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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

men who got to prostitutes

684 replies

jake42 · 21/05/2012 12:26

Hello .
ive been reading all the threads on here about guys who visit escorts/ prostitutes/ whores etc , and i know im probably going to be called all sorts of names as its mainly a womans site, but i thought id write and tell my tale.

42 year old male , married for some 15 years, adore my wife and child and my family life . i want to get old with her .
just after our marriage one evening after sex ,whilst cuddling in bed , she says ive been thinking, we dont have to do sex, we love each other , lets live together like a brother and sister ! WTF im thinking, whats bought this on, nothing i could say or do would change her mind, we had sex very infrequently after , mainly to try for a baby. once said baby was born , she obviously was tired most of the time and eventually moved into the spare room blaming tiredness and my snoring (i do snore, but not that bad) . that was around 10 years ago and is still there now. We may of had sex 6 or 7 times since, im never allowed the pleasure of oral sex either way ,sex is always at my request, but always with the feeling that she just wants me to come and finish.
i adore her and cant imagine life without her, but the thought of no sex or hardly any doesnt appeal to me at all.
so after being knocked back one time too many i visited a site where Escort girls advertised and agreed to meet one .
i have been discreetly seeing different ones for around 5 years, always take every precaution and making sure my wife does not catch anything.
im basically between a rock and a hard place, i need to have sex , my wife doesnt, we love each other , i dont want to leave her , she , i assume doesnt want us to split up . but i cant imagine life for another 30 yrs with out sexual contact. i kind of figure that paying for it off a prostitute is better than having an affair, which as i love my wife would be out of the question.
i would be glad if anyone out there could perhaps in someway give me some advice . oh and im not a woman hater , i adore female company more than male .

OP posts:
RetroMom · 25/05/2012 16:00

We're only as limited as we see we are limited. If woman are so limited how come no one told Oprah Winfrey that? And she's just one example of a woman who has as much, if not more than most men have.

It all depends on how YOU CHOOSE to view your world.

The west has come a far way from the old Patriachial ways, even if it does have a way still to go. I see the progress, you see it as limited. It's how you and me view our own reality.

Your view that woman who sleep around are being pilloried may be so, but they are being pilloried by OTHER WOMAN who read those trash mags in the first place, just like I've seen it being done by other woman on this very thread!

I see you've mentioned Julian Assange in your example of men, well that's a whole other debate that may have you shouting conspiracy theory at me if I voiced my view on him and those girls to you.

Prostitution may be a meat wrapped virigina, but night clubs and pubs are meat markets too. Are the men visiting these places all rapists too? Should we ban them and the easy girls who frequent them, just in case?

Also, I don't see why you feel men will treat you like a whore simply because you're a woman. People treat us in life according to how we conduct ourselves, has been my experience. The media has portrayed men as incompetent baffoons hardly capable of working out the settings on the washing machine on his own, but I don't buy into that.

Why do you buy into everything you read?

RetroMom · 25/05/2012 16:06

PS: You seem to be of the mindset that all men who want no strings sex are suddenly rapists. So in your view, do you believe if a man is not having loving sex he is thinking of raping?

runningforthebusinheels · 25/05/2012 16:21

Two people meeting in a night club wanting casual no strings sex is no comparison to prostitution or rape - can you really not see a difference?

RetroMom · 25/05/2012 16:23

No running I can't, because there is a conncection between the pub meets and paying for cash which I am not allowed to make on mumsnet because it is against the rules to talk about going out on a Friday night to get pissed and pull.

slug · 25/05/2012 16:23

No, men or women who want no strings sex are perfectly within their right to do so.

Men who pay change the goalpoasts.

And if you really really think the Patriarchy is a thing of the past and we are all equal now then I think you are being willfully blind.

RetroMom · 25/05/2012 16:24

...because there is an issue with drunk people and consent.

ItsNotUnusualToBe · 25/05/2012 16:25

"People treat us in life according to how we conduct ourselves, has been my experience"

Is this not victim blaming?

RetroMom · 25/05/2012 16:27

No slugs, I guess you're right. We're not equal. We don't yet have 50% of women working in boardrooms just yet. There is a whole other thread on that, it's under Kept Women

But beside the work front, where are we not equal?

RetroMom · 25/05/2012 16:28

Oh please ItsNotUnusual. How thinly do you want to split the hair so that the outcome is you have the longest piece?

runningforthebusinheels · 25/05/2012 16:29

Retro, do you mean the legal issue that if a woman is too drunk to consent? Well yes, a man takes a risk if he he has sex with a woman who is too drunk to consent - because that is rape. However, there are plenty of people who manage to go clubbing on a friday night, without getting too drunk to consent to sex. You sound very mixed up.

