MIL meltdown

[seoladair]

Please give gentle answers - I am feeling bad, and am looking for kind advice, not a debate...

Since I became pregnant, my MIL has become very controlling and intrusive. My baby is now 14 months old, and we had a bit of a meltdown when she was just 6 weeks. There were lots of issues, for instance her saying "that baby is very fat" - you should put her on a diet", when she was 6 weeks old. She also got angry because my husband and I chose a hospital near my parents instead of near my ILs.

I have struggled all year to keep everything on an even keel but we had a meltdown yesterday over a small, silly thing - she has given us endless junk for the baby. I am in favour of second-hand things, but only if they are in good condition. She knows this well, but ignores it. DH and I have managed to tactfully reject 2 second-hand car-seats in the past year, and we've explained why.

Yesterday DH (a very tactful, gentle man) said that we wouldn't need the second-hand potty and stained loo-seat cover she had acquired for our baby. She also had some toys that were filthy. One of them looked as though it had been chewed by a dog.

An explosion of Vesuvian proportions ensued.

She was hollering at me in front of my baby, who got upset. I am very concerned that this will happen in the future, and undermine my daughter's view of me.

I also suspect that it's a control issue. She said "We do things our way", to which I replied "no, DH and I are baby's parents, so we would prefer to do things our way".Although they are a wealthy family I'm not saying they should spend much on my baby- I'm just tired of the emotional blackmail that accompanies the grubby pieces of baby junk, and would rather she didn't get it for us.

She also said she was very angry that I was only staying 2 nights. I stayed with them 3 weeks ago, also for 2 nights, and MIL babysat at our place 2 weeks ago, yet she was complaining that she doesn't ever see the baby. She also complained that my parents see more of the baby (not really true - sometimes they do, other times ILs see more of her - it just depends on what DH and I are doing).

Her daughter is estranged from her - I don't want the same thing to happen. I do want my daughter to know her paternal GM, but am concerned that I will be undermined more and more as my daughter grows up.

Sorry it's long....

That's very perceptive. He does see himself as responsible for keeping everyone happy. Terrible fights raged above his head when he was a child and teenager, and he admits it has damaged him, but at the same time, he struggles to condemn his parents for that.

Apparently his mother complained to him that he always takes my side, so although I'd like him to be more supportive, at least he tries to stand up to his mum.

Seoladair You have my very great sympathy.
My MIL seemed difficult for the few years before we had children. She then became vitriolic in her criticisms of me and the children, never my DH. She was married to a lovely man but who pandered to her sense of entitlement and privilege and so enabled her toxic behaviour.She is a horrific snob.

However my FIL once, having witnessed atrocious behaviour on her part when we were staying with her, stuck up for me wholeheartedly.

Your DH sounds just like my DH. He was brought up to 'keep the peace' therefore, enabling her bad behaviour. My BIL (her daughter's husband) is estranged from her as is her own brother. She has no friends as she is simply not interested enough in other people and is too critical.

I have spent 20 years putting up with this and his half=hearted attempts to support me and the children, never enough.

5 years ago, having been widowed she needed to move nearer to both us and her other son (who is single). She had to move from north to south. Fine, I said, just not to our village where I work in a capacity which would cause conflict of interest. I said to DH, 'I cannot be her ......' Anywhere but this village. So, the 'perfect house came up in the village and, guess what...?

It is an ongoing source of contention, with DH once saying he wished she were dead.

In his defence, and this sounds like your DH, he is a LOVELY person, kind, gentle a wonderful husband and father, someone with whom I could never never have been happier.

All the coments on here are valid but sometimes it's just not as easy as that.

It needs careful negotiation, love and acceptance as well as assertiveness.

She is an old woman now, pathetic, lonely and now I'm the one 'in charge'. She has done lots of damage and my three DCs, now 15, 13 and 10 realise how it is and there is no love lost.

There is a way, it may rocky but your DH's feelings are important too.

Best of luck

The firm comment would really rile me too.

Could your parents babysit?

Seoladair, I'm really glad that things have been going well until now. Look on the bright side. You haven't seen her since July. That is quite an achievement, and it sounds like your DH has supported you in that.

Funny, I always knew when my DH was quoting what had been said to him - always so out of character. It hasn't happened for years though.

