Support for those in Emotionally abusive relationships number 10

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Pulled you must be very kind to yourself and have little treats like a cup of tea with a favourite biscuit or a pedicure in the bathroom all by yourself!

There is no hurry. There is lots at stake here so don't feel you have to rush. If you are mistaken and your H is in fact a good man who has been taking you for granted and leaving you to do all the Wifework then he will have had a rude awakening and be shaping up to become the man you need.
If he is just an abusive git then that too will become clearer with time.

You won't make the wrong decision. It will all be okay if you are patient and kind to yourself and build up your strength. You will get through this!

thank u ponygirl . I think what u suggest is wise with not committing myself to anything because although I do wish we could be happy together the other part quite likes the idea of not wanting to be with him and feeling happy on my own or with new mystery man. What do u reckon to speaking to my ex? We are talkin a lot at the moment and I'm not sure if its a good idea.

Thank you lemon I think I'm just feeling like this as I'm worried I'll loose my resolve, as has happened countless time. When I sit down and take a hard look I don't want to be in this relationship, but I struggle with the unkown of being a single mum, as I've never been single. I'm going to see the counselor at uni as well, so hopefully that'll help get my head sorted! I do worry though that I'll loose my resolve, bottle out and stay unhappy, however I have taken a lot more steps this time, my head is clearer, and I have a picture of what I want for the future, I guess I'm just worried of the journey.

hello, new to the thread. Just wanted to say hi

I've just spent ages going through all the links and think I'm ready to accept my STBXH was abusive. But I'm really struggling with what this means going forwards. Some of you may have seen my threads back in feb-june. I've just had a baby, STBXH left me and DS1 for OW in Jan.

I had a really bad weekend due to his constant presence becoming overwhelming and rang WA for advice, they suggested I go to my local WA branch on Monday (or just call them) and seek legal advice about contact, plus have counselling/maybe get a family worker assigned to me.

It was primarily VA and EA from what I can work out based on the links, and his usual stance is that I am a controlling bitch who is obstructing his relationship with the kids. Also that I am responsible for his actions in leaving us, having an affair etc.

I know I need some help and support to get boundaries in place but I'm scared about the implications of involving WA and the idea of a family worker/specialist domestic abuse divorce lawyer because I know that most friends/family think he's odd but not abusive. Can anyone give me any advice or experience that might reassure me this is a sensible thing to do? Sorry if I've not given enough details. DS2 is 9 weeks and I'm feeling really tired and worn down :( TIA

also sorry for jumping in at the end of the epic thread and not referring to other people's posts - hope that doesn't seem too rude!

Hi choco I remember your threads...don't worry about not commenting on other peoples posts...i do it all the time . It's an unfortunate situation that there are so many of us in EA relationships posting here at the moment. I think we all try and dip in and out...venting when we need to...supporting when we can...

I hope you are ok? It sounds like things are escalating...have things got worse since DS2 arrived? What's been happening?

I'm afraid that I don't have much advice about WA or support workers but i do know that the police (in my area at least) were very helpful when my STBXH turned the heat up.

....and no you didn't make him do those things... He is responsible for the things that he has done. He made those choices.

It seems to be a common theme on here... these twunts rewrite history to paint themselves in a better light...to try and avoid taking responsibility for their actions.

Hi pony thanks for words of support. Good luck to you with the weekend and the being more yourself and seeing how he takes it. It's be interesting. I have done that more and more recently too. I don't know what affect it's having inside his head because he is on a different planet to me - ie he thinks things about me that are just so off the mark that he's probably decided I am mad, having an affair or evil, all because I have pulled away and of course it can't be anything he's doing, can it now! However, he is now acting as distant as I am and I don#t feel scared of him anymore at the mo anyway.

Tonight I was passing on some messages from kind family at a family get together he'd backed out of; he seemed quite touched by the pie someone had sent back for him so, encouraged, I stood there and passed on other friendly messages people had sent (obvs they don't all know truth yet). Anyway, he continued staring at telly and not looking at me as I talked and waved me disgustedly out of the way as I spoke. He has done this for years, and this time I continued to stand there saying pleasant things, almost laughing at him in my head at how rude he was being, until he said "please, it's very arrogant the way you're blocking my view"! That's not normal, is it? Even without that modern invention of the pause button, what about humans interaction, eh? My mum was just next door and must have heard. I felt a bit mortified but luckily she's in the know now. Did I say before how I'm almost glad when he pulls crap like this because it reinforces me nowadays instead of undermining me. It still doesn't feel good though, I felt really sad leaving the warmth and good will of the family do and heading home to darkness and coldness with my poor darling dcs.

