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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Support for those in Emotionally abusive relationships number 10

999 replies

foolonthehill · 09/07/2012 20:53

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

OP posts:
bb99 · 07/09/2012 14:42

Hey pony hope you have a good w-end. Detach, detach, detach, a good mantra. Yes the emotional thing is interesting - all the wind ups and quips, then the, you're losing it blah blah blah.

Working from home and raising a baby - respect to you! Teaching's a no-brainer by comparison. Busy with pressure, but you do get lunch Wink

It has really made me look at things again and it's not a very comfortable place ATM. I am as far along as having solicitor phone numbers and generally not getting too sucked into H's randomness but he has really started banging the 'things are sort of ok atm with our great relationship Hmm and I(H) am soo much better at being a husband/father than this bloke, or this bloke or this bloke. I (H) am amazing...

He keeps nice txting me too and is trying to be quite physically affectionate. It's quite unsettling and I'm wondering what he's upto. Nothing in my best interests I'm sure.

Oh and I am job hunting as I know money is power in our family...and a job and independant finance would put me in a position where I would have more choices.

PulledInTwo · 07/09/2012 14:54

Hi all, me again!

You're all doing so well, so pleased you've spoken to someone Helde. It's so hard to stay strong, I can picture where I want to be, but can't picture myself actually ending it with nsdh. I have taken a small baby step though. I have e-mailed my local CAB office, as they offer e-mail advice. So hopefully I'll get an answer of where I stand with regards to finances, being a full time student. Seeing the in-laws this weekend, which means I have to dig out my rings and put them on, anyone else hate the feeling of their rings on their hand?

Today I'm feeling very selfish though, with my resolve wavering. Keep thinking, is this for the best? What if it's just my mental health problems, we have so much history, he says he loves me, etc etc... It doesn't help that as I am detaching myself, the more lovely and 'thoughtful' nsdh is becoming, trying to reel me back in. it puts my head in such a messed up state, is he really abusive? am I over sensitive? Am I creating a mountain out of a molehill? Could I really go threw this? How can I do this to him, it'll destroy him? I really wish he'd cheat on me or something so I can actually say 'there, that's unacceptable, I can leave this relationship now', instead of always being confused as to what to do.

NiniLegsInTheAir · 07/09/2012 19:28

Glad you've found a sympathetic ear, Hilde, you've made such massive steps the last few days. Smile

This is me signing off. Will try and get online during hols if I can. Really hoping we have a good time away, NSDH is already getting stressed. Big hugs to all.

TheSilverPussycat · 07/09/2012 19:42

Good luck, nini. the thoughts of Mn are with you.

lostmywellies · 07/09/2012 20:17

Hope you have a good time, too, Nini. Hols with my H are/were usually stressful for the first 3 days, then good after that. But then he loves holidays, so that's him at his best. Me, I just cultivated low expectations of getting any sort of rest...

sunrise65 · 07/09/2012 20:39

pulledintwo all the questioning of yourself and minimizing your partners behviour is all part of the abuse. It is so classic and also the fact that he is being mr nice at the moment will be confusing u even more. But again, its all part of the abusive cycle. i've not been on mumsnet properly for a while so dont know your story. What r your plans with your partner? Is there anyway you could have some time apart so you can gather your own thoughts without his influence?

I've come back on here to ask your opinions as ever. Please be honest if u have time to answer...
So my abusive ex has done something i never thought he would..he has admitted to the abuse and has put himself on an abuser program. He has also told me how he lied to me about drink and drugs, sexual abuse of 2 other ppl and how he generally was dishonest within the relationship and since we have broken up. I've been really angry and disgusted by it all but weirdly we have been talking loads since his revelations and have been getting on so well. Its sort of like the nice side of him is back but not in the cycle of abuse way because he now admits it all, he has let me tell him exactly what i think, what he has put me and dd thru and he hasnt answered back once. He does seem properly remorsful and is taking steps to sort himself out i.e. Abuser program, addiction counselling.
what im wanting to know is, once he has completed his courses and if he changes is there ever hope we can b a family again? I want our family back so much. My friends say oh u can have that with a new man buy i want him. Im so confused.

