Living with a narcissist

[Abitwobblynow]

Is hard. Busy taking one day at a time whilst I work on myself and developing stability. He isn't horrible but he isn't available either.

Anyway, now that my eyes are opened, it is sad/interesting to see the mini-moments that announce his narcness, that I was so blind to before! If I see them, I can either set boundaries or self-soothe to stay calm.

Last weekend, he tells me he bought a Ferrari. *

So, phone rings (he is on a business trip). Telling me about his evening out with adoring female acolytes (he likes them best). I started telling him about two of our friends, who are having issues.

Silence, and then: well then. I must go.

I have come on so much. I used to be destroyed, now I feel vaguely sorry for him. It must be awful to be that empty.

*Don't worry. Whilst I did not cause him, cannot cure him and certainly can't control him, it went down on the list with all the other toys for misappropriation of marital assets when the time comes.

Wow Wobbly you really do have such a deep understanding of it all, but you still seem to be suffering at his hands everyday. I recognise my X in everything you have said (and in Unlikely's point about the eyes - no soul!) but now that I don't live with him anymore I can finally feel myself starting to blossom.

Its hard yes, I still cry when I think about the missed opportunities (driving along today with tears in my eyes as I contemplate the school holidays as a single mum for the first time) - but those were HIS opportunities, handed to him on a plate and he refused to take them.

I could not reach him, I couldn't change him and I couldn't accept him for what he was.

Now I have to learn to me me all over again, but that's still preferable to trying to figure him out and trying to be 'the me that would be good enough for him' (non-existent).

Even for you to be aware that his responses are not 'normal human' responses is so frustrating and yes, its so sad, but you will only start to let go of that sadness when he is, in the words of that song, "just somebody that you used to know". I find that helps a lot. For me detaching while still living with him was the most painful part.

Regarding that song: listen to the self-absorbtion of the lyrics!

She replies to his self pity: I think of all the times you screwed me over. Then you let me think it was things I'd done. I don't want to live that way... etc.

And he replies: with the same self pity!

Excellent song.

Doing you sound SO much better. Onwards and upwards, girl. Is he staying out of your life, not causing you any ££££ grief?

I am living on my own w my boys, and he is a daily non-comittal no information phone call. Whilst I arrange 2013 w no illusions. It's OK.

Good to hear it, Wobbly. Agree with you about that song, I was beginning to think I was all alone in my analysis!

what song?

Feel much better in general thanks Wobbly. Sorry I missed the line where you said that you are living miles away from him. How's that working out for you? (as if I need ask!)

I realised yesterday that I really don't miss mine at all, which shows how little he was actively involved in my life.

He phoned to speak to the DCs on Weds eve and I didn't even recognise his voice Suddenly the penny dropped and I felt a bit guilty for some reason.

I accidentally sent an email to a solicitor from my business email address (which H can and does access regularly) so kicking myself for that. Didn't say anything incriminating, but explained that he is trying to close down joint accounts/credit cards and that I feel in a vulnerable position and need advice.

He knows that my tax credits could still be several weeks away (presuming I actually get them!), that I am not earning much at the moment and he has also said we need to take money from the business account to tide us over until my tax credits come in, leaving the business account short to pay for my stock next month!

He has mentioned that he is using the emergency cash he split between us (only a few hundred quid) rather than 'draining' the join account (implying that I am) and says that we need to agree to an amount for him to pay into my new personal account so we can close down the joint one, basically trying to limit the amount of money I have access to.

Let's not let this great thread die!
Hello Wobbly and all, lots of good thoughts.

The STRENGTH required to deal with narcissism, sometimes I just cannot do.

My H is not bad enough to leave/I need to develop a life after years of SAHM so I can move on without being absolutely crushed on all levels.

His attitude is: although I did not chose to stop cheating, you caught me and now I have stopped, and can we just go back to how we were. Now I am feeling very unsafe, and it's all your fault.

No, we can't, you arse. You dug my heart out of my breast with a teaspoon, you took my children's safety away, you opened my eyes to how you are and how your family are, and how empty and uncaring you are. My depression is making sense, my living my life through you is making me sad/furious with myself, and I just must get some sort of life and equilibrium.

All of which he hates. And this is what I want to get to: that however hard I try to stay calm, I get sucked in to trying to get heard by him, and he triumphs.

It's hard to explain.
He is such a twat.
My friends didn't like him.
I was warned by a therapist not to marry him.

How could I have been so stupid? What is going to happen to me? Feeling very low.

Is there any way you could leave with your children. Or get him to leave?

Leaving is just a geographical thing Ma. I MUST get this. I MUST be able, for the first time in my life, to hold on to a sense of self and maintain boundaries (not get sucked in).
If I don't do this, I will remain vulnerable to all the issues I have always been vulnerable to, because I 1. put other people's needs before my own, 2. fail to assert myself in a calm way keeping a hold of self and always have.

