Turning Tavern IV - Down Bi the riverside, near the well of loneliness...

[NotForProfit]

Hi all,

thought i'd be proactive and start a new thread for the wenches of the turning tavern as the old thread's pretty much full...

for anyone new to this, it's a thread for women suddenly finding themselves attracted to another woman, so grab a glass of something intoxicating, pull up a chair by the fireside and we'll try to help one another deal with the elation, confusion and heartache of rediscovering your sexuality.

Thanks Outmy! Think i'll stick to halves rather than pints

i've thought of a bit of a cunning preamble, now must try not to over-rehearse it in my head!

hi outny and NotFor - so the drinks aer today?been v.busy last few days, saw wiq too. You know, NotFor your post on top of this page does give me hope - whe i think if any positive scenario re my wiq I imagine just that - that didn't quickly tine in to me and seemed mistrustful a bit but then she strated softening and also some head spinning vibes occasionally but as if she's determined to control herself or is in denial! only the bit about male attention doesn't apply.
It's also interesting as I felt a strong urge t tell her she was beauitiful especially at earlier stages - why is it this in particular you want to say? I suppose if she told you the same then it's ideal as you aer not going to shock her or seem odd if she did it, but opportunity to develop the talk into more! good luck!
I'm happy todeay as wiq has been nice - I always float on cloud nne on such days, isan't it silly (I mean and then feel really down when she's off), I'm so happy when she laughts with me and takes time to chat a little - she seemed to linger this time a bit more - bliss! I'm steering this into friendliness but no way my felings stopped, tey get fed my nice days like this on, it's totally illogical but makes you SO happy..Oh how would I want to know if she feels even a fraction of this.

sorry for shocking typos (including 'outny'!), was in a rush earlier, now had a chance to rest at least!

hi all, things aren't looking hopeful. she disappeared and didn't bother with the pub, (again) so i made my excuses and left. not feeling great about it all, surely if she wanted to see me on a more personal level, she'd make the effort to get to social things?

likea - the reason i want to tell her she's beautiful is that it's how i perceive her and it's more of an aesthetic judgment than a full-on come-on. leaves me less vulnerable than telling her i fancy her.

i must have scared her off in some way, without realising it. perhaps she finds me repulsive, like a big scary predatory woman on the prowl for sexual partners to devour or something...

I'm so glad you've had a good day with your WIQ, please ignore the rest of my rather bleak post. Lingering is a good sign.

NotFor, I have EXACTLY same fears that if she does suspect how I feel, then I could be seen as disgusting or predatory and even devious (trying to ingratiate with agenda). But tbh I don't think anyone nowadays sees bi/gay women in such an extrene light. We can always hope that attention is flattering - as many told me when i originally started these thread and a nubmer of completely straight women said they would be flattered by attebntion (I' was surprised!) even if no interest. You aer not doing it crudely, do you? I'm trying to be as 'elegant' or subtle about it as possible but in the same time you do want her to notice or wonder so it's a fine line betwen 'too subtle' and too crude. I don't tink she was put off by you as it sounds like she is either bi also, OR enjoys the fantasy/risky thinking, from all yo udescribed. To me the most likely thing is she IS attracted to you but knows that she would lose her P id she acted on it, and mayne deliberately starting avoiding get together when drink is involved as she is worried you aer both 'ripe' to act on it. I know it could be also that she is not interested and just likes to use imagination, but the first option is not at all unfeasible.

yes, lingered today - but it's not atall consistent!
She also stared at me a bit during conversation today - do you think it's good or bad? you know in a kind of studying way without showing impatience (as she does somtimes) when I was thinking of an answer to something - I sort of suf=ddebly looked and she was almost pointendly keeping eye contact, but not playful or smiley - a bot unusual for her, is this not good? I mean wouldn't a person who's attracted be more smiley or sort of fleetingly looking?

sorry again re errors - on new notebook, not used to the small size of keys!

hard to say for sure, but i think sort of studying you could possibly be a good thing. like she's 'taking you in' mentally.

I don't think i do it in a crude way... i do try to be subtle and i'm quite shy about the whole thing in RL.

Keep trying to cheer myself up by thinking about the other woman at the school gates, who's pretty blatant, always makes eye-contact and seems to have mastered 'the look' and isn't afraid to use it. I quite often see her at the swimming pool and to be honest she may as well have her tongue hanging out, such is her lack of subtlety! she's very cute, i might add, if i didn't mention it before!

haha, that's funny..'tongue hanging out' - you see maybe it's the way to go! I often think that i should try a really brazen approach with wiq and maybe the shock would make her really dwell on it - worked on you to the extent of thinking about it, possibly even succumbing . Do you not like her enough? what would you do if wiq was out of the picture? It just shows that there's no need for word, you can be blatangt just by looking - is it sort of playful and lingering? I once tried a variation of that in the end of a long warm chat about things - but not 'tongue hanging out' more sort of sideways with a smile - but she then made excuses (obv not in disgust though as she didn't stop contact) - haven't tried since, though I always look at her , up and down and a lot of eye contact but it's not suggestive more admiring.

do you talk to the cure woman, or is it all exchange of glances?

