to think dh should not have called me this on my birthday

[seenitallbefore2012]

"actually you are an ungrateful foul cow...."

because I said I didn't want chocolates.. yes I know that sounds awful but last week I had a very high cholesterol check and am panicking... I asked him not to get me chocolates this year for that reason... and apparently that is the [only] thing he got and I said I couldn't understand why he did as I was off anything like that.

Not sure what you want people to say really. It's all been said already.

You need to leave this man. If you don't, things will continue on in this way for the rest of your life. That's it really.

Did you expect a miraculous change to have occured? What are you waiting for?

yes I get that.
As I say I took no action. That is my confession. I spoke to him but that's all.I tried to smooth it over with the dc.

After that day on my birthday, nothing more was said after me saying I found the behavior unacceptable and my birthday was ruined.

It flares up like a flash and then it goes away.

Maybe I am a moral coward or indecisive.

Maybe as dd seems to side with dh I think I have got it wrong and am too sensitive.

Maybe I prefer to be here with ds and smooth things over than not be there when ds would be with dh when we separated. But they seem to get on ok when I am at work.

I think maybe its too late.

The problem is that you are judging your DCs actions on their behaviour in an unhealthy situation. They are behaving the way that they do because they are under the influence of their horrible father and are trying to please him by copying him. You're caught in a vicious cycle:

DH behaves badly -> DC behave badly -> You think you must be wrong and so stay, allowing your DH to behave badly, etc, etc.

Unless you act to stop the cycle and remove yourselves from under his influence, nothing will change. The first step has to come from you.

Too late for what?

well the few friends I have told about dh being negative towards me or difficult have not really commented on whether they agree.. because he is always nice to everyone else.
So I have no definite objective viewpoint about it.
he doesn't have many friends but everyone at work thinks he is great and he has been nominated for awards etc
I am quite proper and don't like confrontation etc so it could be I just hate the arguing and disagreement that is part of family life, that others would laugh off.

But if that isn't the case then obviously I should have left long ago and it's almost too late as we have been married 23 years.

"when I chose to recommit to our relationship I did just that" - how did you do that, reconciler? Did you move on and put it behind you, did you and he discuss things, how did you do it?

Becuase my H has decided that I am doing the abusive screaming and shouting that you describe (and I did, heard that it was abusive and stopped. I do NOT do this any more). The way I experience it, he reserves the right to his secrets and no requirement to examine himself, and I am required to just move on and be the same person I always was.

I wonder how you and your H got past this one.

Sorry to hijack Seen and Scuzy - I know that if your H's do not scream at others the way they scream at you, then they have demonstrated that they HAVE got self-control and they are CHOOSING to target you. Which is abusive.

just posted a long comment and it got lost in mumsnet downtime

basically I feel stuck

We have been together for 25 yrs now and I find it hard to unravel all photos belongings etc.

I feel the effect of divorce[and judging from stories in the behaviour section]on ds will be worse than the effect if I can sort out a more positive atmosphere in the house?

I feel some of this is my fault as I don't love him anymore [ ?at all] and harbour resentment over the way he has treated me... but confusing ly he thinks I am to blame as I don't want a relationship anymore..I told him before I want a divorce and he just hears me and then carries on the same as if I haven't said anything.

Hi seenitall

Just read your thread from the beginning. IMHO you should leave your husband. This man adds no joy to your life.

You cannot control the behaviour of others. You just can't. You can create an atmosphere conducive to good behaviour but that's all. However hard you try to do this, your husband will undermine you anyway, so I don't think you'll be successful.

It might be that the kids take his side because if they stick up for you, you end up taking his side as it's easier and they end up on the side in the 'wrong'. This happened to me at home, I'm sure I ended up taking dad's side over mum's. I don't take either side now however awful he is because I'm wasting my time and emotional energy.

I'm sorry, you can stay and always be in the wrong, always put his needs first, never grumble, never complain or you can leave and be who you want to be. Loads of children are brought up by divorced parents. Lots of people I know were. They don't seem any more or less different than the children of parents who stayed married. Best of luck :)

Thank you handbag, I need to have that input from outside.. obviously I am only presenting my own side but I do try to be fair.

I don't take dh side, but I think the reason the younger dc take his side is because he is not being funny with them, only me, and secondly because if they don't agree he might start being funny with them ?

