Absolutely LIVID at what Mother-in-Law has just said to me. What to do? please help.

[almosttoolividforwords]

I have name changed for this one.

I have 2 DC aged 6 (from previous relationship) and nearly 3. My marriage has been very up and down and if I'm honest I think we would be be out of the relationship had it not been for the DC.

MIL has been very interfering from the start but I have let it go, despite different friends and even my counselling lady (for trauma I had in past) having said that they are worried about how she acts. MIL has intimated on a couple of occasions outrageous things like -

5 years ago when me and H moved in together I overheard a conversation where she asked H if he really thought he should be moving in with someone who already has a child, that she "never thought he would" and was he really sure it was the right thing for him etc . And also telling him that he would "always have a home here you know that" . double .

Also once she expressed disbelief that I wanted to go back to work after my maternity leave (having no idea of our financial situation at all) and she said in a phonecall to me "Money means more to you than children" !

H does backshifts and I do days so he often brings the youngest to MIL's during the daytimes. Tonight I got the following text message from MIL when DC back home and in bed -

MIL "How is (dc1) and (dc2)?"

me - "fine. how was (dc1) today when at yours?"

MIL "fine but to be honest he didn't want to go home so that makes me concerned"

me - "what do you mean exactly by that statement?"

MIL - "what do you not understand what the word concerned means?"

MIL - "I'll put it in simple terms to you so you maybe can understand. little (eldest dc, nearly 7) is sick of doing house work that her mother should be doing, she is 6 not 16. and as for (youngest dc) you deal with the bonding before you leave it too late. and maybe cut down on your shouting in front of them"

WHAT IN THE NAME OF ?!!!!

I in no way force my eldest to do too much housework at all. She does age appropriate things like hang up socks, quick swish of her sibling's highchair with a baby wipe, "help" me clean out hoover by holding open the bag, tidy away toys etc. If anything, it was MIL who spoiled H and now he is a lazy sod!

As for the bonding thing, I have no idea what she is on about. Perhaps she is deranged. I had PND with my eldest but I didn't even know MIL then and I was terrified I'd get it a second time but didn't get it, but thankfully I never and have a lovely relationship with DC always cuddling and kissing him, maybe not so much publicly in front of her.

I do shout, but no more than most mothers I know!

All I can guess is that it is her way of trying to undermine my role as a mother. Because there really is no truth in what she says. H has a nasty habit of saying (nasty) things to me in arguments about my parenting but is generally more loyal and did stick up for me when she had her comment about me going back to work.

Does anyone have any advice on this? It has really quite scared and intimidated me. Should I cut down her contact by drastically cutting work hours (she does see them a lot) and not allow her to see them on weekends or anything if she is obviously just gathering "ammo" to use against me? I have been shaking with anger for ages over this. Phoned H at work and told him but he is busy and gave a curt "It's none of my business" response .
aaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrggggggghhhhhhh

I hope you are okay.

There are a lot of extreme reactions coming up here and I would say please don't take it all on. There will be a way through this.

There is no doubt your MIL is a bully. There are ways of handling that but you do need the support of your DH to manage it. Sounds like he is immature, but he may be willing to work on this? Should I Stay or Should I Go by Lundy Bancroft is a very useful book that would help you diagnose the particular issues your DH has and whether he would work on them. You should be able to order it from library for free. It has many strategies that would help you.

What do you want to achieve right now? I would be stating to your dh that her behaviour is disrespectful and you will not tolerate it. Repeat calmly until he has it through his head. Say 'it is your business' and demand that he deals with it. She is being very spiteful but tell yourself you can handle this :-)

If your DH is unyielding, suspend privileges (sleep on sofa etc). If you are afraid to tackle him, look at profile of abusive behaviours on Women's Aid website as fear of him may suggest he is abusive rather than just immature, and you will need to act accordingly, that is, safely leave the relationship.

Confide in trusted family members or friends X

OP you need to get legal advice asap. You also need to stop wearing your heart on your sleeve to your DH as he is very much in the palm of mummy's hand. He is NOT on your side - she will be seeing to that, and he will be feeding back to her what you are saying so for God's sake don't say any more about residency or SHE'LL be off to see a solicitor full of poisonous fake concern.

Seriously, don't fuck about here. Legal advice pronto. She sounds mental and he sounds pathetic. So sorry you're in this situation :( x

Just go get that legal advice rather than dwell on the worst case. Put your fears to rest.

You know what - they probably will be vile. You wouldn't want to get away from them if they weren't vile. And you know what else? You will be able to cope.