God, just thought maybe I come across as blatant and tongue hanging out too?? - what with looking her up and down etc. - you wouldn't say anything to stop her even if not interested, would you, so my wiq could be the same, knowing that I'm not as brazen as to make pass at her unless she shows interest, but it CAN be as obv (and here am I thinking I'm subtle).

*cute

I'm sure you don't come across like that at all!

With Cute woman It's as though she's drinking me in, somehow, but she still manages to appear sweet and feminine and demure - it's quite an art!

Her gaze stays on me, with a slight, coy yet somehow frank and honest, smile as I move around. Tongue behind beautiful closed lips, obv!

Yes, if you can master such honesty in your gaze (especially if you happen to have pretty eyes, which i'm sure you do!) i honestly don't think any bi-leaning woman would be able to resist. My attraction to her is based pretty much wholly on how she does this and how it makes me feel (close to orgasmic actually, at 9am this morning) . She's very pretty, which doesn't hurt, but to be honest i'm surrounded by cute women most days in my work and at the school gates, (it's a tough life!) and only she and WIQ have caught my attention in this way. So, yes i would highly recommend it.

We've had approximately 3 conversations - one of which was when she approached me and said i had beautiful eyes (which might have been the second time)

I think if i wasn't holding an emotional torch for WIQ, which sadly i am, i would seriously consider it. In fact I almost suggested swapping phone numbers with cute woman today, but seemed wrong in front of dcs.

Saw WIQ today too, we spoke quite a bit but no new developments on that front at least. She was very hard to read, she almost seemed shy about meeting my gaze. Happy though.

Oh my! the power of feminine gaze! Acttually I do have pretty eyes (my faults are elsewhere) and I do already use them but of coursee no idea what effect (if any) this has on wiq. I do slightly coy slight smile - maybe I'n not too bad after all! but not sure what you mean my 'honest' - as in obviously sexual, or sort of clear and steady but kind of innicent (as if, nothing to be ashamed about). Threr wre times with us when we really held eyecontact (she was a bit drunk but only a bit) and it was getting so exciting - but she's waiting for something, and I'm waiting for her to say/ask something , eventually she always looks away and goes. What do you do when she looks at you like this - look away, smile? what's in your case a 'not interested' reaction? (though you aer a little bit interested).
I must say she was extrenely brazen to just come up and talk about your eyes! god, some people really ARE confident! I ached to say this to my wiq (love ger eyes) so many times but an a bloody chicken. Did compliment her on clothes/taste but that's as far as.
I think your wiq is pulling back due to concerns of where could it go (same partner issue). Did you gve her any signals when you talked?

I'd say both with CW as i'll call her from now on- it's clear and steady and also friendly and blatantly sexual, she clearly doesn't think there's anything to be ashamed of. And she always looks coyly happy to see me. I do try to reciprocate, but i usually look away for a bit as she comes towards me, then catch her eye (not difficult!) and smile sweetly and (with what i imagine might look like a hint of wistful longing)as she gets closer, and hold it for as long as I dare. I always look away first. That's me being interested but not in a position to act on it.

i agree about WIQ, after my initial awakening we exchanged a few quick-fire emails which although not overly flirtatious, seemed to be deliberately open to interpretation... now we seem to have reached a sort of quiet plateau.

Yesterday, I kept looking at her when we were talking, and she kept shyly looking away, and there was a point where i think i put more emotion into what i was saying than i usually would in order to back her up on an issue, and we had a longer than usual moment where we both held eye contact and smiled sweetly, and it felt at least to me that there was something deep and unspoken going on.

CW seems to be good at communicating her exact emotions simply through a look. It's like she's putting it all out there, into the space between us, but it's not intimidating really, or scary, it just is what it is.

well, you are in a position to act on it, bar hoping for something with wiq - but tbh you lucky, really lucky for someone to offer it in such a straight forward way (AND someone you like the look of!). I think you are not THAT absorbed with wiq if you could feel strong longing for CW or being near orgasm! Sounds like you aer keeen to keep her interested in case wiq doesn't happen - rightly so if you can sort of be interested in both.
That's what happens with my wiq - she keeps eye contact but then looks away inevitably first - but she is in a position to act on it really as she's single (unless she is either scared - if never done it before - or against gay involvenent in principle). Last time I felt quite lingering looks fromn her after she's downed a few glasses of wine late in the eve. There was someone else in her place (not near us) so nothing ibvious could happen, if it was just two of us maybe I would act on it(say something) as I feel much more encouraged and brave when she had drinks, she's just much more relaxed and warmer than. Does it sound to you that she thinks 'she's not in a position to act' - she obv has SOME reservation..But she was really looking at my body with a sliw gaze (again, I saw with periphiral vision as she stood next to me to the side and thought i wouldn't see her looking) and then i smiled and looked in a meaningful way when sayiong good night and she thought of lingered and looked but again just walked away.

peripheral, involvement...jeez why is there no edit function oh here!???

