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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Support for those in Emotionally abusive relationships number 10

999 replies

foolonthehill · 09/07/2012 20:53

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

OP posts:
LemonDrizzled · 13/07/2012 10:04

fool I read it that wellies thinks her H might be a narc.

If that is right wellies you don't "need" to do anything! The knowledge which may or may not be accurate will simply help you understand his behaviour. You will have lower expectations of him and be less surprised when he treats you without kindness or empathy because he has none!

But these diagnoses can only really be made by a mental health professional. The rest of us just apply our intimate knowledge of our family to the clinical description and go "Eureka!" All of us will have traits of various conditions, I know I am a bit OCD when stressed and a bit paranoid when I have PMT.

If you genuinely believe your H is a narcissist there is no point whatever in suggesting it to him. He will mock you, use the information against you but never actually take it on board and express any regret or remorse. That isn't what they do!

Just keep reading and observing and if you like run examples past us. We will be objective and tell you whether you are exaggerating or not!

lostmywellies · 13/07/2012 10:24

Hmm... ok. I guess you're right. I feel that he has a mental block that when he looks at me he doesn't really SEE me. He has no understanding of who I am. The other day we were talking about a name he'd wanted to use for a child and I vetoed it. I said, "But you know that name has uncomfortable memories for me." He replied vaguely, "Does it? I don't know anyone with that name. Oh, except for..." and then he was off. Own little world. Every conversation is a conversation about HIM.

BUT appearances being everything to him, he is desperate to be seen as a GOOD man. I think this occasionally motivates him to spend time with the dcs (really don't think he does it for his own enjoyment), because he wants me to believe he's good. Maybe I could use that to persuade him to get some help of some sort?

LemonDrizzled · 13/07/2012 10:36

What would you hope that "getting help" could achieve? Remember if you are right he is WITHOUT empathy and incapable of feeling. So you can't get a transplant that turns him into a kind loving person. Going for joint counselling will just give him a stick to beat you with.

Sorry wellies if you are right all you can do is limit the damage this man can do to you and your children by getting away from him and detaching so you don't expect anything from him except more unkindness and self serving behaviour.

If you are wrong there may be room for improvement. I think if you up the stakes and he is threatened with losing you and the children he will show his true colours. A decent man will be devastated and will try everything to persuade you of his genuine feelings. While a narcissist will become enraged at you challenging his version of reality and be very nasty.
Watch and learn!

LemonDrizzled · 13/07/2012 10:50

By the way wellies I recognised my FWH had narc tendencies too. In his case he grew up in a very abusive family and was the "very good" one. He really wanted to try everything to save our marriage. Genuinely.

When he went for counselling it was hugely informative but he just couldn't cope with looking into the void within himself as it was too painful. He had to blame me for what went wrong because he couldn't live with being a failure. I on the other hand have learned to take all the blame for everything cheerily Smile

It must be so hard to need to be perfect all the time. I feel sorry for my FWH now. He is still desperately trying to impress everybody. Luckily this takes the form of "doing the best divorce ever" and "being generous to my ex-wife so everybody sees she has made a terrible mistake".

It is a genuine shame that I simply can't live with him any more. The DC don't understand. He doesn't understand. But I know that if I lived with him he would crush me again with his lack of consideration and selfishness.
And he gives me the creeps too... never a good thing!

tryingtoescape · 13/07/2012 11:42

Hi all,

I am getting on weirdly well with FW atm, I think because the distance I've put between us has made him respect me a bit more. Don't worry I'm NOT getting sucked back in btw, but it's weird situation. I guess he senses I have detached and is scared of what I might do on some level. Also, because I don't give a rat's arse any more, I just deal with his difficult nature in the most expedient way to shut him up and cause less trouble around the home. Obviously it's a shit way to live long term, but for the short term it's making a better atmosphere which is good all round. Mind you I keep getting nervous that he's going to come home with bunch of flowers one day and say magnaminously "Hey,let's try again, I really love you, I am sorry" because that's what he's done in the past. Obvs I'd say no but facing the awkwardness and consequent fall out would be hideous. But on a brighter note than all this rambling.....................I was offered the job! :)

lostmywellies · 13/07/2012 11:47

Woohoo for the job, trying! Well done!