Staying put for another 15 years being ground down by this vile pair is NOT worth avoiding a one-off confrontation for. Especially when you consider what that one-off confrontation will gain you: that which is most important in life - your freedom, and your children's wellbeing.

When I got the benefits advice and also housing advice (we rent), I felt in a much stronger position for leaving because she had not said anything like this for a good long while.

Now I just feel right back to square one again. I'm really just scared of what this could kick off, and feel I should at least try my hardest to get myself into position of main carer as much as I can first.

I really would be out of there at the speed of light if not for this fear.

yes definitely get a good solicitor. I teach family law and been through all the shit myself but I can't give up to date legal advice.

She definitely wouldn't get full residence of DS and DD (it would never just be DS.. the courts do not split siblings). Obviously H has a case for shared residence and she is his carer. The courts do not care who does the care in a shared residence arrangement and if she's an established carer they can say that the 'status quo principle' means that it is in the best interests of the children to continue receiving said care. So you might end up in the weird situation of having to drop off your children to her on 'your' days etc just to ensure that the children get the same amount of time with her that they do now.

This sadly is what happened to me. Ex H is a big earner with no time at all to look after his kids.. but he paid a nanny from 8-7pm and for a long time I was too sick to challenge this, so the courts would never change the arrangement now. And the boys are used to it and wouldn't want it changed anyway so now I suck it up and will have to for the next 11 years.

The 2 days you are going to allow MiL to have them worry me. Are you sure you can stick this vile situation any longer? With a man who has no respect for you? And remember school holidays, she will still have them then which is the basis for a claim.

Btw she would not get a residence order on her own behalf. H would get shared residence claiming that he can provide care through her. It's incredible, but these are the glorious days of 'father's rights'.

and Angelico is EXACTLY right re talking to H about legal stuff and leaving: don't!!! (this was another of my massive mistakes which led to me losing residence). She sounds v calculating and may well get off to the solicitor herself post haste. So to that extent sucking up to H for now may be an idea. But for god's sake don't make it a long term strategy.

I'm really just scared of what this could kick off

That will be an excellent topic to tackle when you re-start your therapy.

It's ok to feel fear, by the way. But why should it have to hold you back?
So they'll be vile if you leave. And? They're vile people. They'll be vile to you for a lot longer in a lot more ways if you don't get out of there.

Sorry didn't read the latest post. I see you have made up your mind to end the relationship.

I understand your talk of fear about what this could kick off is a kind of non-specific paralyzing fear.

If your fears are specifically about residency for your children, do do do get legal advice asap. Better to know than to live in fear. Talk things through with a legal expert - run your 2 days plan by them. Prepare yourself legally and well as mentally for what you have to tackle. With knowledge and a plan in place, you WILL be able to get through this.

breaktime, so what you are saying is that they will look at who is providing the care and on how many days per week? and keep the status quo? So if I cut down to 2 days a week (financially cannot stop working altogether unless I divorced H and I have a feeling he'd refuse to leave the home so wouldn't be eligible for benefits until he did no doubt) and then I am the default main carer on the other 4/5 days (sometimes DS goes to hobby things with his dad, cannot stop that as DS would be really upset and more ammo but I could try to go along too then they could not be between them classed as "main carer" ?? and even less "main carer" when DS goes to school? This coupled with reducing any visits to MIL at weekends and the fact eldest is not 'theirs' biologically and is a close sibling to DS, would ensure there would be no possibility of them getting full residency?

If there could be some court order in place even for 'shared care/residency' then I would not mind, as long as I do not lose my son to MIL and her poisonous mind. Losing my relationship with him doesn't bear thinking about, as I'm sure if given enough time with him she would probably try to turn DS against me (if she feels righteous and justified enough to send those texts unprovoked) , and I've only just realised that today, I never thought before she could be capable of trying to influence the kids. Recently DS has been saying things like "You are not my mother, granny is my mother" "I don't want your house, I want Granny house" but I just laughed it off thinking that most almost 3's say that! MIL laughed it off as well. . . .

Thanks HOTDamn, that's correct - my fears are specifically and only about residency of children (or of MIL and H trying for full residency in the event of a split and effectively cutting me out of DS life if they succeed ).

It is paralyzing, I will get legal advice asap. Hopefully it will be decent as I've had spectacularly bad lawyers in the past. The thought of building up to get answers only to come out more confused makes me scared.

Look up family lawyers who offer free 30 mins advice and talk to a few or more. You're bound to think of more things to ask anyway, and it will give you a feel for who you might use in the event of divorce.

Expect some opposition/wracking up of poor behaviour from MIL as she feels her position usurped, but if she's foolish enough to text, then keep it as evidence.

