Living with a narcissist

[Abitwobblynow]

Is hard. Busy taking one day at a time whilst I work on myself and developing stability. He isn't horrible but he isn't available either.

Anyway, now that my eyes are opened, it is sad/interesting to see the mini-moments that announce his narcness, that I was so blind to before! If I see them, I can either set boundaries or self-soothe to stay calm.

Last weekend, he tells me he bought a Ferrari. *

So, phone rings (he is on a business trip). Telling me about his evening out with adoring female acolytes (he likes them best). I started telling him about two of our friends, who are having issues.

Silence, and then: well then. I must go.

I have come on so much. I used to be destroyed, now I feel vaguely sorry for him. It must be awful to be that empty.

*Don't worry. Whilst I did not cause him, cannot cure him and certainly can't control him, it went down on the list with all the other toys for misappropriation of marital assets when the time comes.

I am sad that I do not have the marriage I thought I did. I am sad I don't have the love I hoped for. I am sad he cannot be human. I have wasted my life emotionally, and I didn't mean to, and I am sorry for his damage. But as Yet his damage still hurts me. I struggle to stay detached.

The first sentence. I identify so much with it. This is where my situational depression came in. I just couldn't let go of the relationship. So I stayed in it, I tried to change him, I tried to change me. That can lead two places, to full blown severe depression, or suicide. Sorry for being harsh. That is where I was heading. Your therapist should NOT be telling you what to do or not. It is NOT his place to tell you to stay with him. He is not being ethical. It should be all your own choice, he should just be listening and feeding back to you what you say to him. Ok, if he is actually an ok therapist, then if he is doing that (feeding back to you your own thoughts) it is not him saying stay, it is you. You do have the choice to leave.

I left. Now I can honestly say it is the best thing I ever did. And I have nothing from the marriage, including job at the moment. I am in the process of rebuilding my life and it is hard and scary and do-able. But so much less scary than continuing in the relationship the way it was.

My best advice, from my experiences, you need a good support network. You need friends and family to talk to. So you can feel supported and vent at times. My support also came from therapy. And from CODA meetings. And just going out and meeting people on a more casual basis (e.g. taking up a hobby).

why don't I just calm down, stop punishing him and carry on like before.

The second, it is part of the game. You are playing a role, that he needs. You can stop, you need to detach and stop expecting a narcissist to fulfill a role in your life that he just can't. You learn a lot about detaching (with love) at al anon, where you are still in the life of an alcoholic, but what they do and the way they behave you put down to the illness of alcoholism and you separate that out from the person and change your role in the 'game'. I guess it could be similar with narcissism, if you think of narcissism as a spectrum disorder (from very few narcissistic tendencies at 1 through to full blown disorder at 10), so the narcissist may have some normal traits too.

I think what worries me more is that their father will lose interest in them

from one daff to another: are you insane?? THAT IS THE BEST POSSIBLE OUTCOME

(sorry to shout)

do please get it that narcissists are terrifyingly bad news and the further you can get your children away from them, the better. They bring nothing (and I mean NOTHING) but terrifying, head-fucking, desperately damaging, traumatising abuse.

springdaffs thanks for the wake up call!

Yes, you are right. I still have a lot of work to do adjusting out of my habitual mindset. I still seem to have a tendency to think of him as normal, I suppose I am so the opposite of narcissistic that I just don't comprehend the way he thinks and acts. Hence me developing the situational depression, aka repeatedly flogging a dead horse hoping for a different outcome.

Yes I agree. I also worried for a long time that their father will lose interest in them. And I can see that this is happening. But TBH I have also come round to seeing that this is a good thing. He is a very unhealthy thing in their lives.

Fine while they are small and can be used as accessories, playthings. But as I have noticed them assert themselves as people, the manipulation has started. And I have learned how to give the self-esteem that they need to stand up to that. He DOES NOT like that.