Wow, lemon. I haven't split and am not yet planning to (have it in the back of my mind as a possibility now, but still believe I am coping most of the time) - yet your story somehow feels so familiar! What took him to counselling? Did you ask him to go? And did he get nasty when you told him it was all over? Sorry for all the questions!

unhappyhildebrand · 13/07/2012 13:16

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baskingseals · 13/07/2012 13:16

to get dh to go to relate i had to make out it was only for my benefit. because i was mad and unable to cope, he went only as a favour to me.
needless to say it wasn't sucessful. the counsellor, though lovely, felt sorry for dh as i am so much more 'articulate'. oh yes. poor poor little dh. dh told me that the counsellor was on 'his side'

we didn't do more than about 3 sessions.

however i just wanted to say again how grateful i am to all of you. i honestly don't know what will happen, but i know i will never feel as desperate and vulnerable as i have been.

it is OKAY to be me. to want what I want.

if dh cannot change - don't know if he can or not yet, then i will vote with my feet.

love and support to you all. x

unhappyhildebrand · 13/07/2012 13:19

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newbeteacher · 13/07/2012 13:48

I have done NSDH has been removed from the abode (it is rented and I have been here the longest!!) second time lucky I hope. His behaviour over the past 2 days has crushed me to the point that I decided that I was not going to let him control me any longer - now time to wait for the fall out.

unhappyhildebrand · 13/07/2012 13:55

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LemonDrizzled · 13/07/2012 13:57

I'm working through a list of things in the Big House today trying to decide what I want to ask for in the divorce settlement while FWH tries to control the process AND avoid paying me any money for stuff.
Like fingers I am yearning to walk away with nothing but the moral high ground but my Lovely Solicitor is making me toughen up and ask for my share.

I am going to ask for the train set and the moses basket. That will throw him!!

wellies IIRC I started going to individual counselling which I loved. (FWH didn't know then I had had an affair and shocked myself rigid). Later I told him and we started going to Relate. He needed a counsellor too because he was very distressed and unable to work (because he is so sensitive!)

He became very weird while we were breaking up, drinking neat whisky from the bottle, driving at 100 mph and breaking doors. I was quite scared. But it did make it easier to leave, especially when he insisted on non consensual sex with me. It was "look what you made me do" and threats of self harm I think.

Oh I am glad all that is behind us. Now we can concentrate on being better parents!

LemonDrizzled · 13/07/2012 14:01

well done newbe have a Brew and a Biscuit and some Thanks

lostmywellies · 13/07/2012 14:14

Well done newbe!

Yup, that sounds weird, lemon. Not to mention scary. Glad for you that you're out.

newbeteacher · 13/07/2012 14:45

Thank you lovely ladies. I have gained enormous inner strength from being on here. I feel very tearful, empowered, wobbly etc etc but it is a good feeling knowing that he will not be coming home :)

veeeee · 13/07/2012 15:49

Well done newbe and to trying on the new job Smile

unhappyhildebrand · 13/07/2012 15:50

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unhappyhildebrand · 13/07/2012 18:46

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whattodoandwhentodoit · 13/07/2012 21:14

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foolonthehill · 13/07/2012 22:42

What what would it take for you to go? Do you have RL people who can support and help you?? Can we halp you?

Hilde !!!! well done you
Money saving expert has a good section on "basic bank accounts" and online banking that can be opened without credit checks and without regular income.

wellies sorry...clearly was FW you were referring to...duh...

newbi Grin and Wine well done, keep him out!

trying also Wine toast to job and a new you!

OP posts:
whattodoandwhentodoit · 13/07/2012 22:51

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unhappyhildebrand · 14/07/2012 07:08

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newbeteacher · 14/07/2012 07:35

hilde it's because at some stage we fell in love with them so that along with years of being ground down by FWH is the reason we get sucked in.

Today is the start of my new life but I am aware that it is going to be tough purely ATM because I am emotionally exhausted. I still have to tell DCs that daddy is not coming home but I now it will be ok in the end.

My turning point was the mean/sweet FW doing this on alternative days. It made me so angry because I'm so aware of his behaviour now that I was not going to be controlled by this man anymore.

I am very lucky though to have a strong support network to hold me up. But there is help for you lovely ladies if you don't have family near. Women's aid have a link to local contact numbers. I did that because WA was constantly engaged. I live in a housing association house who referred me to local domestic abuse support service who have been fab. And whether your family live 3 or 300 miles away I think they would rather know what is going on x

whattodoandwhentodoit · 14/07/2012 08:15

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TodaysAGoodDay · 14/07/2012 09:40

Well done newbe! Smile That's fantastic.