Choco just wanted to send hugs. You poor babe, 9 weeks after birth and facing this. I send you support; I hope you're getting some rl support.

Hilde and everyone else, lots of warmth and good wishes over the ether to you.

Hi all

I'm back from holiday now. Did have a lovely time (despite a few wobbles) and feel empowered having had my first proper holiday with DS and without STBXH

I'm feeling a lot better too...pneumonia is now a distant memory. I've recently found out I'm anaemic, but that doesn't seem so bad in comparison (& explains the exhaustion). Back to work next week and DS starts school on Monday!

Also looks like STBXH has finally found a property to rent! Not sure when he'll be moving though...hope he will see fit to tell me the details later. He's being absolutely ridiculous about money but I'll rant about that another time...

I've got a lot of catching up to do in this thread...will try and work my way through...sorry if I haven't responded to any one.

pony how are things? Hope this weekend with your H have been ok...do you think you're making any progress?

trying what you said really reminded me of my STBXH...What you did was not arrogant. You saw the possibility of sharing something with your H and he chose to respond in a very rude manner. If his TV program was that important he could have politely asked you to tell him when it had finished...

I bet that you once called him arrogant (no doubt deservedly so) and now he's turning it back on you?

Hi chocco welcome is never really the right word but this thread is a life line. Please please get some support u need it to protect yourself and your dc's from FW. I know it is scared especially with young baby & being constantly down trodden but you will feel so much better. I am lucky I have a support worker from DASS and dv solicitor. I'm not sure what u have but please it is the right way to go. Oh & it's a common theme on this threads that FWs always blame us for their behaviour. Hugs xx

Hello Choco and welcome. This list is for jumping into. :( at your abusive ex.
Can I point you towards Lundy Bancroft's books 'Why does he do That?' and Should I Stay or Should I Go?' Vital food for wounded souls.
Please do go to WA on Monday and you must get as much legal advice as you can afford.
This is not only the right way to go, it is the only way to go.
Do not worry about being a controlling bitch. There are much worse names to come. A couple of months ago we drew up a list of them. Let me assure you that you are in good company!
Keep posting.

He has gone out for a while so I can post here without fear of discovery... (not discovery of being on MN but discovery that I am telling anyone about him - I cannot risk him discovering this namechange).

Anyway, he came back earlier than I expected on Friday. We were civil to each other. I went out with my friends yesterday as planned and had a brilliant time (and also noticed how good things are between my friend and her DH, and some of the other couples I met, and what a contrast this is.) When I got back he was sitting in his chair madly typing away on his laptop, as per usual at times like these.

He has gone out this morning leaving me a note saying what he wants to do later, some of which will clash with things the DCs are doing so he will not like that when I tell him. But I think that if I go along with it we will get over this particular obstacle and things will be calm again for a couple of weeks. And so on, and so on. Still need to decide the best way to deal with this today.

foolonthehill this thread feels safe to me, hope it will remain so.

tryingtoescape I saw a counsellor a few years ago and came up with some coping strategies; in some ways this made me stronger but I also promised myself that if things were still bad when the DCs were older I would "make or break" - we are not at that point yet but getting there. If he doesn't pull the plug first, of course, because he has said more than once "when the kids leave home I will divorce you" or "you can leave".

onesixtwo I have tried to have honest discussions with him but I get all sorts of things thrown back at me, such as I am boring, miserable (only when he makes me miserable), frumpy etc. As well as "you suggest something then", well pervy sex doesn't appeal to me so I am never likely to suggest anything he would see as an improvement. Ho Hum.

daisee that has happened to me so I sympathise.

I have read some more of these posts this morning... so many people with similar problems and worse than mine - but it's comforting (in a selfish way, sorry) to know I am not alone.

I have gained a little strength from here, thank you. Will drop back when I am free to post (ie when there is no danger of discovery).

Take care.

choco I turned up at a WA (well a similar local service which has since closed through lack of funds ) in a state because I had evidence which I thought meant Ex-but-then-under-same-roof had defrauded his M's estate (it turned out he hadn't, but at the time I knew that Ex was not the man I had thought, so had no idea if the real Ex could have done it). I had also drawn it to his attention, so if it was true, didn't know how he would react.