Perhaps the way to effect change is to give your MIL an incentive to behave properly. She doesn't get to babysit at any time in the near future, but if she can demonstrate that she isn't going to undermine you, or manipulate her son, then there may be a possibility of allowing more access in the future (although on an ad hoc basis, not a regular occurrence where you would be reliant on her regardless of her behaviour). Shows willing on your part, but clearly sets out that there are boundaries which she can't cross. The ball is then in her court.

Or you could have replied, 'I am also going to have to be firm with you. Not a snowball's chance in hell '.

Just. Say. No.

Babysitting, to me, means for a couple of hours one evening while you go out to the pub for a break. Not all day while you're at work - that's childcare. Either way, you're not happy about her doing it, whilst she's behaving in this way.

So, you're going to "have to be firm with him" and tell him NO WAY ON THIS EARTH!

Have you tried just saying to her on a very unemotional way that her comments are both inappropriate and rude and very hurtful. She sound like people let her behave in this way and often all it takes is for someone to stand up to an emotional bully once.
I'd take stuff with you that you want to use for your child and tell her calmly and again unemotionally why you will not use her tat and then walk away.
Bit if she freaks out pick up baby and your belongings and leave, telling hr that when she has calmed down and behave in an appropriate manner she can contact you about you visiting her again.

Really people like her get off on creating a scene and by not reacting you aren't making a drama for her to feed off of.

God, it's all so difficult. I don't think they're going to let me stop her babysitting from time to time. I guess I'll have to work on the incentive suggestion - i.e. she gets some access with possibility of more if she can behave.

The thing is, I know that things will blow up again at some point; ILs were horrible to me when the baby was 6 weeks old, and they were told by DH that they couldn't behave badly again, and it all flared up again.

When I got married, I didn't realise I was signing up for all this rubbish. I was naive, because FIL's estranged son turned down our invitation to our wedding with a letter to my mother saying
"I regret to say that we will be unable to attend because of the way I and my family were treated by Seoladair's future PILs. All I can say is I wish Seoladair the best of luck going into that family".

I guess I'll have to work on the incentive suggestion - i.e. she gets some access with possibility of more if she can behave. The thing is, I know that things will blow up again at some point;

So why do it? You know it will end badly. Why go down that route? Try a different one. i.e. no childcare or babysitting at all.

I feel sorry for you and in a different way for your DH and wouldn't give your MIL the satisfaction of seeing your marriage implode.

Whereas it would be tough on your DH if you tried to argue against the odd visit or contact, I would do my utmost to avoid regular childcare by her.

Reading what you said about that letter from your FIL's estranged son,did you tell your DH about it? You've mentioned there is more than one estranged family member. He must realise it's not just you being difficult or wayward or however MIL depicts you?

Yes, MIL's daughter (my DH's half-sister is estranged from MIL and her step-father, though she's in touch with my DH) and FIL's other son is estranged from everybody.

My DH said the other day, when we were arguing "You are going to have to accept that you have a difficult MIL" so he does know - he just wants me to be an enabler like him.

Sorry, brackets in wrong place - here goes again:

Yes, MIL's daughter (my DH's half-sister) is estranged from MIL and her step-father, though she's in touch with my DH. FIL's other son is estranged from everybody.

My DH said the other day, when we were arguing "You are going to have to accept that you have a difficult MIL" so he does know - he just wants me to be an enabler like him.

But you do accept that you have a difficult MIL. Accepting that she is what she is does not, however, equal accepting her behaviour in yours and your child's lives.

This is where you and your DH differ.

Well, his way of dealing with her is to appease her. My preferred way of dealing with her is to minimise contact. He understands that, but when he spends time with her, she works away at him and wears him down. That argument happened because he had been with her for a few days.

Just reading back, did you say your PILs live 70 miles away? How come she is offering child-care, is the idea she'd come and stay in your home?
Plus I'd forgotten they are in their mid-70s, I know plenty of healthy vigorous people of that age or so but I think that a toddler is going to be a handful.
Two genuine factors to offer your DH as a reason for preferring to make other arrangements.

Don't mix family and childcare. Really. Even with normal inlaws, it seems to be a recipe for disaster.

With a normal MIL, you say, 'Oh, that's lovely to offer, but we can't impose on you regularly. Would you mind being our backup in case the regular childcare falls through occasionally?'

