Turning Tavern IV - Down Bi the riverside, near the well of loneliness...

[NotForProfit]

Hi all,

thought i'd be proactive and start a new thread for the wenches of the turning tavern as the old thread's pretty much full...

for anyone new to this, it's a thread for women suddenly finding themselves attracted to another woman, so grab a glass of something intoxicating, pull up a chair by the fireside and we'll try to help one another deal with the elation, confusion and heartache of rediscovering your sexuality.

Hello over here. I'm not really posting on the TTs any more but it's good to see it is continuing. I still skim the thread each week to see if likea has told her WIQ yet, and other updates!
I've come a long way since the first TT thread and in the last 6 months in general. I've not got a gf, and former WIQ is now just a fantasy I let myself indulge in every so often. I have, however, come out to all and sundry. Most people in my life know now and DH and I are amicably in separate bedrooms and expecting to be in separate homes by October.
Coming out has been really hard, especially with family. My mum is in pretty deep denial, but most people are starting to get over the shock. I've been out to a few lesbian nights in my area and am 100% confident I've made the right decision.

All the best to those of you going through this turmoil. Feel free to give me a shout if my experience could be useful to you.

Hi OUTMY. No, no encounters with women yet, but I definitely know! It was one day that I finally realised I was gay and I haven't for one moment questioned it since. So much in my life has fallen into place in terms of thoughts and feelings I've had since I was a kid. Really, both my husband and I are gobsmacked that I didn't realise earlier, although that was due to denial and survival tactics in terms of my family.

I feel so incredibly comfortable in my own skin now. I can't believe I lived such a half lived life before. I feel sad for my younger self.

As I said, I haven't been following the thread properly, what's the latest with your WIQ?

My latest hobby appears to be lesbian spotting. Some of it is probably wishful thinking. Of the lesbians I know, most are coupled off. I think it's going to be very hard to meet someone, but I'm hoping it will be totally worth it when I do.

Sorry about your WIQ. Was yours the teacher? From what I read it didn't look hopeful. I think these crazy crushes are often far more about us than the women they are about.

hi Myelin,
i'm relatively new to this series of theads and i'm intrigued that your life seems to have undergone such a radical change. wow, you sound incredibly brave.

regarding how our crazy sort of crushes say more about us than our WIQ, do you think mine could be along similar lines? I don't expect you to have read all my posts so to summarise i fancy someone who's basically my boss, bit of a hippy, few years older, has a male dp but no kids; flirts a lot when i'm around, fond of innuendos etc and seems to do a lot of fishing for compliments. told my dh how i feel and he's very open minded (or just wants a threesome depending on your opinion) and also says he always suspected she had a thing for me. we do after work drinks now and again as a group which i'm hoping might be an opportunity as last time she seemed to hang around/ buy me drinks etc and made a bit of a beeline for me towards the end of the evening...

I think it's much easier if you know you are gay, like Myelin, then you do have a choice among other gay women, it's a matter of time and luck same as with hetero r-ships. I also notice lesbians only when they walk around in a coup;e, otherwise I wouldn't know unless she was very boyish in style. When you aer bi though it's much harder as you don't have hte focus and obv there are much more men available so the chances aer against meeting a gay woman who you like and who likes you and who's out of the closet if bi! I do think there is quite a num,ber of gay women, outmy, there are cluibs as Myelin says, or internet, I just dont feel purposeful about it but you could try if you aer definitely off men. I'm off men right now but I need to see how I fel in a couple of months if nothing happens with wiq. I'm not closed off to the idea of a right man though. I don't know why but I'm MUCH fussier about women (maybe because I'm really mainly hetero), I don't like many at all , not enough to want to get closer. This is why wiq is like some Holy Grail , perfect (for me) apart from the bloody age gap!
outmy, I just like her THAT much as a person in all aspects including her looks, to want to be friends if nothing romantic happens. I feel it's deep even though many say on here that crushes aer not love - well they can be. Maybe not mutual love but you can love a whole person - I can see her faults too but it doesn't matter. I feel like romantic thing is quite 'greedy' you know, that it would be icing on the cake - though of course until I'm friends with her properly I wouldn't know if I could ignore my other feelings enough.
Trust me outmy, she's very confident socially! Being low and unconfident ae not the same thing..She is very good of telling people where her boundaries aer (I'm not, I don't like conflict) - I'm learning from nher as she can do it calmly but people respect it. She has a number of female and male friends, she's valued at work too, she has men after her, and comes across as popular but never ingratiating. She CAN be low, as i say I've seen the vulnerable side, but it's either health related or stress about children (there were reasons earlier for that). But the thing is I'd be g;adly there for her (and I told her as much) if she needed any help or support. She's very much like a man though - she doesn't seem to moan to her friends, but just goes quite and has alone time - I WISH she shared with me as I can be very good at being supportive to her - again told her that in a text - but she doesn't want to go that route, maybe because senses vibes and worried that this would encourage me or that she may start feeling something stronger (that's the best scenario). Once soon after we met her relative died, and I thought she was cold once and asked whether she's ok - she just said fine with a very sour face but never confided, I only learned later. She is like that. If she was weaker/more feminine in that way I think I would get closer by now as not many people aer there when she'd want support.
She may well be unconfident if she does feel gay feelings, but I did hint many times and feel like whenever i try to say more she just becomes evasive/avoids replying.
Myelin, I must be such a disappointment for you if you check weekly - still no confession. really pleased for you that you found yourself!!