And keep posting, there is such a wealth of advice, experience and support on MN.

Yikes at the stuff your DS is saying.

See more than one solicitor if you have to, to make sure you have one who can give you the best protection.

Thanks x

I wasn't sure of texts can be used as evidence? If so, hers are quite spectacularly cruel and totally unprovoked - that is clear from the exchange. I have some old ones too from H that I must have kept saved in some self-protection mechanism from a couple of years ago.

My Health Visitor has also known about the situation for quite some time also, after I was apprehensive and anxious about getting DS his vaccinations in case MIL reacted (surprise surprise both H and MIL don't agree with vaccines, they are starting to sound like a cult, but H didn't put up an objection, just made a couple of comments so I got them) and when she asked me it all came out - she has written down a few things also, it's likely been documented over a couple of years. I wonder if that would help.

Definitely phoning lawyers first thing, perhaps taking some sick days from work until I have a plan sorted, and going to try to get H to stay by stopping all talk of leaving and calmly walking away from any confrontation or arguments between us for the present time anyway.

You are all so brilliant at help on here. I used to have very very low self-belief and what she has said would have destroyed me a few years ago. Even though I've moved on in leaps and bounds, I still have residues of that low self beleif / esteem.

Just be careful she's not trying to establish (by text e.g. provable) the narrative that you haven't bonded with your youngest and treat the others badly. Because that might be what she wants to hold up in court.

Cut down to two days a week. Knock of any other visiting that you have control over. Once your youngest is in the 15 free hours (and not near her, you don't have to sign anything!) then she's not got them at all on a regular basis and you are the primary carer.

I would also try and talk to your DS about what is going on at granny's. If she's telling him to say things, then he might be confused about why granny is horrid about mummy (and who his mummy is) and you might need to spend some time talking to him about you love him, you're his mummy and you love him unconditionally. Try and find a thing for him and you to do as your special thing regularly (you mention he does a hobby with your DH - find something you can do).

I would also get to your DH. Cry. Tell him you don't understand how she could think this about you etc etc. You can pitch your moving into being primary carer again by saying that you don't think you had bonding problems, but if your MIL does that concerns you, so you are going to be spending more time with him and you've changed your days around to do it. This backs your MIL into a corner a bit, she's told you to "sort out your bonding", that is what you do. She cant start demanding more access or she'll overplay her hand. Move quickly, cut your hours down effective immediately so you're primary care giver and she's seeing them once a week for a few hours before she even realises what is happening.

If she is as evil as you think she is, you need to be quick, calm and resolute.

In response to the nasty 'too much housework / not bonded (!!!!) / shouting' text, I sent "How very dare you make insinuations about my parenting like that. They are outrageous in the extreme" so hopefully that will prove I'm not accepting what she is saying.

I will perhaps use that reason so she doesn't overplay her hand. I am irately angry at her, and also at H. He is now refusing to answer the phone, having said that "It's nothing to do with me, you are the one wanting to leave recently so don't talk to me about it, I'm not some kind of middle-man" .
I'm going to have to 'get to him' quickly I think, I think she may have chosen her time to get all her nastiness out in the open since H is staying there for a few days because of dog. It will be a struggle trying to keep the relationship together whilst I get things sorted and also trying to stop H from taking DS to MIL and to cut down the contact without arguments starting around it with H, if she pulling his strings or even worse they are in cahoots about this. I do not think now is the time to try leaving him though without trying to cut the contact and keep it that way for a period of time first. Right now he (or him + MIL if he takes him there, often does as she asks) have DS 4 full days a week and DD 1 or 2 of those days. That is too risky sounding a "status quo" to me, especially since 1 or 2 of the days (the ones I'll be dropping) I get in late-ish night at the moment.

I am going to cut down to 2 days immediate effect. Although that could perhaps screw up my job which I have worked really hard for, enjoy and has done my confidence no end of good, but at this point that is not the most important thing.

Can you talk to your boss and say you hope things won't be this way forever and you are really committed etc but at this point it is an absolute family necessity to cut down? It is a pity but you are in a tough spot right now. Clytaemnestra's advice above is good. Move quickly and you will catch them out. Atm your MIl sounds as if she thinks she has you on the run. She won't be expecting this.

Don't talk to your h about mil anymore. Talk to him about your relationship, making it work. Even say that your MIL has made you think and you need to prioritise your little family. Get doing things like family days out (without mil of course). Stop talking about her at all. This has the outside chance of you actually managing to rekindle the relationship with your h as well. If not, doesn't matter, you'll be primary caregiver by then.

Also, unless your dd has been adopted by your h, he's got no custody/visitation rights there, it is just your ds you have to worry about.