Also I have bi-polar, which sadly results in people not being so willing to accept what I am saying

Well, they calmed me down, took me seriously. did a risk assessment, and helped me to think clearly. (Luckily the evidence was checkable, I drove to the HQ of the savings people involved, and found my suspicions were wrong).

I have entwined two stories here, kind of, but the feeling of being taken seriously was one of the things that carried me through all the crap till Ex finally went. WA and MN are the only places where people have truly understood.

Forgot to mention they also gave me a defence alarm, and advised if things kicked off to get out of the house, not lock self in bathroom.

thank you all for the welcome and advice. I've been finding it really hard to articulate just what has made me feel so anxious and unable to draw boundaries with my ex. I read lots of the links and the hardest thing is that although I recognise his behaviour in the EA and VA descriptions I really don't see how other people are going to see it as abuse, so I'm very worried about being seen as a nasty vindictive ex spouting stories to keep him away from the kids :( my biggest dread is being taken to court and them being awarded nights away with him and OW, where I can't make sure they are supported and know they are loved.

I've tried to have normal conversations with him about contact and the divorce now we're separated, but he's simply not able to empathise with anything at all. he asks me to write down what has been said because he can't remember it, avoids or lies about things we've discussed, minimises my concerns or outright claims I'm lying or making up bizarre crap if I flag up anything that I'm worried about re the DC's. Ultimately the conversations are all on his terms (but of course he claims everything is agreed solely on mine). He cannot accept that his actions in cheating on my while pregnant broke my trust and that I'm not wrong for needing time and evidence that he is capable of putting someone elses needs before his own - I truly do not think he can. OW (now his 'committed partner') is apparently meek, quiet and submissive with him so I can quite understand why he currently adores her. He adored me too in the beginning.

He withheld all affection and intimacy when we were married, told me I was impossible to talk to, that I scared him (??) and that I wasn't normal. Since the split he's lied to family and friends saying that he was financially responsible for me (wouldn't allow me to spend anything) and that he paid off 30K debts of mine (he didn't). He couldn't bear to be near me physically when I became pregnant and made me feel repulsive, and disgusting - but it's not what he said, it's how he was, it's so hard to describe. I've always made excuses for him (odd sense of humour, he's really very smart etc) so now I don't have to I am struggling to put into words how wrong his behaviour was. I want to protect my DC's and myself from having to be around him all the time, and he's insisting on coming every weekend right now. I don't have any faith in the family court system understanding that he was abusive - they are going to see the hard done by, charming, doting father he shows everybody else, not the cold, cruel, degrading man I know him to be.

I'm also scared that if I get a DV/DA solicitor and I can't prove I need one, that it will all backfire on me and I'll get called a malicious liar (he has said that his lawyer says the only reason I would name the OW in an adultery divorce is because I'm a malicious/vindictive person - I have no idea what he's made me out to be like) and things will go in his favour because the children are too young to know any different or say anything at all. I feel pretty lost and anxious and can't sleep, I keep dreaming about what might go wrong and dreading seeing him at the weekend. Sorry that was all really long and rambly. Thanks for reading

oh wow chocco , I really really feel for u. What an absolute nightmare of a situation to be in. I can't imagine how hard it must be looking after a newborn and aother child on your own whilst your not so darling prick of a husband Fucks off with another woman. U r incredibly strong and an amazing mother! I don't know u but I admire u. I am also worrying about court in a similar way to u, there is no way I would let my ex have dd overnight or even on his own at the moment. He sis so unstable and I'm scared because he is also a charming man. He is 'intelligent' and can speak so well that I worry he'll win the court over.as posted on this thread he is also making steps to change which they could respect him for. But what so many people have told me is that the courts have seen it all before and r used to these types of men. I would b so shocked if the court didn't sympathise with u, you' ex looks like a wanker to anyone! Have u kept a record of incidents or examples of abuse withdrewdates on? I've heard that can b useful. X

also. Do u have any rl support?

no I haven't kept a record of the things because it's only just recently I've stopped minimising it and telling myself it's normal :( but I will start. My parents are amazing and support me but I don't have many RL people I can talk to. Thanks for your kind words sunrise x

Yes choco try and keep a record of everything.

I know it's really hard (I struggle with it myself) but try not to believe any threats about custody or access, or worry about what he's telling other people. He will probably say a lot of things that are untrue...he may well rewrite history. Its what they do...