And, divorce doesn't stop shit. I have to do my work and it has nothing to do with marital status. Our latest tiring thing is over insurance and adding DD. Him demanding me, to deal with stuff, and enhanced premiums his 'little bump' (how is a £5,500 claim I have just found out about a little bump?) caused.
The cause of which I have been asking him for 20 years (tailgating) not to do and he insists he doesn't do I am just a controlling undermining .
And it is the disconnect between HIS behaviour and the consequence he doesn't like, that is tiring. Because it is no use wishing or resenting anything. That is futile. THIS is the reality. But the need to stay calm, and interact with him, is tiring.

Do you get this? He is 8,000 miles away but I still have to interact. Sadly he got to me the other day, moaning about how isolated HE was, and how unfair HIS marriage had broken down... as though none of that had anything to do with him and 2. I am just a possession, an object in a possession, marriage.

And I reacted, which I am really upset about. Because 1. now he is in the driving seat, having proven how persecuting I am, and 2. I was so hoping I had a better sense of self.
It is sad just how narcissically defended he is, I was hoping in large part I was overreacting and he was really better than that emotionally. I have wasted my whole life.

So quite low at the moment. If I heard he had demised? sadly I think I would burst into hysterical crying laughter screaming 'thank God, thank God'.

Would it help to really disengage and detatch, practically and emotionally?

In my experience narcs are so vengeful. He is very clever at this behaviour where as people like us are not. So what ever you do, unless you really disengage will feel like he is getting his revenge on you or getting you back for something you may have said months ago.

Yes, he sounds like a deeply unpleasant, selfish, anti social and hard man.

Is he angry a lot? does he blame other people for the things that don't go to plan in his life? Does he seem unable to learn from his mistakes, but just blames others. Does he always see himself as the victim, and therefore is angry?

You cannot outwit him, by anything you say or do. So stop trying to. There in lies madness. His brain is probably hard wired completely differently form yours.

You can have a better sense of self, tell yourself you can. Out loud. But as a separate entity from him.

You cannot change him, so stop trying that as well. They do not have light bulb moments like you or I. They just carry on with old patterns of behaviour, because they know best.

You may be feeling low because of the situation that you are in. Take some deep breathes, breath out slowly pursing your lips. 4 or 5 times. And tell yourself out loud that you have integrity, you do have sound boundaries, you are a good person. Yes he is hardwired this way, but you are still you. And you know this to be true.

Is there a good friend in rl, who can make you laugh, can help you relax, that you can be in the company of soon? If so get out there and enjoy yourself, yourSELF!!!

You do know him so well. You are not being sucked in. You are just seeing him behave as he always does to get his own way. Stand your ground and do the thing that you know any reasonable person would do. Leave him to his own devises, and get on with enjoying the good things in your life, the things you love.

Do not be frightened or devastated. See it for what it is. Yes cry, nothing wrong in this. But just be annoyed. And then in a few days you won't even feel this. It will get easier. Talking to a good friend will help process your thoughts too.

Yes that is what I am practising. I have been doing so well, weeks if not months, so getting 'caught out' has been a blow.

Change is practise, so I must just pick myself up, learn from it and keep the distance between 'losing it' longer and longer until I am 100% calm.

He is not an unpleasant man, more a frightened little boy who has NO insight. And no, he will not learn and the selfishness is not normal. But I didn't cause this, and at the moment I am quite angry with myself that I chose it. I chose this unhappiness! Willingly fell for it! Which is why I can't get too upset with the OW, because he would have turned the full force of his ardent whatever onto her, and she would have been pulled in. I can't blame her for what I did too, she also got screwed!

I don't hope for anything, except discovering myself. So getting pulled back into the dynamic feels quite a 'fail' at the moment. Blaming him for everything is part of the dynamic I want to unlearn - I want to detach and stay 100% detached whatever he does. So it was quite a blow to feel fragile. When he plaintively told me he hadn't felt safe 'in my own home' [since discovery] - and I have stayed calm and non-reactive for months - why did I react! Rrrr! Red button alert...

Sending you positive vibes wobbly. And remember this feeling of failure will pass. Stay strong.

How are you feeling now Abitwobblynow?

Hi, thanks for your concern, I jus wish I was't so devastated by my betrayal, and the disillusionment etc.

But I am.

Hi all,

latest 'stretch' (me asserting my needs to a narcissist with no expectations of an outcome) is that he mentioned at the last minute as always that he was going to Chile on a business trip. There was also another infuriating suggestion that he go off with half the family on a holiday leaving me and other children out.

I have always wanted to go there, and so told him that I wanted to come, that I could meet up with some friends of friends.
That went down very well. Silence was the response (usual) whereas 'normal' people would say, 'that is lovely, etc'.

So now the pattern should go: he pretends that I never said anything, and I forget that I ever said anything, and nothing happens.

So today I reiterated in an email that I wanted to go, that I could sort myself out during the day and that I didn't expect his company in the evenings.

I am dancing a different dance here and there will be consequences.

It is not so much that I am scared, but that I am very sad (I have no expectations of going, it isn't about that).

Sad that it really is like this. Sad that I am having to learn in my 50s that I DO have a voice and I DO count and I DO occupy a space in this world. Sad that I have to make an conscious effort to overcome my training to fade away and be silent.

