Living with a narcissist

[Abitwobblynow]

Is hard. Busy taking one day at a time whilst I work on myself and developing stability. He isn't horrible but he isn't available either.

Anyway, now that my eyes are opened, it is sad/interesting to see the mini-moments that announce his narcness, that I was so blind to before! If I see them, I can either set boundaries or self-soothe to stay calm.

Last weekend, he tells me he bought a Ferrari. *

So, phone rings (he is on a business trip). Telling me about his evening out with adoring female acolytes (he likes them best). I started telling him about two of our friends, who are having issues.

Silence, and then: well then. I must go.

I have come on so much. I used to be destroyed, now I feel vaguely sorry for him. It must be awful to be that empty.

*Don't worry. Whilst I did not cause him, cannot cure him and certainly can't control him, it went down on the list with all the other toys for misappropriation of marital assets when the time comes.

Read the thread, back where I was couple months ago when I first discovered the definition of a narcisist (ironically trying to find out what was wrong with me). He doesnt tick all the boxes but certainly some.. biggest red flags I see often are disproportinate anger when I disagree with him/ask him to consider my opinion, and he only seems to like the kids when they are compiant and lovely to him or when he can show them off in company.
Actually, hes a completly different person in public (more like the guy I met) and the biggest flirt (gets away with it cos hes camper than Gok). Hes a grumpy sod at home. Recently grudgingly admitted id looked nice at a recent party, but only after he heard others giving compliments (had critically compared me to my mother before we went out)! Ive been detaching since xmas eve when he priortised extra holiday spending money over kids new shoes :(

his default setting is to get what he wants when he wants it and damn anyone else :( pretty much admitted this to me once.

anyone else so afraid of being identified they nc every new thread? im only posting cos there are so many similar posts on mn that i could easily point to couple very similar ones and deny any are me (doesnt like that i lurk, would b furious if found i posted)

Yes, I used to worry that any identifying features would 'out' me, but these men are obviously all the same! I guess the bits about my DCs being off school ill etc may point me out to people who know me, but now that H has left I would be delighted for the rest of the world to know all about him, which is why I'm not so careful anymore.

The only thread where I've name changed recently was one about a certain sexual practice which the feminist board were discussing as porn-inspired and misogynistic. I defended it as a normal part of a 'loving' relationship, but now I'm even questioning that - was it a loving relationship or was that yet another way to dehumanise me?

Screwtop you've just described ex fuckwit exactly

He only wants the boys if they're being good, polite and respectful to him. He had ds1 when he was ill and brought him back as he'd been rude, he was ill! It was like he was bringing back a faulty washing machine to the manufacturer for me to fix before he had him again

Poor kids get monologues on how to behave constantly. He's always trying to teach them a lesson in life. Convetsations start with 'now let me tell you something you don't know'

The dc do impressions if him to me, I think it just helps them process that it's not normal to never have fun with their dad

This all sounds like utter masochism to me, as tbh, it did on your post a few weeks ago.

Surely it's infinitely better for your emotional wellbeing to leave, eventually find a decent man and start to learn the dynamics of a functional, loving relationship, rather than how to survive in a toxic one which clearly has no future.

Once I realised my ex was a narc, I wanted nothing more to do with him. DP is so vastly different, I can't describe how lovely it is to reset my boundaries in a safe, supported way. I hope your counsellor helps you move on through this and out into the sunshine.

Carly I think Wobbly does plan to make her move at some point, but it takes a lot to feel strong enough to be able to take the leap. Some of us leap first and then try to build ourselves up, I think Wobbly is finding her inner strength before she leaps. Am I right Wobbles?!

Oh an how did you meet your lovely new DP Carly?! I know its early days yet, but I know that once I'm settled and sorted I would love to have my faith in men restored by a kind and caring one, but petrified of dating again after nearly 15 years!

Porridge, regarding D, I had no idea about narcissism then, none whatsoever; but instinctively I knew that if I allowed my little girl to control what she had to hear, it would not be good for her. So I 'went after her' in that I confronted her and INSISTED she absorb the reprimand and reflect on her behaviour. So no matter how she disliked the boundaries, she got them (you WILL think about other people). I used to say to her 'either I am out to ruin your life, OR this is something you need to think about. Which one do you think it is? Are you going to run away, or are you going to be brave?

Carly you are right it is very painful. But we live huge amounts of time apart, and I struggle with my expectations, the children and splitting assets. I made promises I never thought were anything but for keeps and they didn't ask for twats as parents. I have been a lady wot lunches for a very long time and so need to build up training and a career. x

'start to learn the dynamics of a functional, loving relationship, rather than how to survive in a toxic one which clearly has no future'.