TheSilverPussycat · 07/09/2012 20:43

Tbh I would be wary, sunrise. How long since you split? I do believe people can change, but if you did get back together you will need to maintain your independence and be ready to split again if necessary.

sunrise65 · 07/09/2012 21:01

hi silverpussycat, hope u r well. We split 8 months ago now! Thats why i am seriously considering things. Ive gone through all the emotions. I've missed him, hated him , up and down up and down.. And now after all this i still have such strong feelings for him. We have both said that we miss each other and we dont want other families we want our family. My dd adores her dad and it breaks my heart that we cant be together.
I think if we did get back together it would have to be totally different. I would not consider living together or anything until a very long time and would hope that the trust could be built up again. Is this really wishful thinking tho? (I'm writing this sat in refuge..doh)

sunrise65 · 07/09/2012 21:04

p.s. another way that he seems serious about changing is that he's moving across the country down to where we live so he can be closer to our dd. That means leaving all his mates and family. X

unhappyhildebrand · 07/09/2012 21:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

tryingtoescape · 07/09/2012 21:38

Hi all.

nini I hope you have a reasonable holiday, good luck with it all, it's a pressure cooker, isn't it, being on holiday with EA OHs. I find I can't realistically leave FWH with kids for too long because it all blows up and I come back from shopping or whatever to find DCs in disgrace, sitting in corners, toys taken away, because FW can't predict and work around children being children; any slightest arguing he takes as massive bad behaviour which makes them "deserve" punishment or not "deserve" whatever plans we had for the day. The more distance I get, the more I see that although he is of value as a dad because kids need a dad and he isn't actually beating them, he is really not that good a dad despite his constant "adoration" (in other words strict control) of them, because he demeans, punishes and shouts at them SO bloody much. Anyway, sorry, didn't mean to go on about me, I meant to wish you luck! Hugs and strength to you.

Ponygirl thank you, yes Sep is my new beginning. My job starts shortly and I already feel like new person because of that, even though I am feeling nervous and the job isn't all I want but it's a start. I am looking at properties to escape to with kids, although I'd prefer to remain at home and get him out, because as someone upthread said, it's impossible to have THE conversation when it's with an abuser, nothing comes of it but spag head, more abuse or whatever. I need to leave because I know I'm not tough enough to get him out and talking has got me exactly nowhere in the past. He's far too manipulative and bullying to have any reasonable agreement with - otherwise I wouldn't be at this stage I guess.

Hilde I am in awe of how brilliant and strong you have been. Stick to your guns, you are doing the right thing, you are right in your instincts and you are not to blame for any of this; he is.

Pulled and everyone else who's been posting, hugs and support, I think you're all amazing.

tryingtoescape · 07/09/2012 21:43

Hilde - not allowed on mn eh Sad - bloody hell - it's like me, I am sitting here with nice Wine and FW keeps walking past and staring very hard at it Confused What bloody right do they have to dictate what we do, eh? MN is such a strength and eye opener, no wonder they feel threatened by it, eh. Keep strong and protect yourself. Get over the weekend as stably as possible and then continue your strength building next week. I hope you're safe. Hugs.

ontheparapet · 07/09/2012 22:05

Name changed for this - and this is the first time I have posted on this thread.
I am posting here because you all seem to treat each other gently and kindly. I have posted about some of my history elsewhere on MN but had some unhelpful responses.

Some years ago h suggested we try some "adult fun". I went along with it, very reluctantly, as I thought it was only fair to try it before saying it was not for me. Unsurprisingly (I now realise) I didn't like it and he did. I have tried several times to stop it and we have had breaks from time to time, but h always brings it up again, until I try to put the brakes on again and we row.

Today he suggested we do something, I basically said he has too many things of this nature planned at present, we had words and he has now gone ahead with his plans, saying I could join him or not. I am going out with friends tomorrow eve and he has said he might do something then when I am out. I have to say that right now I feel some relief as the house is calm, but at some point this weekend we will have to be together in the same house again and I am not sure how it will be and how I will handle it.