Anyway, it is his choice to lose interest. I spent a lot of time chasing him for contact, reminding him of their activities, interests, including him in their plans. One-sided effort so it was him controlling me remotely. Since I stopped, he is moving further away from them. It hurts them, yes, but otherwise I am selling them a lie about a person who is not nice, is harmful. Why would I continue to put my children in danger like that?

I see that. Mine are still very little and as you say, playthings. But already I see he is fonder of the little one, as the big one is more assertive. And he sees the boy as a mini-me. (It makes me so sad).

The only time my ex had interest in his beautiful ds was to use the photos on FB and dating sites to draw his female victims in!

The day I stopped feeding ex as my brother died, he lost interest and walked out guilt free of course with his next feed ready leaving a 5 month pregnant woman in grief totally beaten emotionally...I call Narcs vampires as they drain every drop of emotional energy out of their victim, before moving on...

You don't live with a Narc...you try and survive a Narc!

Springdaffs I was just telling another MN you and someone called (something)diamond understood the cruel terrifying gas lighting! I find it hard to write about it too now and I was relieved when you came along and explained your history to me that time as I thought I was going crazy at the time! The sharing the experienced really helped! I was different name then possibly.
I'm finishing my therapy soon, it is a must!

It is the cruelest thing seaofyou, the gaslighting. To make someone doubt their own hearing/memory/sanity just to try and look like a better person yourself. Only someone with absolutely no regard for others' feelings could do that.

Its like they turn the tables and you end up 'abusing yourself' - dismissing your own pain, trying to forget hurtful words in case you did actually mis-hear or take it the wrong way. Telling yourself you must be wrong, even though you KNOW you're right.

We went out for dinner one evening and out of the blue H said that if I didn't start having sex with him more often, he'd have to find someone who would (there was someone specific in mind at this point, I'm sure).

I didn't know what to do with that and didn't want to make a scene, but in the car on the way home I cried and when he asked why and I told him, his response was "I didn't say that. That's an awful thing to say. Why would I want to upset you?" He has since accepted that it was a terrible thing to say and apologised, but as it was a long while ago, its like it doesn't really matter any more, I should just get over it.

He has used that line a lot - "why would I want to make you feel bad about yourself? I want you to be happy because then you're less annoying" but the things he has said and done have been designed to belittle me and grind me down so that I will be subservient enough to comply with whatever he needs me to do.

Funny that since I found my inner strength (thank you wise ladies of MN!) he has accepted that it is over and moved out.

the because then you're less annoying was unspoken but there nonetheless!

Sorry Dream, I was going to list all the toys he bought himself to make himself feel better/fill the inner void, but decided that they are too identifying in RL.

But they would make you . Sports motor bikes, cars, and more than one of each.

He has since accepted that it was a terrible thing to say and apologised, but as it was a long while ago, its like it doesn't really matter any more, I should just get over it...

is classic. My devastation at his affair and insistance that he explain himself truthfully is just me being difficult, punishing and not getting over anything.

But: his behaviour does not determine my worth. I MUST get a life.

Springy: I did appreciate the therapist telling me that as it confirmed my instincts.

Wobbly might be very many things but one thing Wobbly ain't is stupid. I must consolidate my life, and then I will be in a position to move from strength.

In the mean time, I must work on really really getting that this is what he is like and ACCEPTING it. Once I accept, I will not expect in any way shape or form for him to fill any need.

One thing that has changed, is I call him on stuff. He hates it. I also invite him to go and find another admiring twat who will tell him how wonderful he is. He absolutely hates that too - the reality of what his affair was. He knows that when I tell him he can do whatever he likes (and I mean it) the division of assets will commence soon thereafter if he does.