*sort of lingered

It does sound like she was seriously checking you out! Perhaps she's just not sure if she's ready for the reality of sex with another woman..?

Even I wonder whether i'll actually like it if/when it comes down to it. And whether she'll like the reality of me, as i am, iyswim?

I shouldn't dismiss CW, I know I'm pretty lucky to have got her attention. It does feel like she's lobbed the ball firmly into my court with the amount of attention she gives me daily, and that it's up to me to decide whether I want to act on it.

Perhaps i'm just a hussy, being so easily distracted by two women at once, but it definitely feels as though WIQ won't succumb easily so I'm starting to feel like I should just go with the flow on both counts. Life is short, after all...

no this IS a healthy attitude (to keep options open) rather than being stuck on the unattainable for ages! we all know about it on this forum though some aer with a chance still. If your wiq was single, or at least in a casual r-ship I'd say stick with it for a while - she seems attracted really. BUT with the complication of her partner and working together, it's VERY wise to keep your eyes open for other opportunities, and it's stlil very lucky that you already have another option parralel to wiq almost, i.e. not enough time passed to get too stuck on wiq.
For some reason you sound so at ease with it that it's hard to imagine you have no experience! but I'm exactly the same - worried a bit how I will like hte reality of actual sex with a woman and of course, how would she like it. Being much older than me, she nust have even more worried whether I'll like her body if she's attracted. I kind of feel that maybe it is reasonable of her to think I should inittiate as a younger person? what do you think? She also likes to be in control so if I offer she would feel more comfortable rather than recklessly risking rejection (I know I give signals, but she nay not be sure). Of course I do facerejection if I misread her aftre all. Sometimes she is really cool and off with me. I'd say something long ago if it wasn't for that.

outmy, is this your last week at school? you've gone quiet!

hmmm.. not sure what the conventions are re whether the older/younger woman should be the one to make the move. I seem to remember that your age gap is roughly double the one I have with WIQ, so yes, possibly in your case the onus may be on you, esp as she might have even more body hang-ups than people our age! if that's possible!

In my case, my purely intuitive assessment of my WIQ is that she does have quite a bit of experience of sex, and even relationships, with other women. No hard evidence for this whatsoever, i'm just interpreting her over-all vibe. I think she may well have quelled her appetites in this regard for the past few years, as she's now in a relationship with a man, and perhaps thinking about further committments in that respect. I could be completely wrong, but I doubt it.

I'm surprised you say I sound at ease! I feel a total mess! My feelings for WIQ are heading dangerously towards love (which i could barely conceal yesterday) and i'm pretty sure was obvious to her and others in the room.

I honestly think in your case you'd be better of being taking the initiative with her, as it sounds like she's got more reason to fear rejection than you do. In my case, i'm not sure who would fear it the most; we've both got bloody good reasons. I'm glad I didn't kiss her that time I realised how i felt, it could've been bloody disastrous if anyone had seen. Being drunk and in public probably wouldn't have been a good start.

Is there any way you can broach the subject with her? Perhaps start with some remote example from celeb-land - i dunno who! and see what reaction you get? Then ask 'so have you ever...' and look her coyly in the eyes and smile etc.

I mean. at ease with the sexual side - not as far as love goes. It's the way you pick up their vibes so easily without much doubt as to your interpretation, as if you are experienced. Say , guessing your wiq had experience - I would never guess with anyone who is with a man and not 'in your face' gay, I also wouldn't be too sure with someone like your CW, could think she's just ingratiatin as a friend possibly. You also seem at ease as you are fancy two women at once.
I'm younger by 15yrs+ and I think this ios the main (and big) problem for her. Is hshe enertain it it would be with someone nearer her age just because it looks better and she doesn't seem ridiculous (even men have these complexes). Plus indeed body issues - of course I'm in better shape, she had children and is older! she is very fit for her age though but she's not a gym bunny by any stretch of imagination, mainbly good genes, so of course insecure to some extent. But then I do everything to give her admiring looks and compliments - she never ONCE complimented me. I'm waiting (still) for the right moment to say something as unfortunately she's either working or people aer around when i see her - though if I was very brave I could have found the moment already - it's also to do with her mood swings, as I couldn't doing on her 'off' days. I'm now also very jelous about some girl (a bit youngere than me) who she is praising to the skies (how nice she is etc - she's also quite pretty) I'm dreading the possibility she fancies her over me. I'm really in the process of cooling it (trying to) but due to her being so warm this week, I'm again feeling all emotional. I even saw a dream today where her older GF turned up and got undressed(!) and they wer exchanging meaningful glances - weird eh, with both wiq and me still dressed, and ten the GF told me in private that wiq just likes me as a person and maybe is jus t sympathetic to me, but anything passionate..she doesn't really see it. I was arguing that she couldn't reallly know (by this time she was dressed again) - funny, eh? the dream ebded with me thinking that wiq is being secretive about me with her GF. ..