She has not been adopted by him no (thankfully or I may lose both my children ). I really hope that there is no chance they could legally push me out

What a horrible MIL and a bad situation for you OP.

I would find a child care provider near you, for the free 15 hours, so you can say that your child will be mixing with his future school-mates, and it is to prepare for infants school.

He says this is none of his business yet won't let you use a child minder? He can't pick and choose! Good luck with all this it sounds like a living nightmare.

I've read your whole thread and it sounds like your H and MIL are conspiring against you, hence his reservations at "getting involved" with you and MIL's disagreement.

I would suggest you limit the time your children are in MIL's company, on the grounds that you are not happy with the things they have been saying to you about preferring MIL's house to their own home. Your children are being groomed into MIL's way of thinking. Stop contact on the basis that MIL is a negative influence toward your children's home life, and intentionally driving a wedge between your bond with your own off spring. Tell her these are the reasons you are limiting her time with your children. Allow her to visit with them with you supervising all visits until you are comfortable that she is not poisoning your children against you. Be honest. Take control back. You are their mother. You are doing what is best for them. Your MIL is manipulative, but you already have evidence of this. So start shutting her down! They are your babies, so start getting protective. Snarl a little. Threaten to bite. And go for the jugular if you have to! Your MIL would have done that for her son son had their relationship been threatened. That's what mother's do. They protect their off spring. Protect yours.

You're not having an easy time, I know it's difficult, but ultimately the control is yours. The state does not easily separate mother and child.

I wish you well with this.

I read on here once that if you are even just thinking about divorcing your dh, then find out all the good local solicitors and all the ones that your dh might choose to use (around mil if she lives a little way away) and then go and visit them for your half hour of free advice. Then go and visit all the other local solicitors, leaving just a couple of bad ones.

Apparently this discussion with them is enough for you to count as 'their' client; which means that your dh will not be able to use them against you as it would be a conflict of interest.

Hopefully somebody else could confirm if this is the case as I have no legal knowledge, as I said it's just something that I've previouslyseen on here.

As well as all the other good advice you've had on here, I'd also start your own campaign of being uber nice to mil and very concerned about her - so next time she sends a nasty text etc, instead of reacting with anger to her (sound off on here or to friends etc instead), react with a 'what a strange thing to say. Are you feeling ok? I do worry about you imagining these things, it sounds like you're having problems coping! Etc' and set her up for starting signs of altzheimers or mental breakdown or just plain old unreasonableness and nastiness, as well as showing that you are not concerned about the texts. If she senses they are getting to you then she will just send more.

Definitely check out several nurseries local to you but check out the one she wants too. Then when confronted, you can be the reasonable one, but you can reject it on the grounds that the other nursery you have found is much more appropriate and better for your ds on lots of different criteria. Whereas if mil tries to show she is caring by having sorted out a nursey place, well that will backfire as she is only concerned about herself by choosing something convenient for her, she hasn't bothered to look for a nursery that would suit your ds by being one where he will meet potential schoolmates and local friends, that is good at xyz, has homecooked food etc (or whatever else can be sold as a benefit opposed to the nursery next to your mil).

I'd Try to visit when your mil isn't around and if the head is a friend of hers, ask her to respect your privacy by not mentioning your visit to mil. If she does there is another reason not to use that nursery - they have not respected your wishes as they spoke to mil so you couldn't have confidence that they would take your word over hers in the future.

Good luck - stay strong.

The way the family courts operate is that there really has to be extreme abuse for children to be taken from their mother against her will. Try not to be scared, don't go Stepford to try to get DH on your side. Just do what you know is to be right which is to tell him you don't want him to come home & that, like his ex, you can't put up with his abusive mother anymore. She has absolutely NO legal right to see DC2 & you can cut off contact quite legitimately. My ex MIL was similar & my solicitor sent her a warning letter saying the above & threatening legal action for harassment if she contacted me again. That shut her up. Sort out your work/childcare/benefits/tenancy tomorrow & get the ball rolling for an independent life. The 15 hours a week nursery vouchers will cover the 2 days a week in September & meanwhile take as much annual leave in school hols as poss & use cheap holiday clubs such as church subsidised ones. You are a good mum. Don't listen to that witch. DH can see them at set access time like other absent fathers, but I wouldn't allow her to.

Crikey! I have seldom read such a needlessly abysmal situation on here before!

Right well...you OP, are not short on smarts at all. You have convinced me. You appear to have a very good grip on the situation and I think you know this is utterly intolerable.

No-one expects you to put up with this crap. Make plans to extricate yourself from their malevolent relationship. This has made me shudder. How awful.