Just decided to pop up with my twopenneth... I recognize so many of the examples & behaviours shared on here that I have little doubt my STBX is a prime example of a Narcissist albeit not having any £ to buy ridiculous toys anymore as has blown all our money on his failed attempts at "being his own boss" but they of course have been for our benefit - so therefore ultimately our fault.
Having played theco-dependent role for so long, making excuses, backing up his 'it's just so unlucky" pleas when his self serving projects have miserably failed. That I am scared my 2 older children have been well & truly sucked into believing it all (as I was, to be fair). So now I'm detaching & trying to save what's left of me & rebuild the rest & save my youngest dd from a similar fate, my older 2 seeme as selfish & dad as the victim - which he is playing to the hilt.
I fear my son will adopt similar behaviours & my daughter will get sucked into a relationship with a Narc as she's been 'primed' for it.

If nothing else see taking action while yourchildren are younger as a positive thing for them.

Bryter, its awful isn't it, when you're trying to protect your DCs and they see HIM as poor dad and you as the bully for throwing him out.

My H managed to squander thousands by having a year off work after we sold our business. We had a big property to sell and he decided that it wasn't worth letting the estate agents deal with viewings (of course they couldn't do as good a job as him) so he had to be on hand to tend to things go for long days out on his motorbike and spend hours mowing the lawn and clipping the hedges.

I wouldn't mind but he was depressed even then, with all the time in the world to himself. The estate agent actually took me aside and said he was worried H was suicidal at the time! I honestly believe that once he realises what he has thrown away here, he will feel that way again (he's already said he wouldn't care if he crashed on the way home from work, that's why he knew things had to change here - my fault of course) so I know nothing I can do would ever be enough to make him happy. He just has no joy in his soul (or no soul?!)

By the time we sold the place a year later we'd lost any equity we had on paying for living costs on credit cards, and were on the verge on bankruptcy when my darling mum died and left us a big lump, which we put into buying this house (about 33% deposit)

I'm so pissed off that now I will lose half of that to him, when I don't have a well-paid job or a pension or any of the security he has, and have to rely on benefits (and his benevolence) to see me through until I can earn a decent wage

And acceptance is definitely the key Wobbly, you're right. Once you stop expecting anything of him you can't be disappointed any more and I think its only a small step from there to saying 'its over'. Took me a couple of weeks to go from "I'm doing this anyway, I don't care what H thinks" to the final last straw.

I hate to say this because it's our worst nightmare but my daughter, at least, is a full-blown narc. Whether it's hereditary or learned behaviour I really don't know. It has broken my heart in a million pieces if I'm honest. I am currently NC with her as that really is the only possible option.

anyway, do everything you possibly can to remove your kids from the narc and to educate them about narcissism. imo it needs to be in-your-face stuff, not subtle and ah well, daddy's just a bit different. Read the Melanie stuff to get the gist of how to tell it straight - I especially found the No Contact book amazing for telling it like it is. Hard to read but absolutely spot on.

Bryter, do everything you can to educate your kids, esp your daughter. They should teach this stuff in schools imo.

A mini moment of living w a narc:

H [question]. Then walks away to another part of the house.
Wobbly [answer]
H [what?]
Wobbly [louder]
H [I am here, you know]
Wobbly feels slighted and foolish.

Small moment of disrespect and devaluation, these go up the scale up to huge moment of OW's sleepovers on my side of the bed.

OW sleepovers on your side of the bed - WTF? That's not disrespect and devaluation that's being a complete C*NT

You shouldn't be feeling slighted and foolish, he should be for asking a question then walking away before you've answered him. What a pointless thing to do.

Next time couldn't you just ignore him and then when he eventually comes back in (after much bellowing I'm sure) saying "answer me then" just say "oh, sorry, as you'd left the room I thought the conversation had finished" Take the wind out his sails by treating him as the childish fool that he is being.

Hi all - another one here who could have written your posts. Will tell P of 24 years to go next week at his therapy session to go.
Like Bryter and DoingIt my P has spent untold thousands (100's of thousands) on failed businesses/investments, being his own boss, going back to uni, and taking "voluntary"redundancy from very well paid jobs without discussing it with me thoroughly,falling out with estate agent, solicitors and becoming obessed with time consuming and very expensive hobbies.

