Divorcing Dad: Should the engagement ring be returned to me?

[Freshlygroundbeans]

This is my first post on this website-

I have been married for almost 10months and am about to get a divorce. My partner is a solicitor and has drafted the Separation Agreement. The separation is by mutual agreement and will be uncontested.
The reasons for divorce are very complex. They relate to the children of a blended family and mental health issues. These issues were prevalent before we got married but became exacerbated after the wedding . There is a mutual feeling that we should never have got married.
Within the agreement she cites : ?The parties agree that she keep the engagement ring given to her by DH?. The ring is still being paid off and is a significant amount of money. Both parties will be undergoing financial strain when moving on. I will be leaving the home with my son and do not particularly want to be continuing making payments on an engagement ring !
I have asked her to return the ring whereby I will sell to retrieve the expense .My own reasons are that the ring is now meaningless and has no symbolic value. A sham. For my mind it would be an honourable gesture of her to return it to me.
Her response is that it is a gift. She even cites a law case stating that legally she is entitled to keep it .In this regard she may be correct. However, I think this is a ?moral issue? more than ?gift issue?. I intend to remain friends with her but I know my friendship will be determined by her attitude to this issue.
What are all your thoughts? What would you do?

The joint account is overdrawn the bank will hold both parties named on the account liable. Bet freckled ends up repaying the debt off.

To be honest I'd look for a new place & leave before he drives you both further in debt.

I'd put money on the fact the he's decided to 'get wot he's owed' by running up the OD on your joint account and refusing to pay his share of the bills.
Time to freeze the Joint account and see a divorce lawyer I think. I know you are a legal eagle too Freckled, but an experienced divorce lawyer will have seen all this before and will be able to help you see your way clearly.

Bloody hell. What a thread.

OP
You are a wanker.

Freckled
Start a new thread asking for money/legal advice on this. MN is shit hot on stuff like this.

You are well shot of him.

I hope you're not contributing to 'his' credit card bill any more FL?

You were endeavouring to have an amicable separation. I don't think he is.

Your dd will be fine if you were to move to another area/school/home; summer term is half way through. You could go next week.

It is easy then to phone utility companies and tell them you no longer live there but he does. YOu don't have to tell them any more than his name. Take readings before you go and make sure the companies document them. Believe me, I've done it myself when leaving a shared house where all bills were in my name; all I had to do was tell them who was living there, the date I was leaving and the readings.

Take pcs of all bills etc and whatever statements of his you can get as well as of joint account, obviously. Go to CAB, if you won't go to a solicitor.

You might think that it behooves you to put up with this crap but it doesn't. You owe the miserable, dishonest shit nothing. You need to look after yourself and, more importantly, your dd.

Document everything, here or somewhere he definitely won't find it. Start another thread under a different name as I bet the shit's 'glancing' at this from time to time.

I've just found this thread and really feel for you freckled.
Did you live happily ever after?
I hope so ... Preferably with someone who values you and your feelings/opinions etc!

I think that if the ring was paid for then it should be hers to keep, as she marred you after all! But once you got married, your finances come together and the debt is a joint debt! So really the solution- both morally (and in fact legally) is that you should pay for half the remaining cost and she should pay the other half. That is why she has put it in the agreement- she wants to escape her joint liability. So you refuse and it gets split down the middle!
Sounds fair to me under the circumstances?

W.tf - only read first page.,! Post in haste and all that..,!

Once married, the ring is hers, regardless if you divorce.

Legally it seems she is entitled to keep the ring.

Morally it would be the right and decent thing to do to return it.

She obviously is not a decent person, the cost of this ring is a small price to pay for getting rid of someone like this from your life.

ZOMBIE THREAD

I can tell you that legally she's entitled to keep the ring...it's considered a gift and she isn't under any legal obligation to give it back.

Ethically speaking if I was her and you'd explained the situation to me (you were still making payments...you accept it was a gift but could she consider giving it back so you can clear the debt, etc).

That being said...if you'd been a dick in any way I'd totally keep the ring.

PS. I have a law degree so my legal understanding is pretty sound.

Also Judge Judy really isn't a source of legal information and she's American and they have totally different laws there!

.

Legally she can keep it but I think it's very trashy to do so.

In your position i would offer to sell the ring, pay off what's left and split the difference. It became a joint debt when you married anyways.

Oh, this is old!

I think people are commenting on here because it was linked in another thread.

Wonder how Fuckwit and Freckled are now?

"The engagement ring is a promise or contract to marry. If you split up before you married the engagement ring must be returned as the contract is broken. "

No, it depends who finished it.

An engagement ring is a gift which remains with the recipient regardless of what happens to the relationship.

Unless it was made clear to her at the time that the ring was a loan and remained with her only as long as the relationship survived.