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Original poster

Divorcing Dad: Should the engagement ring be returned to me?

294 replies

Freshlygroundbeans · 25/05/2012 18:35

This is my first post on this website-

I have been married for almost 10months and am about to get a divorce. My partner is a solicitor and has drafted the Separation Agreement. The separation is by mutual agreement and will be uncontested.
The reasons for divorce are very complex. They relate to the children of a blended family and mental health issues. These issues were prevalent before we got married but became exacerbated after the wedding . There is a mutual feeling that we should never have got married.
Within the agreement she cites : ?The parties agree that she keep the engagement ring given to her by DH?. The ring is still being paid off and is a significant amount of money. Both parties will be undergoing financial strain when moving on. I will be leaving the home with my son and do not particularly want to be continuing making payments on an engagement ring !
I have asked her to return the ring whereby I will sell to retrieve the expense .My own reasons are that the ring is now meaningless and has no symbolic value. A sham. For my mind it would be an honourable gesture of her to return it to me.
Her response is that it is a gift. She even cites a law case stating that legally she is entitled to keep it .In this regard she may be correct. However, I think this is a ?moral issue? more than ?gift issue?. I intend to remain friends with her but I know my friendship will be determined by her attitude to this issue.
What are all your thoughts? What would you do?

OP posts:
CakeMeIAmYours · 25/05/2012 20:33

No, it isn't OP, if the loan is in your name, it is your debt and your responsibility.

Houseofplain · 25/05/2012 20:34

Cake the ring is financed. So it wasn't his to give, it's owned by the finance company until its paid off. So whether he gifted it or not it's irrelevant. It wasn't his to give.
It's still on hp, with payments still outstanding, that's how it is and always has been.

fuckarama · 25/05/2012 20:35

Sorry but legally the OP entered into the agreement with Natwest to pay off the ring.

Because of privity of contract, the ex cannot be bound by that agreement.

He gave the ring to her as a gift/in contemplation of marriage.

They got married.

She can keep the ring, legally.

The OP has to finish paying the money to Natwest.

CakeMeIAmYours · 25/05/2012 20:35

The taking out of the loan, and the purchase of the ring are 2 separate issues.

Unless the loan was secured on the ring (which is unlikely) and your partner signed the agreement and specifically undertook to give the ring back in the event of your default - you haven't got a leg to stand on.

I can't help but think she had a lucky escape!

CakeMeIAmYours · 25/05/2012 20:35

Ah x post fuckarama Smile

Houseofplain · 25/05/2012 20:38

Op if you need to pm me do so, these people are wrong. I think it's because they have a personal problem with you. They are trying to discredit those trying to help you. Been there done it got the t shirt. If the ring is on finance you should demand it back or she finishes the payments. You'll get it back :)

willyoustillloveme · 25/05/2012 20:39

Whoever keeps it should finish paying for it.

fuckarama · 25/05/2012 20:40

Good luck with getting the ring back.

Morally, I don't think she should keep it, but legally it's like paying for a car after you've had it written off, if you didn't get the full amount of the loan.

CotedePablo · 25/05/2012 20:47

Interesting thread. Where's the woman who wears the ring?

Mayisout · 25/05/2012 20:48

In my experience X keeps her ring.

Don't think the 'friendship' tack will carry any weight with her so you might as well forget it (and consider her an exfriend).

Is it insured, can it 'be lost' so you can claim?

r3dh3d · 25/05/2012 20:49

You married a lawyer. So as a household I'm assuming you weren't absolutely skint.

The engagement ring cost £1,500. The engagement must have gone on for a bit. The marriage must have lasted for a period, and is still extant.

So how have you not paid this off yet? If you had paid £80 per month, it would have been paid off in 2 years. And even if you are eg a student, shacked up with a lawyer you could afford to put some money away, enough to save £80 per month. But you haven't: you chose not to. And that (at least to an outsider) makes your commitment to the repayments - and the ring, and the engagement, and the marriage - look pretty shaky.

bookbird · 25/05/2012 21:00

Think it's £1500 left to pay R3. We don't know (and don't need to know) the original cost.

shattereddreams · 25/05/2012 21:05

Mayisout
Please don't encourage fraud!!!

Original poster
Freshlygroundbeans · 25/05/2012 21:07

Bookbird is correct on the £1500 left to pay.
r3 dh you are making far too may assuptions that bear no relevance to the question in hand.

OP posts:
r3dh3d · 25/05/2012 21:09

Still. The traditional approach is that the ring costs 1 month's salary, isn't it? I'm trying to get my head around the sort of person who will buy a ring for the price of one month's salary on hock and at the end of the engagement (and these are usually years rather than months) and the marriage (ditto) still has a significant sum to pay. This is not someone who has been busting a gut to pay it off because it's One Ring To Rule Them All And In The Darkness Bind Them. He's bickering about it now as if it was about as important as a HP agreement on a fridge and always was.

That's not pretty.

Dropdeadfred · 25/05/2012 21:19

I think it's hard to judge from a moral standpoint without knowing the real reasons for marriage breakdown ie who first suggested splitting up

ChooChooLaverne · 25/05/2012 21:20

Thing is it's all a bit daft really - you won't get any money back on the ring if you sell it - so seems like a bit of a nonsense to be so focused on wanting it back.

I'd be interested to know the background to the break up of the marriage and whose decision it was. I suspect it may have a bearing.

2rebecca · 25/05/2012 21:24

I think people who spend large amounts on jewellery are wasting their money anyway. I don't see why in these days of equality both parties shouldn't have got each other something of similar value. I didn't do engagement rings for either of my marriages.
Having said that it was a gift and the recipient in entitled to keep it. You shouldn't have bought a gift you couldn't afford. Her giving it back won't change having to pay for it.

HandMadeTail · 25/05/2012 21:24

Is it possible to dissociate your need for £1500 from her desire for the ring? Can some other clause be included in the settlement which ensures that you have sufficient money to restart your life, while e ring clause remains?

Or is it a point of principle?

cornflowers · 25/05/2012 21:24

Agree with dropdeadfred. I've no idea what the legal position is, but the circumstances of the break up would have a very big bearing on what the fairest solution morally might be. Without knowing the circumstances, it's almost impossible to comment.

Jux · 25/05/2012 21:32

I do think that if she wants to keep it she should take over the payments. If you have both agreed that a mistake was made and you should to have married in the first place, as you say, then it is hard to see how she can justify forcing you to continue paying for it.

Seek independent advice. Surely there's a conflict of interest going on here if she's drafting your papers. Grincheeky mare.

maleview70 · 25/05/2012 21:40

There is a lesson here for all men, Dont go into debt to buy an engagement ring!

Dozer · 25/05/2012 21:40

She should keep it, if you chose to buy a ring to give to her and take out a loan agreement it's her ring and your debt.

Morals are by-the-by, it's the law that matters.

Lueji · 25/05/2012 21:48

The advice as usual is ask a solicitor to advise you.

Could you consider the ring as part or marital assets and include its value as part of the financial agreement?

ItsNotUnusualToBe · 25/05/2012 23:23

There's a lesson here for all present givers! Don't go into debt fir a present you ask to be returned!