For the past few years he has spent all his time on his expensive extreme sports, sitting on the internet "working" and railing at the kids to be quiet when they come in from school as he can't get "his work" done (work= forums for hobbies and sports an ebay)in our small office-less house

Like DoingIt because of his farting about with our large house- we ended up in rented housing in the new town he insisted we "downshift" to and after 18 months finally sold the house in a falling market for a shedload less than had he accepted a reasonable offer at the start. We also were paying the mortgage on the house the entire time while also rent on new place and living on our credit cards. The equity from house should have bought about 80% of current house but he got one of the last "liar "mortgages and kept half the equity to "live on" and invest. He claims he is "self employed" so we don't even get benefits- we are almost broke (I think- although he may have a secret account) and when we split there will not be enough equity to even buy a one bed flat.

I am also worried about my children - DD1 introduced me to her uni boyfriend last week and I think he may well be a narc , he is very like my P.

Doing It yes my charmer has just said in mediation that he wants a valuation of my engagement & eternity () rings so he can have his "share" but expects all the loans & debts he accumulated in his sole name(only more recent ones of £30+k, since I started questioning his judgement & he stopped borrowing in joint names) to now be joint debt...
SpringyD interesting you think i should be 'out there' with the Narc info. I wonder if they will accept & recognise his behaviour (though I have stupidly protected them from a lot of it over the years which wouldn't help). I also feel sad that they will maybe have a lesser relationship with their dad if they go no contact or similar & that wouldnt be good either. Hoping the recommended site has ways of communicating which lead peopleto recognise signs & be wary rather than a "run for the hills" approach..

I have been honest with my DCs about H's behaviour - not brutally so, but they're not daft, they know what he's (usually!) like with them until his transformation into superdad last week so telling them that his high standards make me feel stressed and that he has said hurtful things to me without apologising is just validating what they already know of him.

I've said that he finds it difficult to live in a house with lots of other people because he likes things the way he likes them and that he'll be happier with his own space and being able to spend time with them without feeling stressed all the time.

I think its important that they know this

a) so that they have a proper and true account of what has happened (I'm no gaslighter!) and

b) so that they can be aware that when you treat people this way, they don't want you to be part of their life.

DS1 is 12 and already knows the value of a proper 'sorry' (not a half-hearted one, or a 'sorry IF' but a real apology FOR what you have said or done) and the younger ones know that if someone isn't making you happy you don't need to put up with it, which is a valuable life lesson for them all.

at the eternity ring!

DoingIt - those are very wise words. If you don't mind can I steal your reason for H's departure?

I know I am going to be shafted on the financial front (we never married). I'll be walking round Lidl's trying to scrape enough pennies for a tin of beans and he'll be luring the DC with expensive meals out and trips abroad.

I think children do know the truth at heart. My P has been superdad the past few months when he has been the worst to me - lifts to school everyday,bringing home treats,giving them money etc. Even so my DD2 said to me "you know mum that you have never done anything wrong" (made me want to cry)

Sorry, what he thinks is the law and what the law says are two different things.

You cannot claim what you gave as a gift. Twunt.

Jane . Keep in touch honey.

DoingIt you're absolutely right - it is easier in common sense child friendly language & my14 year old is still experiencing his demanding impossible behaviour so she sees his behaviour & could relate a lot of the info to him. But bizarrely since the older 2 have left home (only at Uni) he has been on a charm offensive which they seem to have fallen for - the 'superdad' but for grown up children; so accommodating, always agreeing with their point of view (regardless of saying the opposite previosly) bending over backwards to offer help & support. As was said before it can only last so long & I'm getting twisted enjoyment watching him put so much effort in when I know it's not genuine .

Thanks for the welcome AbitWobbly. Only realised recently by lurking on here about Narcissism. So thanks for your posts everyone
For years I worried P was about to have breakdowns and at crisis points almost suicidal (which of course he wanted me to think as it allowed him to get his way on house moves, businesses etc) while I sheparded the children and looked after his every need.

DoingIt - I think you said your H left quite easily. I don't think mine will - how did others oust the narc?