Regarding this: you are right, but if things stay unconscious, you are bound to repeat them. And my bad luck was to be born to two narcs, and therefore trained not to have thoughts and feelings of my own; then I am completely devastated to find that I CHOSE it again. And you can't just magically change a way of being simply because you want to. If I don't recognise [secretiveness, dismissal, selfishness, the void], name it for what it is whilst holding on to a sense of self, then I am not doing the work I NEED to do wherever I go. Distance and separation solve nothing, you know? I dimly remember trying to get my mother to see me, and standing up to her, I was around 5. I remember losing, being humiliated/beaten and sobbing so that it was the 'double heave'. My children have NEVER been so upset that they double heave.

So this inner child work that I am doing? I am about 5 years old. I am that unformed. This isn't him, this is me. If you don't heal and grow, you are condemned, like my choice of H absolutely proves, to repeat the past. These people attract us for a reason. How many caring, loving people have we all walked past?

Boy does it hurt like a bitch.

Dolly it is absolutely great that your children can do that.

Doing I found out about narcissism when my ic got fed up with me and told me that he, and H's ic had both diagnosed him. They agree that he is not a malignant narc, but a very hurt lost little boy. My ic did have hope that he would find his inner world, but after meeting him seems to have given that one up.

Doingit I am in same boat can't trust a man ever...it's nearly 10 years for me being seperated and only just having strength to have counselling! Last night a police helicopter not far from my house at 2am for hour I sat infront of CCTV for another hr after it left terrified!
I know I am lucky ds and I are alive! God if they ever decide to make up their minds to serve ex maintenance order as its been 6 months since ex spun a load of lies to why he should not pay...if ex hasn't already moved to another country again to stop paying by then and is served I know he will have a good attempt to murder me/us!

wobbly thanks. Thats a very insightful post. keep up the iner child work- for me that really worked. I know exactly what you mean by the double heave.

Yes thanks Wobbly for those posts. Close to the bone (s).

I am worried that my husband is a narc. I suffered from bad post natal depression with my now 4year old. I told him every day that i was desperately unhappy but somehow i never seemed to get heard. It was only after my second baby with him that i dragged myself to the doctors and got some AD's. I still get very depressed and he doesn't seem to hear me. It's like he has not got any empathy and he never validates how I feel....it's weird. the kids are his world and I am, well I feel, invisible. When I'm feeling ok everything is fine (i don't need his validation i guess) but when I'm low i just feel so overlooked. I think he is a bit abusive, I"m not sure. He confuses me. On my wedding day he ignored me because I was drinking too much (through nerves) and that's what happens when he is 'displeased' he ignores me. I think. But I"m not sure.. He is definitely controlling. He talks emotions but never really shows them (although he is very emotionally literate with the kids) Is it me? Please help :( My mum is dying, she won't be with us much longer, but still I don't seem to feel cared for. He will ask me how I am if he remembers, and makes the right noises. But he doesn't really seem to care :(

Fber, so sorry.
You'll find a lot of enlighting material on the threads and their links and a lot of helpful advice. You really are not on your own.

He ignored you on your wedding day?

Hi fber. So sorry about your mum. This is the time when people like your H show their true colours - when you need them most and a normal loving person would do anything to make you feel better, if only a hug and a shoulder to cry on, the narc dismisses you and makes you feel even worse

My H told me to cry more quietly the night my dad died in case I woke up DS . Even now when I cry I have trouble 'letting it out' and just judder silently as that's how I've always had to be with him.

I tried not to believe that stbxh was a narc, preferring to think it was Aspergers or some other inability to communicate with me, he was never able to show love to the DCs either, but now that he has moved out, all of a sudden he is showering them with love and attention, being the dad I always wished he could be, proving that he is more than capable - he just withheld it because I wasn't worthy of his time. I'm glad for the DCs, but it is now just me who's the victim of his emotional abuse (making me look even more unreasonable for splitting up our family, as apparently he is superdad). At least if your H is being loving towards your DCs you don't have to worry about what they have endured, which is a big burden to carry.

You know in your heart that this is not making you happy. If you've tried to talk to him about how you feel and it goes on the same way, if you've tried counselling (or don't imagine that he ever would) then you probably know what you need to do.

We all deserve so much better than this, we really do.