RetroMom · 25/05/2012 16:31

Ok. Here's another way to say what I'm not allowed to say. So many of you woman do not have a problem with a man taking a woman he's met on a dating site out, buying her dinner and then whisking her off to bed, as long as she consents. Yet let him meet her on the dating site and offer her the cash you would spend on the dinner instead and go straight off to bed, and is an outcry, even if she says yes?!

RetroMom · 25/05/2012 16:33

There we go running. I'm not saying what you're pushing at me, hoping I'm saying. I think that was you who did that yesterday too, wasn't it?

runningforthebusinheels · 25/05/2012 16:34

Btw I must have missed the MN rule that says you're not allowed to talk about going out on a friday night and getting pissed

It's the rape myths and the victim-blaming that are the problem. They're kind of contrary to the MN I Believe You 'Stop sexual violence against women' campaign.

RetroMom · 25/05/2012 16:35

Yes, like I said above, I suspect it was you who conveniently mistook me to be victim blaming yesterday too. I'm not!

runningforthebusinheels · 25/05/2012 16:40

Right, firstly I haven't reported any posts on this thread - but I agree with MN policies of deleted posts which are perpetuating rape myths and victim blaming. So there you are. What you wrote must have been pretty bad if MNHQ decided to delete it.

Secondly, Retro you sound very mixed up. There is a huge difference between two mutually consenting adults having casual sex - and sex as a financial transaction. Honestly, you saying 'give me the cash you would spend on dinner, then I'll sleep with you' is prostituting yourself. Meeting up with a person for casual sex because you want it - because you are attracted to someone and want sex is not.

RetroMom · 25/05/2012 16:47

I know the difference between what is prostitution and what is effectively a date. I'm just saying, I am in support of prostitution. It should be my right to decided whether I want to fuck someone for the kicks or the cash! It's not yet illegal to admit that much is it?

RetroMom · 25/05/2012 16:53

Yay! My DP is taking me to America the end of June! I'm so excited. He's gonna get extra special bonus sex when he gets home tonight!!!!

OMG!!!! Have I just prostituted myself?!!!!

slug · 25/05/2012 16:53

Hell no, of course we are not equal.

Until a woman can:
walk down the street without being harassed
Be paid the same as a man for doing the same job
Not be fired for getting pregnant
Not be called "shrill" when a man is called "assertive"
Can choose to undergo a legal medical procedure without the consent of two doctors
Have bodily autonomy
Is not judged primarily on looks rather than talent
Not be expected to dress in crippiling and restrictive clothing in order to be respectable
Speak in a meeting and have her voice heard
Be allowed to be a bishop
Be allowed to be a Pope
Be allowed to be an Iman
Not have to cover her hair
Not be restricted in where and when we walk
Not be blamed for men's aggression
Not be expected to do the bulk of the child rearing
Not to be expected to define her marital status in her title
Not be expected to subsume her identity into a man's should she choose to get married.
When sports teams are called the National Mens team and the National Womens team, not the National team and the National womens team
Not get called "love" and "darling" by people serving them when men are called "sir"
Not be portrayed in the media as dumb, silly or technically incompetent
Be promoted on merit, not just because they have a penis
Be recruited on merit
Be voted into public office on merit
Not be routinely left holding the baby when relationships go sour
Not be expected to take on the greater financial burden of childcare should the relationship break up
Not be guided into feminine and lower paid careers at school, university and by society

Then we might begin to think about being close to equality.

runningforthebusinheels · 25/05/2012 16:54

You seem to want to shock, retro, I sense your choice of language throughout this thread is designed to try and shock. It doesn't shock me that there are women that choose to sell sex.

What shocks me is the complete denial of the damage this choice does to other women - the few voices that say 'it's my choice to have sex for cash' make women's bodies a commodity for sale. Cause women to be trafficked and raped and abused. It's de-humanising.

SigmundFraude · 25/05/2012 17:02

Bizarre post slug. By and large a lot of women CAN have or do a lot of those things. Also, men are not exempt of a fair few of them either.

SigmundFraude · 25/05/2012 17:03
  • not exempt from
RetroMom · 25/05/2012 17:30

walk down the street without being harassed
I think this is true for men and women. My son's mate gets pick on when out at night simply because of his size. He's tall and built for a young guy like him and he's always getting into fights though he doesn't go out looking for them.

Be paid the same as a man for doing the same job
I admit, we're not quite there yet.

Not be fired for getting pregnant
I will have to have a look. It's been a long time since I was in that situation and went self employed instead, but I'm sure there are laws protecting us now from this?

Not be called "shrill" when a man is called "assertive"
You have the right to be assertive and to put him in his place when he calls you shrill.

Can choose to undergo a legal medical procedure without the consent of two doctors
Not something I've looked into. But from that sound bite I'd say, I'm thinking a second opinion is a good idea when cutting into me!

Have bodily autonomy
Another subject I need to look into

Is not judged primarily on looks rather than talent
Another one

Not be expected to dress in crippiling and restrictive clothing in order to be respectable
I've not found that.

