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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Divorcing Dad: Should the engagement ring be returned to me?

294 replies

Freshlygroundbeans · 25/05/2012 18:35

This is my first post on this website-

I have been married for almost 10months and am about to get a divorce. My partner is a solicitor and has drafted the Separation Agreement. The separation is by mutual agreement and will be uncontested.
The reasons for divorce are very complex. They relate to the children of a blended family and mental health issues. These issues were prevalent before we got married but became exacerbated after the wedding . There is a mutual feeling that we should never have got married.
Within the agreement she cites : ?The parties agree that she keep the engagement ring given to her by DH?. The ring is still being paid off and is a significant amount of money. Both parties will be undergoing financial strain when moving on. I will be leaving the home with my son and do not particularly want to be continuing making payments on an engagement ring !
I have asked her to return the ring whereby I will sell to retrieve the expense .My own reasons are that the ring is now meaningless and has no symbolic value. A sham. For my mind it would be an honourable gesture of her to return it to me.
Her response is that it is a gift. She even cites a law case stating that legally she is entitled to keep it .In this regard she may be correct. However, I think this is a ?moral issue? more than ?gift issue?. I intend to remain friends with her but I know my friendship will be determined by her attitude to this issue.
What are all your thoughts? What would you do?

OP posts:
Willsmum79 · 27/05/2012 19:22

She has a point, i.e. been given as a gift, therefore she is entitled to keep it. What if it was a dress, shoes, a kitchen appliance; would you want them back too?
However I do think that seeing as the divorce is mutual and that there is agreement on other aspects of the divorce it would seem only fair and thoughtful that she would help him out with costs OR give it back to recoup the costs as the ring was expensive and he bought it with the understanding that the marriage would last a lot longer than the repayment!!! I asked my husband about this and he agreed with me that the ex SHOULD help out with costs. It's only moral. Having said that in a court of law, morals don't always apply!

I did ask DH if he would expect our engagement ring back and he said no. I then replied I would if it wasn't for our son because it is a family heirloom. the fact we have a son means whether we divorce or not,the engagement ring would be passed onto be givento his future wife WITH the understanding that it would be handed back if the marriage crumbled and there were no children as a result. Afterall, it IS a family heirloom.

Willsmum79 · 27/05/2012 19:28

OOPPPSIIEEE!

OP. You don't derserve it back. Quite frankly you were pathetically arrogant and irresponsible with money.

Sorry FreckledLeopard. Reading ten pages would have taken me all night. I read OP, answered his question as it would never occur to me that STBEXW would appear on thread with the other side.

fedupofnamechanging · 27/05/2012 20:09

Willsmum, would you want a ring that you had to return if you divorced, but didn't have dc? I would rather have something that was bought specifically for me and family heirlooms (jewellery)from dh's mum could be passed directly to my daughter. I wouldn't fancy having an engagement ring that was 'on loan'.

midwife99 · 27/05/2012 20:13

Saintlyjimjams read the whole thread!!

saintlyjimjams · 27/05/2012 20:20

Eh? I posted before any of the other stuff came out. I had read the entire thread when I posted. Confused

midwife99 · 27/05/2012 22:21

Sorry saintly - my flip messages thingy buggered up! Blush

Helltotheno · 27/05/2012 22:30

Take back all I said previously except the bit about engagement rings being a load of arse cos that's only imo but OP did you really think directing your Ex to this thread was going to garner sympathy for you?! Idiot...

yummybunny · 28/05/2012 02:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lemonstartree · 28/05/2012 07:01

yummybunny, i can assure you if you take your £13K ring into a second hand jewellery place you will be offerred about 10 % of its 'value'. An insurance valuation relates to the cost of replacement (eg if the ring is lost or stolen), not what you would get if you sold it.

juneau · 28/05/2012 07:33

I haven't read all the replies - ten pages is more than I have time for - but:

  1. Get your own solicitor - don't just sign something she's drawn up. She has a vested interest in getting what she wants.

  2. Tell her she's welcome to the ring, but that you won't be making any more payments for it.

OhNoMyFanjo · 28/05/2012 07:39

juneau and it shows, you should really read tge ends of tgread even if you don't read tge middle.

juneau · 28/05/2012 07:40

Ha - just saw page 5 of this thread. Sorry, but you're an arse.

OhNoMyFanjo · 28/05/2012 07:41
Grin
juneau · 28/05/2012 07:45

Just skip-read the 'marriage' thread. You're not just an arse - you're a total f*wit and she's well rid of you and your nasty money-grubbing family.

OhNoMyFanjo · 28/05/2012 07:56

Op is a y of this sinking in yet? Didn't think so.

FreckledLeopard · 28/05/2012 10:46

Doubt he'll come back to the thread - in his view, his opinion is totally justified. As is the decision to hold back £600 per month from the joint account that pays the bills as he's unilaterally decided that he won't put as much in each month, despite still living here and despite us still having the exact same outgoings as we've always done. Oh, aren't the next two months going to be such fun.

Jux · 28/05/2012 11:08

Can't you kick him out?

diddl · 28/05/2012 11:09

Certainly close the joint account!

Jux · 28/05/2012 11:10

Put a lock on the fridge, and only get stuff for you and dd. I assume you're not doing his washing or cooking for him?

Can you just find a place to rent for you and dd temporarily?

Jux · 28/05/2012 11:11

Stop paying into the joint account and when bills come pay half.

giraffe17 · 28/05/2012 12:57

op AND freckled

Freckled, I dont know if this is what you meant you think should be done, and I havent read the other thread because in some ways what he allowed his family to do isnt really relevant to what is the right thing for you to do.

But anyway, I would have thought that if high value personal effects are normally treated as part of the marital assets, then the simple thing to do is get ring valued, add it to marital assets, you would be entitled to half its value.

Tot up marital debts (could be tricky if some were pre-existing unless youve both agreed to disregard that - HOPEFUL), including outstanding ring costs, and split that.

So perhaps ring will have a value of £800, half of which would be £400 and half the debts are £1200. Therefore if you wish to keep the ring itself (and I think you have every right to do so since it is your property) you would need to offset the rings valuation against your share of the other assets/debts ie you take £1200 debt, add £400 since you want the ring, and keep £1600 debt plus ring.

Alternatively, you offset ring value against £400 of current value of stuff in the marital home that stbxh wants eg sofa/hifi etc

This is completely fair and if you are willing to do this then it is absolutely your choice whether you keep the ring of not.

clam · 28/05/2012 18:39

Erm, so he's given half the facts of the situation, missing out the fairly relevant part of the "ring debt" actually being his debt for other things, yet has taken the opinions given (in good faith) on here as being gospel? Those given once we were apprised of the actualities of the situation, he's ignoring?

Twat. You're well-rid freckled but I guess you already know that. Roll on July.

FreckledLeopard · 28/05/2012 19:07

End of July cannot come quick enough - hellish day with more crap lobbed at me. So fed up Sad

clam · 28/05/2012 19:14

Wine Thanks

clam · 28/05/2012 19:15

By the way, OP. We know you're still reading this: YOU'RE A TWAT!