I wish MN had been here 18 yrs ago as I very nearly left and went to my parents then, i was v close.

Now I have no family except my sil and we moved away from my close friends and I don't often see them anymore, and I can't discuss this at work.

I felt in a bit of a panic earlie becos I thought... if this is right and it is better for the dc to leave after all, then I should have left long ago and now its too late.

But thinking about it more, it's the future I have to consider... yes I will be poor as I have no pension etc as I was a sahm for many yrs but every birthday and special day will be my own. When my eldest ds visits, we can chat and do as we please and then he can go and see his dad.. and there will be no conflict.

I still worried about the youngest tho who appears to idolise his dad.

Hi seenitall

Everyone agrees with my dad. I thought when I was younger it was because he was always right. But now I see people are scared of him so agree for an easy life. It's no way to grow up really.

It doesn't matter that we can only hear your side. If you're not happy, you're not happy. It doesn't matter if it's not all 100% one person to blame. You deserve to be happy.

I hear that you're scared and worrying about the future. I suppose if you look at where you are now, it's going to be like this or worse for the rest of your life. I think you are also coming round to the idea that being divorced from this sorry sod is an infinitely more appealing prospect!

I suppose we just don't get on, don't have the same approach to child rearing and both want to do things our own way.. I was an ext bfeeder was into attachment parenting before I knew the term and he is into boys not wearing pink and not crying etc

The stuff in the house is largely his as he obviously has superior taste...so that s good as I don't want half the stuff anyway

If I do go forward with divorce it would mean I will see ds less and him me, which worries me and a lot of money put into the house will be lost I don't think we can afford to move so I don't know how that will pan out.

But I can look into it.

For my own emotional well being it will be better.

I think i would move to town[we live in the middle of nowhere].

I am nearly 50 hence my comment its a bit late.. don't want a new partner, just feel tired .

Not sure if I would stay here or move town...ds will be moving up to secondary in 12 mos so I could move in the next yr ready.

My suspicion is that he wants to stay with me despite me asking for divorce simply for what he would lose..time with ds and possibly the house, and having to tell everyone.

I can't bring myself to have the chat with him AGAIN

If you're married I think assets are divided down the middle. If you're primary carer I believe you can stay in the house until the youngest is 18. You need to see a solicitor and find out your rights as I might not be accurate there as its just things I've read!

50 is no age these days! You probably feel so tired because you have put up with so much unhappiness for a long time. You don't have to find a new partner if you don't want. You can do whatever you like :)

Having another the chat implies that it is a discussion. You need to decide if he changed x, y and z would you still stay with him or is it too late and you want to divorce whatever? If you do think you can give him another chance (I'm not advocating you do or don't) then decide what it is you want to change, what you want him to do about it and how long you are willing to wait for the change to happen and become permanent. You can then reassess.

He has everything he wants. He's quite happy. He has his wife scurrying around trying to make him happy, his kids siding with him in order to make him happy and he gets to rule the roost and do as he pleases. But it doesn't matter if it makes him happy if it makes you sad. You are worth just as much and deserve to be happy in life too.

Seenitall You're 50. You could live to be 90. Do you want to spend the next 40 years of your life like this? I know it's scary, but really you need to move out. You could rent a small place in town until you're sure that's where you want to live.

You could be happy, but you need to be strong. It won't be easy, but it will be so worth it.

If it were just doing things his way that's not great but livable with

the more serious problem is the lack of emotional and practical support for me,the creating of problems out of the blue, the inability of him to cooperate, the insistence he is right and shouting me down

but worst of all is the contempt and insults in front of the children if things get tough or don't go his way

The reason all this has continued is not because I can't confront him at all or am lazy,or don't care , but because he is ok for some weeks then will kick off if I challenge or don't agree with him [as on my birthday ]and he then reacts in a spectacularly unpleasant way, I then feel very upset for a few days while he seems quite happy. This is totally unacceptable and I am not sure he can change this... and even if he didn't say it out loud if he tried to control himself, I would know he is still thinking it, demeaning comments about me showing what a bully he really is.

Yes I know.I need to be strong now. I would never have married him had he shown any of these traits before marriage. I had slight doubts but nothing definite.