I have considered giving him an ultimatum - this activity or me - but am afraid he will not choose me, and I am not ready to split my family up. I work part time and could not afford my own place for me and our teenagers.

In some ways we have a good relationship and we are good partners as parents - but this aspect of my life is not good right now.

foolonthehill · 07/09/2012 22:25

otp no partner should respect their loved one so little that their sexual peccadilloes and predilections rank higher than their relationship. Your h is showing you exactly where you rank in his view of the world. I think you are brave and right to lay down your boundaries but you don' t have to decide what to do in a flash. take your time, look at the links/books up above and post when it helps. It's your life too and you get to call the shots as and when you want to.

PS you are being very brave to keep posting if you have had "robust" replies elsewhere.

OP posts:
tryingtoescape · 07/09/2012 22:37

Hi parapet. Welcome and sorry you have to be here. I don't know details of what you say and I am no expert - the other ladies on here who I'm in awe of, always have very sound advice which will hopefully follow.

My tuppence worth is this; from my own experience, don't know if it's helpful. My EA OH, many years ago, when I wasn't ready for kids because he wasn't working, but he wanted kids... well anyway he said either I had to try for kids (ie no contraception) or do some other stuff, that he wanted but was way not what I wanted. Being brainwashed and deep in years of EA, I did it, though it brought me pain and mental anguish and I sobbed all the way through.

It only happened a couple of times but I brought it up in some counselling years later. The lead counsellor told my counsellor that this was rape, which info she then passed on to me. It was a bit blunt and I was horrified as it was very shocking to hear that word and to think of it like that.

Equally I was shocked and felt very muddied in my thoughts when first posting on this thread and getting all the confirmation about EA. Now I have gone beyond the shock and feel healthy outrage and disgust and I can't tell you how much better I feel, despite being mired deeply in crap and problems still. I'm still in the same house as EA OH, but my own commitment to the relationship has completely finished after years and years of having the ritual EA game played on me.

Seeing it for what it is, once I was ready, has made me a stronger version of the good person I already was and able to tackle all these realisations and decide to end it (though haven't actually escaped yet!)

God, sorry to ramble on. I guess what I want to say, without being too brutal, is that your story rings bells with me, and to repeat the words a relationship professional said to me. Strength and best wishes to you.

ontheparapet · 07/09/2012 23:17

Thanks for replies. Sorry, had to go suddenly. Will post more when I can, won't be tonight.

tryingtoescape · 07/09/2012 23:19

Good luck, take care.

onesixonetwo · 08/09/2012 03:04

Hi all, there's been so much written since I was last on but hilde I'm glad you've reported him and the police were helpful.
nini I hope your holiday goes well.
parapet again, no-one should do anything sexually they don't feel comfortable with. Can you have an honest discussion with him about it and what you don't like?
pulled I don't think it's 'just' your mental health problems. In fact, i don't think it's your mental health problem at all. It's him.

DH didn't go to AA tonight, he got drunk but wasn't nasty. Sober he's been lovely this week, which is fairly normal.
He hasn't had a drink all week until tonight. The weeekends are the worst and the worry is that when he's been drinking at the weekends he will be EA.
it is tiresome all this isn't it?

ponygirlcurtis · 08/09/2012 10:53

Hi ontheparapet. Another one saying that you shouldn't have to do things you don't want to, and if your relationship isn't one where you can express that and be listened too, then yes, there are problems. As fool said, take your time with it, don't rush, read some of the links and take it all in.

tryingtoescape - so sorry you've been through that too. It's amazing isn't it, we put up with so much from our FWs, such horrible treatment, yet we stay for so long. We advise others to get out but we can't do it for ourselves. So glad you've got a plan and are starting to feel more like yourself with your new job starting soon.

Pulled - something you said in your post, that it would destroy him if you left. I think we're all decent people, and that's why we all think that at some point, we're worried about hurting or upsetting the FWs. But really, he's already on his way to destroying you, and he hasn't given you a second thought. You said you felt selfish - good!!!!! Grin It's time to be a bit selfish - I know it's really hard to do, I'm only just coming to grips with putting my own needs first (even with an abusive FW NSDH). Your life, you're allowed to be a bit selfish sometimes. Not all the time, obviously - you're not your abusive FW NSDH, after all! But you need to think of yourself first and what your needs are. And you need to be treated better. If FW can't do that, then it's ok to say he can't be in your life any more.

