passport?. Do not under any circs let him take your child to this place on his own with his toxic mother.

What was his response if any to your last comment?.

You don't trust him though do you - point out to him what happened when you left him and MIL with DD last month.

Why are you worrying about being "inflammatory?" This is your DDS safety you are talking about.

Time to release your inner lioness and protect your child.

Just keep saying no, that isn't going to happen. Repeat repeat repeat.

If DH isn't backing you then you no longer have a MIL problem you have a DH problem.

Thank you, I think she's too little.
No, she doesn't have a passport although he wouldn't kidnap her, he's too law-abiding. When he took her to his mum's for these nights last month though, it was landed on me at the last-minute, before I had a chance to rearrange my work trip.
And yes yes about the eating problems. DH had a kind of anorexia when he was 13 due to his parents fighting, separating,reuniting, splitting again etc....

"He shouted at dd and trapped her in her cot as punishment because she hadn't eaten her dinner."

Your DH frankly sounds as much a problem as his mother; he is not supporting you at all is he?. In a straight contest I think he would choose his mother over you; he would far rather upset you than she.

You need to protect your child from both these people now; both of them are doing their own bit to emotionally harm her. Your DHs recent behaviour as well re shouting at DD and trapping her in her cot because she had not eaten is particularly worrying. She is like a sponge, she is absorbing all this.

Dysfunctional toxic stuff like this can and does go down the generations. It is likely that his own mother's parents were themselves abusive towards her and she has simply transferred all that as a parent herself to her son. He went onto develop an eating disorder himself. A third generation i.e. your child could well become damaged by all this going on around her.

This situation will not change as long as you remain within it.

Your child cannot travel abroad if she does not have a passport anyway.

He shouted at your DD and trapped her in the cot? He is just as toxic and abusive as his mother.

Attila, yes DH's half-sister is still NC with MIL except when they have to cross paths at weddings and funerals. DH's half-brother is fully NC.

You asked how he responded when I said his mother had treated me badly hence my unwillingness to send DD to her for a week. He didn't have a chance to reply as I went out with DD. When I got back he was trying to be nice, putting his arm around me etc. I made it clear I was still upset (but feel like my behaviour has now been dragged down). The trouble is, if I'm sensible and mature about it, he will just sweep the issue under the carpet.

DH never holds a grudge or continues an argument. I believe it's because he is so cowed by his mother. He says he just learnt over the years to let her rages wash over him.

So his mum is abusive to him, and now he is starting on your daughter?

Well....he's normally very nice to her. When she's extremely naughty (ie on the few occasions she has bitten or scratched me) I put her in the cot to get the message across, like a naughty step. She cries and says sorry then I take her out quickly, lesson learnt.
But I feel strongly that it is wrong to apply discipline to a child when they don't want to eat. I think it's setting up problems for later on.
He is misguided on this matter rather than abusive. The key point for me is that he did this after being at his mother's, in my absence. I believe he was following his mother's lead, and looking for his mother's approval of him as a strict parent. I can't send DD off for a week of that.

Have you sat down with DH and talked about what is best for your DD? Is she clingy to you, does she need reassurance, is she used to you being her main carer - all the things that would mean going away for a week without you might be stressful for her? What would he say if you asked him what's in the best interests of DD's security and well-being (not yours, his or MILs)?

Well, in previous conversations with him where MIL is involved, logic seems to go out of the window. It's as if he has these weird automaton moments where he think "I must please Mummy" and his brain locks. Maybe that's the FOG of Fear, Obligation and Guilt.

He's also quite passive, so he will at some point drop the subject. But I feel this is so corrosive to our marriage. I have gone out this evening, as I just don't want to spend time with DH. I feel like sleeping in the spare room. But perhaps by doing that I'm allowing MIL to import her havoc into our marriage.

Also it looks like your version of being sensible and mature is that you give in to your MILs unreasonable demands so that you don't cause upset for your DH.

I think you and DH could benefit from counselling. This situation will only get worse as your DD gets older. If your DD goes on holiday now , she will be expected to go every year. And then your MIL will expect her to stay with her in the school holidays too. And you'll never get a Christmas just you 3 as a family.

You need to stop being sensible and mature. That's basically code for you will accommodate MILs wishes in order to minimise your DH getting upset (or even getting pissed off)?