Once married with shared property etc it has been a big thing to exit the marriage and the current behaviour has only been there the last few years altho he has been angry and intolerant in the past.

Part of the trouble has been other people apparently thinking well of him and him being a public figure in a public sector job. His family seem to think well of him, and we don't have any friends as a couple, for me to ask them if they think he puts me down etc ...only I have my own friends.

I think he has positive traits but he is a bully when allowed to get away with it.

He insisted on living far away from my own family who have now mainly died and now we live quite far from my friends

If it's not too late I might suggest some relationship counselling. It sounds like he needs to air as much as you and makes these horrible comments at 'pressure points' in an attempt to get some of what he feels off his chest.

When I first read your posts it sounded like he might be physically repulsed by you - although if so I have no idea why he would buy chocolates - the use of the word 'foul' and the dig about eating lots of cake.

Has he ever been precious about your body image? If you work does he or could he be having an affair - comparing you to some other person? I find things confusing though given he's ignored your suggestion of divorce - at the moment though it sounds like he's priming the children to like him more in case it goes that way.

I really hope it works out for you and Happy Birthday for yesterday

Sorry you hadn't posted about his work when I was writing.

The only other thing to consider is whether he's OK at work - I know a lot of men who, when feeling they are being belittled or insulted (in whatever manner) at work, pass this on to their families in order to regain control and a feeling of self-respect.

Perhaps he's getting worse because he can? The longer you live away from your support network the less opportunity you have to access support to back you up or see things from your side.

I teach. I imagine I'm thought of well at work and in the community. Those people don't have a clue what I'm like at home :)

I disagree with emma sorry. If he's having problems at work it doesn't give him the right to be horrible at home. You don't have to cast around for reasons why your h might not be very nice if you don't want. I don't see the shame in saying I'm not happy, I want to move on.

emma
he is apparently well thought of at work.he doesn't behave like that at work. They don't know what he is really like. I mention his work persona only in that it has taken longer to be sure I am seeing the real him and not his response to me than it would have if for eg he were working from home.

I don't think he is physically repulsed by me,Rejected yes.Repulsed no.
He airs plenty of stuff already most of it is down to him wanting to blame me for whatever goes slightly wrong.

Emma, thanks for your reply but I think you are on the wrong track completely because he doesn't want to be understood by me he wants to be in charge of me and use me as his scapegoat. It's just taken me so long to see it because I have never met anyone else like this and I like to believe the best in people.

But your reply shows why I have had doubts and why I haven't hoofed him out before.. because it is the "other" point of view.

read that back and realised it just makes me angry to give dh any more chances and how he appears so plausible

did not mean to sound curt emma, just he has had so many chances and at the very least this man has been a dreadful companion and made me miserable with his games

No worries - sorry if I offended. I never really said that I thought he was out of order did I? I do though; just trying to suggest things. Divorce is upsetting - I wasn't trying to imply you should be giving him more chances, just trying to see if it could be avoided for all sakes.

BTW I never said being badly treated at work excuses passing it on to your family... just that it might explain it. But not applicable here in any case.

That's fine Emma thanks for your help.. I am still not sure what to do.. if I could wave a magic wand and separate without any trouble.I would, but that won't happen and it is too easy to just leave the status quo.. until the next episode I suppose

so tonight I went into the lounge and sat down.
Its upstairs and I made a rule many many times not to eat in there as I we don't have time to clean during the week

Dh was eating a burger in a bun.. that is not the issue
the issue is that ds, for some reason put his hand up and said"dad is eating in the lounge" to me,twice
I actually didn't hear what he said at first but did then hear dh say

"What are you saying that for you irritating little twit?"

I realised dh was talking to ds and told him not to call him names to which he replied "So why is he creeping to you, like a baby, as if I can't do what I want in my own house"

Of course dh can eat where he wants but if I make a rule I follow it myself so its fair... but that's not the point it's the way he spoke to ds

Is that normal?

NO NO NO!!! Sorry for screaming but I can't bear your situation.

So, you're 50 (I'm 53 and a lone parent. And happy). When somebody upthread mentioned you could live til 90, I'm sorry OP, I imagined you on your deathbed having terrible regrets

Then I imagined a more likely scenario. This man getting older and relying on you to care from him and becoming more and more grumpy and blamey and bullying while you're thinking well I can't leave him now, I've left it too late...