He can't lie about leaving you to go and live with OW though can he?

no, but I worry that affairs happens to a lot of people, and I go around in circles wondering if the verbal stuff is important enough to confront or not. I think it must be because it makes me feel so crap, and I have a deep unease about his role in our children's lives, which goes far beyond just feeling upset that our marriage is over (which tbh I'm not really upset about, I'm only upset because I am worried about the kids being alone with him - which says a lot).

Also when I see his dad (xFIL), and how scary and vile he can be - the man is pure poison when he lets his 'front' down - I know that xh has every chance of behaving just as appallingly in front of our DC. I know that the decisions I make now about our DC and contact will affect their emotional development profoundly and I hate that I feel completely impotent, I don't ever say 'no' because I'm scared of fighting him and losing. It doesn't really seem possible to fight and win right now. I hope the WA people can advise me on contact and also just how I can help my DC grow up with a balanced view of relationships and of him - because I don't want to stop them seeing him I just want to know how to keep them safe when they do. Right now, I have no idea.

its good that you have your parents but do reach out and use all the services like women's aid and your local domestic violence service. Did u say if you've spoken to a solicitor yet? They might be able to reassure you a bit because right now while you must still be recovering from having your lo you don't want to be sending yourself crazy with worries. The first appointment with solicitor is usually free so is definitely worth chatting to them to just get some answers to all your questions. I can totally understand where u r coming from with wanting to do the right thing for your kids with contact with their dad but it is up to him to come to you to sort it.he if you don't feel happy about him seeing them on his own then supervised contact could be arranged. This is what my ex has until we go to court and then let them decide. X

sunrise that's really good advice

choco sending strength your way...

I know exactly what you mean. I'm quite concerned at the way my STBXH is in front of our DS. DS is learning to act in a way that i really don't like (shouting, too rough, stuff like that). However, realistically I don't think it's serious enough to the powers that be to justify supervised contact. And I know the courts always prioritise the child's right to have contact with their non resident parent.

Even if there's been EA or VA to the other parent I don't think they take that into account if access issues go to court...I think they're only concerned if there has been abuse directed at the child (although please somebody prove me wrong)...

Do you think he is serious about regular contact or is he just trying to prove to the world that he's a good guy? Do you think he might lose interest after a while? My DM is convinced that my H (currently being Superdad and asking for 50/50 access) will gradually do less and less once he realises that he has to do all the crappy bits of raising a child as well as the fun bits

I have a solicitor but I pay for her right now and she's not very helpful. The WA helpline woman said that my local group should help me find a DV specialist solicitor on legal aid to swap to, although I don't know if EA or VA counts as DV? I don't think it can be taken into account with court decided access orders :( I need someone who understands though to help me put boundaries in place. I need to find a balance between him spending meaningful time with them and me feeling like a doormat. He is using the divorce as a way to belittle and hurt me too, bringing it up all the time even though I've just had our baby and asked him repeatedly not to.

Right now he comes into my home every week for contact cos I won't let him take the baby without me, but he is so entitled it's water of a ducks back to him - you would think I'm the one who lied and cheated and left the way he has me running around making him tea...it's embarrassing. I have no sense of personal space, plus he expects me to be available to him 52 weeks a year for him to come here but he can cancel or change the days to suit himself - if I try to I'm attacked as a bad mother. I go to bed at night wishing for it to be over and for him to just disappear. I wish he would just do less but right now he's on a mission to play the wounded party and prove what a wonderful father he is to his new partner and family. The nastiness is only to me in private. My family see right through him but they're hardly unbiased are they?

Hi all, Choco that all sounds so awful for you, you poor love. You sound so very balanced and intelligent in all your descriptions on here of the VA etc, don't doubt yourself and also don't forget this thread is a dated record as well as a support life line. Try starting a private blog- ie only u can read- to record your thoughts - even if you think you're making no sense, you will find on reading back later that you really are getting your point across and that'll relieve your feelings in short term and provide a dated record long term. You have been through abandonment and childbirth and now single motherhood and all the new born stuff and yet you sound lucid and VERY reasonable. I'm in awe. Don't doubt yourself give yourself a big pat on the back- flowers- cant do on my phone but you know what I mean

Parapet hi and welcome back, hope you're ok-ish. Those things your oh said about 'you leave then' and 'I will divorce you when kids are older' etc- Blimey, are we married to the same bloke?!! My resident FW has said the exact same things. Do these blokes realise they're just one of a type I wonder- no of course not, they're fascinatingly original and of course always right, eh