Support for those in Emotionally abusive relationships number 10

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

oh Lordy I took my eye off the thread for a moment...and look what happened!!

welcome one and all

I'm just off to catch up with the end of the last thread

Hi to thread 10! I was just responding to nini when I realised the old thread had filled up. I was just saying (c&p) ...Hi all, Hi nini I know what you mean about the counsellor being a bit like WW, keeping us on track, ha ha. I went to relate by myself for a number of sessions to get myself on track. It didn't work as quickly as I'd expected but it's all part of the process. I've moved on so much mentally in the last nine months or so. Re The Conversation - well I had it a few times but I didn't follow through and NSDH quickly reverted to acting as though I'd never spoken. I am sorry, no great advice but I will listen very eagerly to what wiser people will tell you about this and borrow it for myself! Good luck. xx

Thanks trying :) I'm still plucking up the courage to bring the topic up tonight. He is being Mr Reasonable tonight which doesn't help. I'm upstairs sorting out my new big storage boxes (Matalan baby ) while he is watching TV downstairs. Worried my resolve will fail me tonight.

Big wave and hugs to all.

Gosh that last thread just ran away with us!!

Hi Big House it's the Little House here disguised as a cake

I'm so glad it's working out for you and the Nice Boy is still making you happy. I am amazed how similar our stories are. My FWH has only paid two staff and hasn't moved in the new GF and her DC yet but I have been written out completely. He holds dinner parties for "Intellectuals" and invites my friends along to show them what I am missing with his marvellous cooking and stimulating conversation.
Meanwhile I help my Very Nice Man clear his parents old bungalow of clutter and giggle a lot and go to McDs for a McFlurry as a treat. We hold hands a lot too.

FWH said way back that I wasn't sophisticated enough for him and how right he was!!

How are your DC coping?

Thanks lemon :)

The children are ok, I think. It is so hard to tell though! The youngest was always 'high needs' and has a counsellor through school, although still only 6 (!). She has always been like it. She did regress at the beginning of the separation but has now really got better. They both enjoy the flat I live in - the block is full of friendly people with kids - largely non-English - and the flat is full of children all the time. It's lovely for them and makes me feel less bad about DH having 'grounds' with 'garden parties' and climbing frames etc.

My DH always seemed to HATE socialising with my friends so why he is now inviting them over is just baffling to me.

Nice Boy feels bad, I know, that he doesn't have money and a house, but I say that we win, anyway, because we are happy, and giggly, and RELAXED. He is so soothing all the time and strokes me all the time and makes me fall asleep in cafes and on buses, or sprawled across him, all night, like a shipwreck survivor.

I realised today that just after a few months with Nice Boy we have more photographs of us together than after nearly 20 years with XH. And we are smiling, and happy happy happy in all of them.

I do think of you a lot - leaving all the STUFF, including the art, and the furniture, and the things lovingly chosen. But as you've said in the past, the children can enjoy them at least, and we know we can make ourselves a lovely home anywhere, even if it is small, and pretty. :)

The conversation...it isn't one, it is a line in the sand, if you converse then it is give and take...here you are setting out the bottom line for your relationship:

Only have it when he is being Mr Reasonable or you will be caught up in emotion and will feel you present poorly/he will dismiss it as an overemotional rant best ignored.

Make sure you know exactly what you are asking for, how he can achieve it and how long you are prepared to wait for it to happen

Have clear and well defined consequences for failing to comply...and follow through.

Do not concentrate on the little things...you will never move on. Start with big things: control, respect, boundaries etc.

No accusations (you never, I always etc.) but direct statements of fact (when you....it means that I can't....) (when you do/say this I feel that)

Give him space to answer but do not make it into a conversation. Finish what you have to say, listen to what he has to say (don't interrupt him...don't contradict him...gird your loins or you will be sucked in)when he is finished then carry on with what you planned to say whilst acknowledging that he may differ in his opinion.

When he tries to turn it round onto you calmly but firmly say, "I am happy to talk about that at another time but at the moment I want to concentrate on this" or if it is the get out of my life conversation then "there has been plenty of time for you to say all this to me, I am not listening to it tonight/today" or in my case "I know that is what you think but it does not change what I am doing or what I am saying"

when you have finished hand him something in writing to summarise what you said (just salient points) and what you have asked for. This way when he says "you never said, or I didn't think you meant" you cannot be gaslighted or confused about what you actually said, your intended words will be in black and white. He may burn it, he may throw it away but if you keep copies he will never be able to tell you that you were unclear/are moving the goalposts/he didn't think you were serious.