With yours, you repeat as above, then make sure you and your childminder are never, ever ill.

Donkeys - no, she'd have to arrive at 9 am, having travelled for a couple of hours.
I have said to DH that she's too old for a toddler, but she is very fit and healthy (swims, plays tennis regularly etc) so he doesn't accept that as an excuse.
Lancelottie - that's very tactfully put - I will use that!

Hi seolodair, I read your thread originally. I just wanted to add my sympathy.

Dp's family are seriously dysfunctional difficult. Luckily for us dp stands up to mil but his db does what your dh does, which is acquiesce. Mil is very near to us and we see her regularly but reduce contact following any bad behaviour. Sadly, we have completely cut contact with another family member who behaved atrociously; like you I don't want my dcs affected.

I think it is grossly unfair of your dh to not stand by you both. Your mil's comments about him are her way of trying to get him on side.

Quirky, does she improve her behaviour in response to contact being reduced? Do you find that the bad behaviour goes in cycles?

Oh, yes, definitely in cycles. She is elderly (80s) but quite active. She does rely on dp for bits of help and also we have the dcs so reducing contact does result in better behaviour, for a while... but every so often she reverts to type.

Dp pays the price for standing up to bad behaviour in being "branded" the difficult/aggressive one, sadly. We have a simple policy of being nice to those who are nice to us and distancing ourselves from the tantrums. There are a lot of self-centred drama queens in dp's family and everyone else just ignores it... they are not normal.

I suppose it gets harder the older they get. I'm dreading dealing with MIL when she's in her 80s as how do you stand up to an old person who is being obnoxious, without looking callous?

how do you stand up to an old person who is being obnoxious, without looking callous?

Why worry about how it looks? It will look different to every individual. One person's callous may be another person's brave.

Stick to the first part of your question: how do you stand up to a person who is being obnoxious? (my suggestion: state boundary, repeat as often as you like, decide when to walk out if no change in behaviour). And apply that. Who cares how old she is or how it looks to others: you are always entitled to state your limits and enforce them.

Easier to say than do, mind.

Out of interest - did you read the toxic inlaws book? Did it help?

You say your DH 'sways in the wind' and is influenced by his dm after spending time with her. Perhaps when he hasn't seen her for a bit and it more clear sighted you could suggest agreeing and writing down a list of 'standards'. Ie 'no one in this family should be undermined by anyone else' and 'everyone is deserves respect' etc. You could show a third party who you both trust to agree there is nothing alarming in the list. Then when she kicks off, you can point to the list he agreed to and say by his own standards her behaviour is unacceptable. And ask why you don't deserve to be treated with respect.

Or write down a list of MILs behaviours and put it ina childCare advert and ask DH if he agrees. 'bad tempered, shouting and rude woman required to whisper secret messages in our baby's ear while we work. The successful applicant must not take any notice of our preferences and please always call the baby fat. If we mildly critise anything then you MUST fly off the handle and hurle abuse / and or cry. Please keep score with other carers and run them down all the time.
Must have own liscense and be CRB checked.

I dunno - it seems you need an objective line in the sand so he can't just say 'oh she's difficult'

Narrowboat, it's really shocking when you read it as a childcare ad. Wow.

Great idea about the list suggestion - I will do that.

I did read the book. I related to so much of it, especially the bit about engulfing inlaws. I think it helped me to understand DH's position even better, as a recurring problem in the book seems to be the idea that one partner is not doing enough to protect the other partner from an interfering parent.

Tbh seoladair mil mostly shouts at dp. We have had a few altercations but I stand up to her calmly (am raging inside) which she doesn't know how to handle, as everyone usually lets her behave badly.

On one occasion (pre dcs) we were helping her to move house and she screamed at dp for asking her where her furniture was going to go. I followed her into the next room and calmly (but invading her personal space) and repeatedly told her that we were only trying to help. Eventually she stopped shouting and realised she looked a fool as I was being calm.

More recently, she lied to me on the phone and I told her not to lie and that she should have apologised to me, then I put the phone down. She had been nice as pie to me since. It is of course much easier because dp stands up to her and she can't divide us. It does seem like dp against the rest of his family, though. They all behave badly in their own ways.

To answer, you treat an obnoxious 80yr old like a tantruming toddler. And we try to use humour and laugh about the ridiculous behaviour.