Sunrise - I feel your confusion in your post. You seem pulled in several directions. It's so hard when you still have feelings for him. I think you're doing the right thing though - if he sorts himself out properly, then maybe there's a future there. But while he's doing it, and while he's proving he can do it, you retain a certain distance. My concern is that it will take a long time for him to get there, if he gets there - if he's been routinely lying and there's sexual abuse involved, then it's going to take time to unknot all that and rebuild his approach and beliefs about how to behave. I'd say don't commit to any path with him, he needs to sort it out regardless of you, maybe take a 'wait and see' tack. And remember that you can change your mind at any time and decide that even though he's changing, all the things he did before are too much for you to get over. It's up to you.

I'm offline for the weekend now (off to our house to spend weekend with NSDH). I am determined to be more myself, because I need to know if he can deal with me being me (and not prefer me to be all Stepford and not saying anything that might cause upset/contention). I'll be thinking of you all, especially onesix and hilde - stay safe ladies, I hope your weekend is calm, although I know it sounds doubtful in both cases. Don't hesitate to call the police if it gets in any way scary - remember that assault is just the act of putting someone in fear of being harmed, they don't actually have to lay a finger on you to assault you, if you're scared they're going to do something then that's already assault. They can be charged with threatening behaviour.

unhappyhildebrand · 08/09/2012 11:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

foolonthehill · 08/09/2012 17:07

Hilde and everyone else, the difference is that a relationship is between 2 equal people (in theory anyway) and this thread is supposed to be for You, you, you...in any proportion that is helpful. There is no need to "earn the right to post" or give as much as you gain......

^It's his way of making himself feel better That's all. Because if he knows it upsets me how can he be making me feel better?^ Quite and he is allowed to do it because you are not a separate individual with different needs/want but a possession to be used only in relation to him.

^Wanker^....this would be the better option.

OP posts:
onesixonetwo · 08/09/2012 17:10

Thanks ponygirl
It's not looking good though. DH wants to go out for a drink this evening, he says he will drive which means he will only have one while we are out but it does mean it's a drinking evening and he will get drunk.
I can either go with him in which case I will know how much he's had to drink, try to keep him in a good mood and know what time he will be home and in what condition.
Or I can stay which does mean I am not endorsing a trip to the pub but also probably means he will walk and get more drink which could be serious trouble when he get's home.
Damn, damn, damn.

daiseehope · 08/09/2012 17:32

onesixonetwo, nightmare. my NSDP is at the final match of the season. That is a definite omen of doom. He is not violent, but nasty to the nth especially when drunk. And he likes a drink. I could say it's wrong that we're both sat at home worrying but it's inevitable.

hildebrand - thanks for being so open. I feel very uncomfortable having sex with my NSDP, but often suffer bad moods if I don't spread 'em. Thanks for pointing out it's wrong. I have a very topsy turvy view of such things.

daiseehope · 08/09/2012 17:42

Sorry I didn't mean to be course, but that's how it feels. I have consented. But it's just a mechanical act and frankly I feel a bit disgusted.

PulledInTwo · 08/09/2012 18:21

Well I hope everyone is doing ok. I'm so tiered after today. We had the in-laws over, and they picked up something was wrong...literally we spent all afternoon with me crying, nsdh saying he wants this to work, and my in-laws (who are lovely) trying to help us both. It's made me feel rotten, I don't want to do this to them, I really do love them, and it's just messed my head up again as to wether I am doing the right thing. Should we really be making it work, for DD, for our families and for us? After all, at the beginning we were best friends, we 'got' each other, loved spending time together, and were great. No we are bitter, resentful, hurtful and clash terribly... I just want my own space, my own freedom, but what if I leave and realise I wanted him.... arg I hate this... Why is it so hard and confusing.

Thank you to everyone here though, I'm so sad you are all going threw similar, or worse, but to have you guys here, your support, it helps so much