Cross post. It looks like you both need to sit down and discuss this with a counsellor before your marriage is affected any further.

I had horrible IL's, with ex-MIL cutting us off with any perceived slight. She refused to see DD until DD was over a year old.

I didn't leave ex-H because of her, but she contributed to our marriage breakdown by placing pressure that we didn't need on us. Far too much of our time was spent trying to appease her. I really wish we'd been united in our approach to her.

She recently wanted to see DC but refused to come to my house (she no longer speaks to ex). I simply replied that I was sorry to hear she didn't want to come to my house, but I would leave the door open for her to visit us in the future. It felt very empowering.

I just went back and he was trying to be conciliatory. But then when I raised the issue of dd's eating he got so defensive and said "so if she behaves badly at meals am I supposed to ignore it?"
I said that he shouldn't cause an association between food and discipline.
His reply was "but that disempowers me". I lost it and stormed out saying "I don't care about your ego, I care about our daughter's well-being".
I didn't handle that well. I'm sure the Toxic Inlaws author would not have advised that.

Your wording may not have been great, but your words themselves should have made perfect sense. Your DD's wellbeing has to come first, and that means not mixing food and discipline. It's nothing to do with your H being 'disempowered' , it's about making him think seriously about his parenting strategies, doing a bit of research and coming up with something that works. Being an 'empowered' parent means doing what is best for a child and works, not about getting your own way!

Sounds like she is a very silly women because if she carries on like that you wont want to see her at all and she'll alienate herself from you. And so what if your parents see more of you and your little one? Since when has sharing grandchildren been 50:50? Surely its about distance and family relationships. Talk to your husband make sure he is behind you then go see MIL with some ground rules eg not shouting esp. in front of grandchild, maybe leave DC with your own parents, and have a full and open conversation with MIL good luck hope you can get things sorted

Thanks pointy for reassuring me. I almost feel like I did the wrong thing.
Exhausted mummy, things are better re the shouting. I started this thread 2 years ago and generally she knows not to shout at me, though she still shouts at DH.
But there are still other issues regarding control and boundaries and sometimes it all gets too much for me.
Mumsnet keeps me sane!

Seoladair ... Im going to be very blunt

You need to grow a stronger spine.

Your husband is enabling his mother and when he spends time with her, he comes back parroting her. He finds himself acting badly when he's with her. And now he's emotionally manipulating you. You're not disempowering him - he's been disempowered by her, not an issue of food or discipline and he's not making the effort to take his power and independence back.

Your daughter is not safe physically or emotionally.

No, you don't trust him, especially when he won't stand up for you and when he lets his mum mistreat you. Some things you should be angry about. It's not shameful to stand up for yourself as long as it's not at the expense of others!

Being angry and sharp? It's long overdue. Letting your daughter go?

No.

No, Im sorry, that was not fair, shoudl not have said you need to grow a spine.

But please follow your own instincts here. You're your daughter's mother, you know what's best for her.

Meerka, that's an interesting comment. Yes he is completely disempowered by his dominant mother, and you have made me realise that he is projecting it on to me.
He told me that every single time he has seen his mum recently, with or without me, she has shouted at him about something or other. We stayed there at the weekend, and he was very late coming to bed. At the time he made some excuse, but last night he admitted he was getting shouted at by her while I was upstairs getting ready for bed and waiting for him.

I think the difference between now and previously is that she used to shout in front of me. Some months ago I told her to stop shouting at him. Sadly she has carried on doing it, just when I am out of earshot.

It's like Stockholm Syndrome; he keeps going back for more. He says he has a duty to love and honour his mother. But she doesn't seem to reciprocate.

ive been feeling bad all night about being so rude, seoladair. I'm sorry. You're in an incredibly difficult position and so is your hsuband.

If it's any help, the bit in the Bible about loving and honouring your parents, well, Paul says

"honour and obey your parents. parents drive not thy children to distraction".

Meerka no worries! Thanks for all your help. Is there really a bit in the bible about parents having to be nice to children?! I'm not religious but DH and mil are so that could be helpful. Although mil is a terrible Christian. She just likes posing at church, but seems to bitch a lot about fellow church-goers, clergy,clergy's wives ad infinitum!

Yes. yes there is, i came across it one day and tracked it down, let me see if i can do it again.