NotFor I think yours is very realistic (sorry, it's while you wait for My's response) as far as your mutual interest, BUT we still don't know her partner's attitude, and it could be all futile depending on that.

true. i've no way of knowing his attitude as the only time we've ever been in the same (large, crowded) room together, she didn't introduce us and seemed to make a point of keeping us apart, actually. dh says that same evening he caught her staring straight at me as we left quite early and when she realised he'd seen her she looked really embarassed.

but for the moments earlier in the evening when they (she and her dp) were kissing or hugging momentarily (they didnt' do it much) i remember thinking how blissful she looked, actually. still doesn't tell us anything about his attitude, i realise. it does seem he's quite happy for her to have her own life though, which may or may not be a good sign. he's not forever hanging on to her coat-tails or anything.

outmy, I was reading your post about the North and was nodding, as only a week ago I've heard some woman talk to her friend about cities (she is not English so didn't mind about being PC), and saying I'd move to Newcastle in a beat as it's all traditional and not multicultural or alternative place - and the city I live in now is full of asian immigrants, weird hippies and lesbians (and she made 'shudder' noise)! - so that shows there aer still attitudes, though she was in her 50s, not common with young generation at least! I think SE and SW are the most 'chilled', minus parts of Surrey

Notfor - what are you hoping for from her? My initial reaction from what you've written is that she might like some fun with you, but then again if you're both married she may see you as 'safe' to flirt with because you'd be unlikely to respond.
She is obviously open to being with men, but to me the idea of a threesome would not be fun at all. I'm also not that fond of casual sex, which is what I think this might lead to, so am not really in a position to comment.

NotF, having her life is one thing, but open marriage is bit more! unless he's also hippyish like her and of a 'share free love' school. Majority (again) wouldn't accept if married. Your H very untypical, possibly as he's bi himself.

myelin, well originally i was hoping for sex, but my feelings for her are starting to be more than that

yes, i know chances of her dp being cool with it are so remote as to be laughable. it's interesting that people think my dh could be bi as he definitely had dalliances with other men in his late teens and it's never bothered me. well not much anyway.

but that was the past and this is now, i suppose.

Hi all, I just need to vent. Right -saw her yesterday she looked glorious in an androgenous way. sort of tired too, but all the more beautiful for it. i could see her looking at me from time to time but every time i looked at her, she looked away quite shyly, not in an unfriendly way. she didn't meet my eye very much and didn't come for drinks with the rest of us, for some reason, but as I walked away I turned around and saw she was watching me, our eyes met and she was smiling softly. really disappointed she didn't come, and wondering if she's trying to tell me something, or if she's just not that into me. or not into me at all, in fact. perhaps the whole thing's been in my head? god, she's beautiful. I feel like i wouldn't care if she was male or female, she'd be equally amazing. so strong, but the vulnerable side to her is just below the surface. i know a lot of bi people say that about the person they fall for. (the not mattering if the person is male or female, and that you fall for the whole package.) That's how it's always been for me with men, and now it seems my feelings can be that way for women too.

i spent the whole night talking to some really beautiful, interesting, lovely, people of both genders, but i couldn't help wishing she'd just walk in and light up the room with her slightly off sense of humour and non-sequiters (sp?) i felt so ungrateful not to just be able to appreciate being there in the moment and to feel that longing for her. i'll see her tomorrow, possibly, but it seems too long, and too hit and miss, whether we'll speak, or whether we won't. whether she's cottoning on or not. whether that would even be a good thing.

oh, and she did look very happy when i walked into the room initially, sometimes i think i catch her doing the sharp, intake of breath thing, when she first lays eyes on me during the course of the day. but i didn't really respond, except in a general way to everyone, so that might have something to do with how she was. possibly.