Don't have this conversation until you are sure about what you want (be precise) and can be clear about the consequences (be exact0 and will follow through...or it will be just another stick to beat you with.

Here endeth the lesson.....

waving at big house and smiling.........there is a good life out there all those of you fighting the fight.

Way to go bighouse :)
If I may make so bold, 7 months is not long at all, and FWs are FWs are FWs.
Of course, he can still get to you. You are a normal good person with normal good feelings.
FWs, on the other hand will still play stupid FW games because that is just what they do.
My FWX decided to arrange to pick up DD1 from the station after her holiday without even telling me - let alone consulting me.
When I said, yet again, that arrangements about the DDs need to be made between ourselves, FW said that DD1 should have told me, and that, anyway, he was doing me a favour

Hi Fool gosh you really are a woman with her finger on the button! Thanks and again,

I have something to add to 'the conversation'
'Don't Bother' Ever.
I have tried the writing down. FW loses the paper and only ever answers points that were never there in the first place.

(more luck than judgement this time....just popped in to catch up with thread 9 and we had got to 1000....)

bought myself a RL bunch of Sweet peas today ...they will look pretty with the virtual posy thanks fingers

god thanks fool for that. i tried to draw a line in the sand earlier on this evening. you are so right, he tried to turn it round onto me. 'i'll change if you change'

got to go think he's coming through

But mostly the conversation is for our sake fingers it allows us to say ...and to feel that we have done EVERYTHING we could to make things work. And to allow them the space to change

At the worst we have made it as clear and at best it might work (hollow laugh)

baskingseals (nice name...appropriate for where I am in RL). Yup every time....so you really have to be firm about exactly what you want and how he can get there. A decent man(or woman) will give it a go and at least engage with the process...an abuser will not, he will deflect, turn the conversation, deny and probably walk out.......then alter it in his mind. This is why it is not worth having unless you know exactly what you want and how far you are prepared to go if you don't get it.

Couldn't agree more Fool. You are right - again.
I have kept the one letter I wrote just to make sure that I did actually say what I said.
Not one single point on the letter did FW acknowledge - let alone address.
Can I change your last sentence, though
At BEST we have made it clear and at WORST it might work if by working we mean insincere attempts at pretending they care what we are talking about (is not your FW going to counselling) Mine has made a similar statement this week. I even think he might - as he said he thought counselling would make him feel better.
As I have said before: FWs, you could not make them up
How are you feeling Fool?

My FW has so far done individual counselling, anger management, stress management (well he clearly has time on his hands) today he apparently was to start an abusers programme (40 weeks.....!!!!!).

BUT he is engaging to get back here, not to actually change himself. NOTHING has changed, not his conversation with the DCs on Skype, not the manipulation, not the entitled expectations of "his house" his life etc.

the proof of the pudding is not in the courses attended but what is done in the life lived...null, nothing, niet and i am not expecting anything.

I am mostly Ok thanks, DCs are doing well, I am keeping the boat afloat financially. Could do with some time and space for me....this will come one day I guess.

Thank heaven for MN...where else would i get to process the last 14 years of my life???????Better than a counsellor?? well i wouldn't know...but you are all in my living room with me and money could not buy that sort of help!

for living room

fool

I know what you mean

This saves HOURS of therapy

My XH also did all the anger management courses/therapy etc.

Still an entitled FUCKWIT. Didn't have a course for that.

bighouse

I'm sorry to see you here Basking :( Hugs to you

I was just getting to a better place with everything that my ex has done and low and behold an ex from years ago has popped back up. He is acting rather stalkerish and it is scaring m a bit :(
I know how I want to deal with it but I feel unsafe and am just ignoring it. He says he is depressed but it just seems like tactics. Generally if people ignore phone calls, text messages and fb messages, the other person gets the hint yes? They don't normally send a message saying they can tell when you read there message and then continue with a stream of further messages.
Why can't these people leave me alone?! I was feeling safe and happy here and now i'm scared again.

One particular thing that is annoying me is that XH has employed one of my best friends as his gardener - and I haven't heard from her since. It feels like his message is: "Look what I can do to your best friends: have them in the dirt on their hands and knees" which I KNOW is paranoid of me, but I can't help it. They had never spoken to each other before we split up! * knows how he got in touch with her in the first place. Makes me so annoyed though.

Still new to this took me a while to realise there was a new thread. This is sooo much better then counselling cos we all not what we are going through. And basking I get that all the time "will only change if I do/ will change if I make a bit more effort/ he behaves the way he is because I'm shutting him out etc etc blooming exhausting everyday. I think the fact that we separated now he's back after some tokenistic counselling has made me realise he is not going to change at all :( x