OMG wobbly, if you hate him so much, and find him so difficult, why don't you go at a different time, with all your family. And don't invite him. It sounds like you have plenty of money to be able to do this.

Let him go off on the business trip,with part of the family. And then organise your own trip!!!

If you live far away from him you must have got used to being without on on some level.

Hi guys
I've just joined mums net and was looking for 'narcistic grandparent' when this amazing thread popped up!
I've enjoyed reading over it and it just made me 1. Very happy that all this sh*t is now after 20 yrs, over for me and 2. Sad that I ever wasted so much time in angry/regret/revenge/victim etc mode
I've had lots of therapy and am doing very well NOW lol but I could have healed so much quicker looking back.
My boys are now 20 and 18 and I feel that I can now exhale but I should have got out of anger years ago because I achieved NOTHING. I only started to achieve when I, instead of venting (sometimes the same story to three or four people!) I started figuring out who I was, what I wanted, my values, what I liked, raising my self esteem etc.
The narcissistic father of my children (I used to call him 'MY' ex, like as if he belonged to me still lol) I now refer to him as the biological father of my child, anyway, we have no contact ever now. My child maintenance will end in Sep 2014 and I wont ever have to ever have anything to do with him again! Woohoo!
But I just wanted to say, try an concentrate on yourself, getting to know who you are and be happy to be on your own. I've started to read lots more, travel on my own and with the boys, even finding out what food I like (he even controlled the coffee I drank!) I am now enjoying my freedom. If I find a negative thought popping into my head I just say to myself 'off you go, not welcome here' and think of something positive about ME! Lol

Hi Chick, tell us more!

Can you talk about what happened in therapy and what you came to realise?

Growing awareness in that 20 years and what you did about it?

Would love to hear.

Hi abit wobbly!
What happened in therapy!?!?!? Well basically, I went to a psychotherapist; she couldn't help me (tried for years, poor girl!) went to a life coach (no use) read books etc. actually thinking about it now; all of those things did probably help a bit but I finally went to a hypnotherapist.
She did extensive peeling back work and unearth the problem with my mother and that basically I'd never had a 'mother' ie my mother was such a narsacist that she wasn't capable of being a parent and that we were feral children. Unfortunately for us we were very middle class, privately educated, nannies etc but had we not been well off, I believe that we would have been put into care.
Anyway after extensive hypno, one of the exercises Nikki did with me was the listening pod, where I could talk and my mother had to listen. I got to tell her tat I was hurt when she didn't look after me, when she left us alone sometimes for weekends with my cousin (10yrs older) and I was hurt when the nuns took me to the convent and washed my hair because it was so dirty and I didn't have clothes that fit and I was hurt when she went to the pub all the time with my father and that she was mean and spiteful and calculating and out me down and lastly I said "I was hurt when you put making money before me, you told lies, you took things tat didn't belong to you, I am a child you taught me that it was okay to steal"
So that was horrible, I nearly didn't go back and my friend roz begged me to.
The next week I went back was even more painful. I got to speak to ME with the answers I knew she would give and asked her "do you love me?" and she said "no, I've already today you, you were a mistake" and I said "will you always put looking good, what people think of you and money before me?" and she said "oh yes, I owe you nothing. You are not me. I am me and my wishes are the only thing that matter" (she said that very nicely) and I asked lots of other questions .........
All the answers were ........... You need to fend for yourself kind of answers and a bit like psychometric testing I asked her questions in a different way but the answer was always me me me me me.
I got the message. She wasn't capable of loving anybody, anybody except herself and was so nice about it; I no longer held it against her. I let go. Just let go.
I've now read extensively about narcissism and understand what she is.
Expecting her to behave like a parent would be ridiculous.
I've never looked back.

I have to add tho that I had to mourne her 'death' ie the mother I WANTED cause I was never going to get her.
My mother in law was like a mother to me tho and I just thanked the universe that she'd been sent to me. She was really lovely.
I suppose the realisation about my own mother who is like an acquaintance now (I can meet her at family do's and greet her like a distant frail old aunt) the realisation is that she is who she is. She is she and I am me!!!

Absolutely Celtic.

I also had the hair washing situation (my aunt). My hair was so filthy the water was brown. It had to be washed three times.

Also the mourning of the wishes and hopes (that one day my parents would see me). This acceptance IMO is very important, because it starts the detachment.

Just wish I could bottle it and sell it, especially to women married to narcissistic men! So painful to stand by and watch :(
Great to chat :)
Never been on a forum before!! Lol :)

Interesting psychotherapy insights, Celtic .

Don't know if it helps people, but my therapist thinks I was so attracted to my narc ex precisely because of how he was. Apparently, this was my subconscious way of trying to work thro narcissistic wound left by dm, but to do so on a more equal basis w possibility of 'healing' via sex. He thinks this was a good thing and enabled my subconscious to process some of the abuse..never seemed so till c recently - always thought of ex as my soulmate, the one tragically who got away. Am now mightily relived I never bred with him! I feel for you guys with narc partners, it's bloody hard, a trap from which it's so hard to escape.

Still thinking it all thro as v heavy but probably makes sense.