(Once, a few months ago when she definitely did do this there weren't many people around and she followed it with a 'you look beautiful'). but that was then. this is now.

i keep thinking 'what can i do to speed things along, or get a result faster?' even if it's a negative?

i've had some wacky ideas like confiding in a mutual friend at work in a sort of 'oh yeah, i think she's so hot' sort of way. but said friend isn't really fully aware i have any leanings in that direction, (although i have dropped some hints) so might seem a bit random.

I've thought about emailling her and telling her how i feel, but i know she'd have to show people it, she's not one for keeping things to herself - she quite often jokes about people (men) who have sent her admiring emails (one of the reasons I wondered if she could be hinting, or trying to get my attention as she seemed to start those kinds of conversations a lot when i was around).

i've thought about texting her... but so easy to misconstrue a text, and i feel they always ahve to be 'about' something.

i just want to know if she feels the same way! if not, that's something i'm prepared to accept. so frustrating!

thanks Outmy - ok, so email is out. you're right, much too permanent. plus there's the inevitable long, drawnout wait for a reply.

ok, so i may get a chance to tell her tomorrow if she comes for drinks. if being the operative word. that's if we get a moment alone... which is often nigh-on impossible. do you think it'd be weird if i just told her she was beautiful? not in a romantic way, but a casual one? and if other people were present? i mean i do tell my friends they're lovely, so it's not that weird... although the way i end up saying it might give it more gravitas than i'd like it to have. tricky, esp if slightly pissed.

thanks for saying you think there's a chance she might reciprocate. i'm not sure at present; even if she does feel the same way, i don't know if she'd know what to do with it. i'm not sure i do either. i feel like going back through every text and email she's ever sent me to look for clues! god, i'm sad.

to answer an earlier question, i've never explored my gay side in rl, apart from drunken snogging when i was a teenager. over the years it's waxed and waned, and i'm in a particularly waxing period at the moment.

YOU ARE NOT SAD:o And that is what this thread is for. We are all/have been in completely obsessive states where our WIQ are concerned. I used to analyze every single look my WIQ gave,where she stood,was she standing closer to me for any reason?, has she done her hair differently today for my benefit?, oh god i was terrible, we have all done it and nobody judges on this thread for that reason so dont worry. Drone on about her all you like!!
No i dont think it would be weird if you told her she was beautiful. Im sure she would be thrilled! And it wouldnt necessarily be taken in a sexual manner if you regretted it afterwards,ive had friends say that to me in the past,not saying i agree with them mind you:o Slightly pissed better i think, settle the nerves!!

thanks. i do sit there guessing why she's chosen that particularl outfit, especially as she swings so wildly from blokey, couldn't-give-a-fuck to quite girly dresses and things. probably depends more on whatever her plans are that day than anything for my benefit! i don't think my choices are quite that different from one day to the next...

ok, so a slightly pissed 'you're beautiful' or 'i think you're beautiful' it is then.

i was thinking i might try asking her casually about her relationship, i.e how long they've been together, and then see if it leads on to more of a discussion of her past relationships to try and gauge whether women feature as partners... and if i'm feeling wild i might say 'so, have you always been with men?' ooh, daring

or perhaps talking about our respective upbringings, people's prejudices etc. it's making me feel sad because at least twice now when we've been alone or nearly alone she's randomly brought up an anecdote about someone being homophobic and i wonder now if she was trying to get to something?

i just get such an incredible vibe from her. i can't believe it's not based in anything. the amount of times i can recall just looking up during a meeting and seeing her looking straight at me with this look of apparent admiration or something...

it feels like its taken me a while to tune in to her, at the beginning it felt like there was something about her i didn't trust, or didn't like and i couldn't put my finger on it. i was like the female equivalent of the macho man in denial. i think it was because i found her massively attractive but didn't want to admit it to myself. i convinced myself we were competing against each other (for male attention?) and now i realise i don't want to compete with her at all.