God how awful, what a bastard. Hope you're feeling a bit better now :(

fber - I don't think it's possible for anyone to say whether or not your H is a narc on the internet. We can tell you whether or not we think his behaviour is normal, odd or downright abusive/cruel. (So ignoring your wife on your wedding day is a cruel and abusive thing to do - and if I was a betting woman I'd say it generally didn't bode well for a marriage)

However, at the moment, I am more concerned about you than your husband. I found ADs extremely helpful for depression, but I really think you need to see a professional counsellor/psychologist too. You have a lot going on (and I'm so sorry about your Mum, sometimes waiting for a loved one to die is actually worse than when they do pass) and if you are not getting support at home, it's really important you get it somewhere or the depression will just worsen/continue. Do you have close friends or family members you can talk to?

Would you consider leaving him? I know nobody gets married to get divorced, but it you are allowed to leave a relationship that leaves you feeling empty and low.

Triffid: I loved your last post so much it has been printed out and is tucked in amongst my cards to be pulled out and re-read in a moment when I start going 'mental'!

"he never validates how I feel....it's weird. the kids are his world and I am, well I feel, invisible. When I'm feeling ok everything is fine ... but when I'm low i just feel so overlooked. I think he is a bit abusive, I"m not sure. He confuses me. ... when he is 'displeased' he ignores me. [I am sure and do know now] .. He is definitely controlling. He talks emotions but never really shows them (although he is very emotionally literate with the kids)"

This seems SUCH a template! I could have written this.

You are describing my H. And, gosh, I got depressed too. Now I see it for what it is, and work on not getting affected, but accepting that is the way he is. Feeling the true emotion (sorrow) whilst very painful, is somehow better than the 'deadness' of depression.

So sorry about your Mum. Talk to us, we will listen to you and let you know you are heard xxx

"The only thread where I've name changed recently was one about a certain sexual practice which the feminist board were discussing as porn-inspired and misogynistic. I defended it as a normal part of a 'loving' relationship, but now I'm even questioning that - was it a loving relationship or was that yet another way to dehumanise me?"

DoingItForMyself - I think there is some truth in that. Since how we relate sexually says something more about us and how we relate generally, does it not? I don't think they are totally separate and one will give you a clue about the other. I also have had the experience of doing something that seemed sortof OK, but when I looked back, I think it was part of his failure to treat me with real respect . If only I could go back and undo, because I think I was a bit used there.

The stupid thing is Jane, I even discussed it with H at the time and said that these 'crazy' feminists were all 'up in arms' about it, and didn't they realise that its not all about the woman 'enjoying it' as such, its about enjoying the pleasure it gives to someone you love.

I felt like he wasn't really listening to me at the time, and put it down to the fact that it was yet another sentence starting with "I was reading on Mumsnet today..." so he had zoned out.

I had kind of expected some kind of back-up, like "Of course I totally respect you darling and if you were at all uncomfortable with it I wouldn't do it. It should be about both of us having our needs met etc..." but he just mumbled something unintelligible (perhaps "oh no I've been rumbled as a narc" ?!?!) and wandered off.

Another mini-narc moment Wobbly!?

Dolly: ALL and ANY hijacks welcome. It really helps to know I am not alone in this. Not that I would wish it on anyone. But you know, the confusion makes you think: am I crazy?
So people 'hijacking' (no you aren't) just helps in that.

Doing somehow I missed that - so reeling back.

Hmmm... when he started escalating into acting out, I was asked to dress up. It was very specific, very upper class (rather tame really). I resisted, then complied, and found it quite exciting myself.

But did it fill the void? No. He was cheating within 2 years of that. But there is absolutely no way on this green planet, that he went elsewhere because he wasn't getting enough, in different variety. And now like you I wonder if I was objectified [probably, but it was so much fun I will forgive him that ]

Wobbly. I stopped following your thread a little while back, because I felt hopeless for you but also saw that you'd determined a way forward in your own mind, which you would/could/dare not share.

I've just seen your post from Wed 27-Jun-12 00:07. I've not read the rest. I am overjoyed, for you, that you've recognised the origin of the patterns in your life and your current state of emotional maturity (wrong word, but it will do for now).

I disagree that the dynamic of your relationship is "not his fault" but my disagreement is complicated and perhaps you're working towards your own development on this. I wouldn't want to interfere.

I do want to encourage you in respecting, protecting and nurturing your inner 5-year-old! I don't know whether you've realised yet that it's possible to 'grow yourself up' in later life, as people with sane parents grew up first time round. There will be unfilled gaps, and healthy ways to fill them; there will be extra knowledge granted by painful experience. And there will be a whole new sense of sureness in your self :)

It looks to me as if going through your process while still in your dysfunctional relationship will make things even harder for you - and more confusing for your children. But I know you don't welcome opinions on that! For now, then , have a friendly shoulder-squeeze. And a lovely, safe hug for your inner five-year-old :)