Divorcing Dad: Should the engagement ring be returned to me?

[Freshlygroundbeans]

This is my first post on this website-

I have been married for almost 10months and am about to get a divorce. My partner is a solicitor and has drafted the Separation Agreement. The separation is by mutual agreement and will be uncontested.
The reasons for divorce are very complex. They relate to the children of a blended family and mental health issues. These issues were prevalent before we got married but became exacerbated after the wedding . There is a mutual feeling that we should never have got married.
Within the agreement she cites : ?The parties agree that she keep the engagement ring given to her by DH?. The ring is still being paid off and is a significant amount of money. Both parties will be undergoing financial strain when moving on. I will be leaving the home with my son and do not particularly want to be continuing making payments on an engagement ring !
I have asked her to return the ring whereby I will sell to retrieve the expense .My own reasons are that the ring is now meaningless and has no symbolic value. A sham. For my mind it would be an honourable gesture of her to return it to me.
Her response is that it is a gift. She even cites a law case stating that legally she is entitled to keep it .In this regard she may be correct. However, I think this is a ?moral issue? more than ?gift issue?. I intend to remain friends with her but I know my friendship will be determined by her attitude to this issue.
What are all your thoughts? What would you do?

Why not just start a thread in chat that says "Oi, Doris, give me that ring back you cow!"

As that's what you clearly mean.

that's a bit rough Sassybeast...

Why did you buy (or rather not buy) a ring you couldn't afford?

Crikey. I agree very much with oikopolis and fuckarama.

Plenty of women posters here say they will print the thread or let their DP see it. In fact there's one on relationships at the moment.

Have never heard it called "manipulative" before.

Well if it was started purely as a PA attempt at manipulation that's one thing and we will know soon enough but if it is a case of garnering opinion then fair enough, why shouldn't a dad be on MN and using it like most of the other posters on relationships do (I'm not going to search his posting hx either). We only get their side of the story then too.

If OPs STBXW does see this thread and feels like she would like to offer her side of the story then also fair enough.
If the bare bones of it are the same then it makes no difference, if there is more to it then we'll know and revise appropriately.

OP wouldn't be the only person that has used weight of opinion to show another why they think they are behaving inappropriately.

It's manipulative to deliberately start the thread, knowing that she comes here, and with the intention of shoving it in her face.

Some "friendship" going forward you're going to have.

Especially if she sees this, as I and many others do, as a space where she is safe and can vent.

Do you know her username OP?

Start a thread saying 'I'm having an issue with my DH/DW/neighbours cat. i'm here to canvas opinion and will show her this thread.'

Don't be a manipulative dick and start a thread slating your ex knowing full well that he/she will read it because the forum you are posting on is a place they regularly use.

'deleted by Mumsnet'

FGB: How's that going to help you with all these different responses?

yes, it is simplistic, because the issue is quite simple IMO.

i would be extremely embarrassed to demand the return of a gift because i didn't
a) have the financial smarts to think through the implications of buying it on credit, or
b) the personal boundaries to say "no" when someone asked me to buy something for them i couldn't afford to buy outright.

i know that "everyone" buys engagement rings on credit these days, but i don't think that's enough of a reason to do so, and if i came a cropper for following the crowd, i would take that on as my own fault really.

BTW your partner is acting in an unethical manner by drafting her own separation agreement.

She really should recuse herself and should hand it to someone else.

I'd like to know exactly how much is left to pay off because it would impact my judgement. (I'm in 2 minds about it!).

On the one hand, it was a gift so it belongs to her I think legally she is correct.

On the other hand, I don't know why she would want it and if you are to remain friends (Why? There aren't any joint children are there?) then it isn't the way you treat a friend - knowing that they are paying something off that you are enjoying.

Why are you remaining friends?

Even if, from a moral perspective, she should give it back to you; from your perspective, you are not morally entitled to ask for it back. Because you gave it as a gift.

Legally you are not entitled to have it back.

It's a hard lesson to learn but you really shouldn't have bought a ring that you couldn't afford in the first place.

Finally tonight on a very special Mumsnet, we're going to hear both sides of the story.

Jerry Jerry Jerry.

I agreed with this; For me it appears that she has an exaggerated sense of entitlement . She doesn't seem to see my side . Unfortunately all the RL solicitors I have met do.

But to post this, knowing she will read it, you deserved each other.

I am only looking for an accurate opinion. I have tried to be very objective for what is an emotive issue. What I have gleaned from this forum tallies with my own thoughts on the issue.

Blueglue - they won't be friends when MrsDivorcingdad finds the thread

It's all bullshit - I am the OP's ex fiance.

Ok I'm not but this is all bullshit of one type or another, you mark my words.

OP is yanking our chains so don't be yanked.

If it means that much to her and nothing to you except resale value I would have thought letting her keep it would be the cheapest possible way to buy a civil future friendship.

Be the bigger party, stop being petty and let it go even if the cash would've been handy

She is being very unfair, the ring was given as a token of an engagement leading to a marriage, this has now ended, the fair, decent and moral thing to do would be to give the ring back and release you from the financial stress.

Good luck with getting her to do the decent thing

In English Law, the ring belongs to her - in the US its seen as a conditional gift, so if the wedding does not go ahead, it should be returned.

Since you actually got married, it would still belong to her anyway, English or US law.

Actually....in the words of a family law solicitor I know of. "if you are still paying for it then you will damn well get it back".

It's not technically hers or his to give if it's financed necessarily. So that maybe a mute point? I would certainly argue this and involve a solicitor yourself. She can't keep it as a gift when technically its not yours to give and you are still paying it off. That's cheeky as hell.

Houseofplain : Yep, its Natwest who own the ring !

House Nope - its a gift. Its OP's fault for giving her something that he hadn't finished paiyng off yet.

Also, I'm sorry but at 'mute' point

Precisely. So if she wants it she either keeps paying for it, or it gets handed back to the finance company.