Speak in a meeting and have her voice heard
Be assertive. Ask Xenia, she's on the Kept Woman thread. She seems to be heard in the boardroom and would like more women to join her there.

Be allowed to be a bishop
That's a religious issue, not a lawful one.

Be allowed to be a Pope
Same again

Be allowed to be an Iman
Same again

Not have to cover her hair
Same again

Not be restricted in where and when we walk
Restricted by religion or law?
Can you give me an example of that pertaining to the law?

Not be blamed for men's aggression
That's a self confidence and self worth issue, I think?

Not be expected to do the bulk of the child rearing
I had children because I wanted to raise a tribe of my own. I didn't expect I would have them and leave them to be raised by someone else. I wanted them. I also wanted their father to raise them with me, but I chose the wrong partner on that score. I wasn't forced into it though.

Not to be expected to define her marital status in her title
Men are defined by he. I hope you don't want to get rid of girl! I love being a girl!

Not be expected to subsume her identity into a man's should she choose to get married.
Oh you don't have to take his name. You can keep your own, or double barrel them if you want.

When sports teams are called the National Mens team and the National Womens team, not the National team and the National womens team
I'll go with that.

Not get called "love" and "darling" by people serving them when men are called "sir"
I'm going to snarl at the next essex auntie that calls my DP love! Those sweet old girls down the bakery are gonna get an earful from me!

Not be portrayed in the media as dumb, silly or technically incompetent
Be promoted on merit, not just because they have a penis

Are we talking about adverts that show us how incompetent men are around household appliances?

Be recruited on merit
I've not been recruited for a long time. Another one to look into.

Be voted into public office on merit
There are currently 145 female MPs.

Not be routinely left holding the baby when relationships go sour
Yes! My boys lived with me for 2 years after our split (he paid support). Then with their father for 4 years (I paid support) Then he remarried and kicked them out, so now they live with me. They don't see him, and I had to get support through the CSA for them. But truthfully, when my boys lived with their father I felt like shit. They lived with him because he manipulated me into believing I was a shit mother. I never wanted that situation. In hindsight I see, he needed the social security my children offered him. But that's a whole other debate and issue and not really equal rights.

Not be expected to take on the greater financial burden of childcare should the relationship break up
See above

Not be guided into feminine and lower paid careers at school, university and by society
I have boys. I didn't realise schools were doing that! My son's girlfriend, good old Essex council girl, is studying law and politics. She dropped out of college at 17 but went back at 21 so she has to pay for her own course. She works as a barmaid to do that. My DP's two daughters are aiming high too. I may just be in the wrong loop though?

On the side of boys - because that's what I have - I find there is no support or safety net for the vulnerable UK boys aged 18+. Vulnerable boys do not get looked after by the social like vulnerable girls do. Infact, an 18 year old immigrant boy is looked after better by the state than a 18 year old UK youth is.

runningforthebusinheels · 25/05/2012 17:40

I don't even know where to start with that retro! Are you serious?

The legal medical procedure is not a second opinion! It's referring to abortion - a legal procedure - yet requires 2 doctors sign off.

The religious ones are still exemplary of sexism within society - you can't just dismiss sexism because it's religious.

Marital status in her title - refers to Mr & Miss/Mrs, not he/she/girl (!!!)

145 female MPs out of 650 is NOT impressive.

I have sons too, and a daughter, and a husband, retro. Stop making it all so personally about you.

RetroMom · 25/05/2012 17:50

My, what a mighty big horse you have?!

With the abortion, are you saying the two doctors have to be men?

Religion is not law! Religion can't be foisted on me. I'm not religious. I pay it no mind. It has nothing to do with me. People in religion have that choice too!

Oh God, how sad are we getting when Mr&Mrs bothers us. Sorry, not me. I'm not with you on that.

That's a lot of females considering how many woman actually work compared to men, and how many woman actually want to be mps compared to men.

I just gave you my examples to show you my life is different to yours.

WineGoggles · 25/05/2012 17:53

But Slug, have you ever considered that charging men for the pleasure of interacting sexually with me, with no strings attached and on my terms, is empowering to me? I?ve always thought it was, and my attitude is that if men want to cheat or have non-committal sex why should the ladies be giving it away for free. I demand payment of some sort whenever I have sex these days, so only have sex in exchange for a loving relationship or cash, because I value myself more highly than I did in my youth when I?d give it away for free (even though it was fun at the time). I always thought the ethos behind feminism was having the same choices and equal rights as men, so although you may not agree with me I vehemently defend my right to do what I wish with my own body. As I?ve mentioned already, the biggest source of anxiety regarding my job came from Harriet Harmon, who considered all ladies in prostitution were victims that needed saving from evil punters. She was the minister for women yet only supported those women she agreed with and was unwilling to listen to any who didn?t conform to her ideas.

any woman who chooses to sleep with whomever they like, whenever they like and as many times as they like are pilloried
Yes, by other women!

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