Divorcing Dad: Should the engagement ring be returned to me?

[Freshlygroundbeans]

This is my first post on this website-

I have been married for almost 10months and am about to get a divorce. My partner is a solicitor and has drafted the Separation Agreement. The separation is by mutual agreement and will be uncontested.
The reasons for divorce are very complex. They relate to the children of a blended family and mental health issues. These issues were prevalent before we got married but became exacerbated after the wedding . There is a mutual feeling that we should never have got married.
Within the agreement she cites : ?The parties agree that she keep the engagement ring given to her by DH?. The ring is still being paid off and is a significant amount of money. Both parties will be undergoing financial strain when moving on. I will be leaving the home with my son and do not particularly want to be continuing making payments on an engagement ring !
I have asked her to return the ring whereby I will sell to retrieve the expense .My own reasons are that the ring is now meaningless and has no symbolic value. A sham. For my mind it would be an honourable gesture of her to return it to me.
Her response is that it is a gift. She even cites a law case stating that legally she is entitled to keep it .In this regard she may be correct. However, I think this is a ?moral issue? more than ?gift issue?. I intend to remain friends with her but I know my friendship will be determined by her attitude to this issue.
What are all your thoughts? What would you do?

I agree with everything nicnocjnr has said

Surely she shouldn't be handling the legal stuff for your divorce that sounds v dodgy. Tell her you aren't signing it and get an independent lawyer to draw up any legal documents or at the very least take her documents to your own lawyer.

FWIW I think she should return it or pay herself for the rest of it only because it's still to be paid for. If it wasn't costing you a bomb I'd say she should keep it if she wants it.

Not sure the friends thing is going to work tbh.

NicNocJnr : I agree with you sentiments .

I don't know about legally, but morally I think you're in the right.

Do agree with you having independent legal advice.

Had it been bought outright I would fall on the gift side. As you are still paying it off she shpuld make the remaining payments if she wants to keep it. You could argue that it isn't a gift as you haven't actually bought it yet!

Morally I can't uderstand why she would insist on keeping it knowing that puts you in financial difficulties. Is she seeking revenge for something? It seems an unpleasant thing to do.

Saintlyjimjams : I dont think she is seeking revenge . For me it appears that she has an exaggerated sense of entitlement . She doesn't seem to see my side .

but why did you buy a gift that you couldn't afford? is it really her issue that you decided to do so?

also i would say that expecting the return of a gift, given and received in good faith, is an indication of your feelings of entitlement.

Hmm well I would be as irritated as you freshly. And it's not a gift I would feel comfortable keeping.

Could you try the 'it's not a gift as it isn't paid for yet' argument?

Although I agree it might be hard to get any more than scrap prices for it. Ideally she should take over the remaining payments (that'swhat I would do if I wanted to keep it).

I think, really she ought to take over the payments.

Oikopolis : I bought her that specific ring becuse she 'fell in love' with it . I should say that initially she fell in love with a ring that I could afford online but when visiting the shop she didn't like it !! This ring was a third of the price of the one in question. I CAN/COULD afford to pay for it over the long run . It was given in good faith but the circumstances have changes .

Oikopolis, the OP says that she chose the ring- so that will be why he bought it I would think.

OP, you have to get independent legal advice here. If she is like this over the ring, I dread to think what else you may not have realised. Good luck.

Yes, she chose the ring.

A close friend of mine's dh left her.

I was sickened when he kept on at her to return her v expensive rock (approx £8k).

It was a gift. She didn't return it.

I agree this is different as you are still paying it off.

However - I'd like to hear all this from her point of view!

She may have a legal right to the ring but to want to keep it when she knows that the repayments would cause you financial hardship... - she doesn't really sound like a decent person that you want to continue a friendship with. I'd get your own solicitor and let the two of them argue it out.

not to be too argumentative here, but how is it the gift-receiver's fault that the giver made a bad financial decision?

she chose a ring she liked, told him she liked it
he agreed to pay for it, without being coerced
she received it in good faith
...then the marriage ends, and the giver cries poverty and demands the ring back?

is that not churlish? sorry to me that's bad form on the part of the giver.

Proudnscary : You might just hear her point of view! She is bit of a Mumsnet Junkie ! I am very aware that she will pick up on this thread .....

Oh really

What's your agenda then?

Oikopolis : Very simplistic !
.

Ok so you've posted this to shame her into giving you back the ring?

WTF?

Manipulative, much?

10 month marriage and you are still paying off the ring. Definitely she is taking the piss. Either she keeps it and pays it off herself or returns it. You would be better off if she paid for it herself as you may end up having to pay more for it through the paymants than you would on resale.

Im of the it was a gift thinking.

Also if you are still paying for it you probably outstretched yourself a bit there. Perhaps if you get engaged again buy one in your budget.

I can see why you don't want to still be paying for it though.

Troll or a fuckwit

(Yeah yeah deleted by Mumsnet...)

end of friendship I think!

Proudnscary : No agenda . Just honest point of view. I am happy for her to read the contents of this thread . I have nothing to hide . In fact , I might email her a direct link in a couple of hours.

Manipulative dick.