To think DH should be able to control his temper and not smack DCs when he is angry?

[xeno]

I know I'm not perfect. I spent several years with severe PND so bad I felt DCs shouldn't be left alone in my company. Gradually I have climbed out of my hole and had them for longer periods by myself and am now taking on much more housework and childcare and beginning to be a proper SAHM. Unfortunately I also have fatigue and pain which I am battling to overcome and currently I have some "normal" weeks but am still incapacitated some of the time. We still have a child carer three days a week and a cleaning lady and help from parents&MIL.

But all this has taken its toll on DH. TBH it would help if my parents didn't come round (whole other story) because they are stressy so I am trying to get up in mornings (my worst time) so DH not alone with DCs at breakfast/school run. But I do play my part during day with DC2, after school, cooking meals, evenings, bedtime routine, housework, organising paperwork, banking, etc. and we both do childcare at weekends. but when I am ill I do have to go to bed. Usually for a few days during which the entire house gets trashed.. I have learned to control my temper and now deal (IMO) very calmly with tantrums and stressful situations and keep my temper.

But When DH is angry (most of the time) he smacks DCs for being annoying, or really minor naughtiness. I think he is out of order. He thinks it is because he is under so much pressure. I try to take pressure off him by looking after DCs so he can have a few hours to do his own thing by himself, and he then tells his DM that he has "done everything" and is very stressed and tired because he "hasn't had any rest". I am pissed off that even though I have been getting better and have been much better for last 5 months (apart from physical illness) he seems to be getting worse. Sorry this has turned into a huge rant!

Time out is a good way of calming both parents and children.

That should be the fall back method, not hitting.

Counting to 3 is also quite good as is getting down to their level or picking them up on lap to have a chat.
I think it's quite hard to get sufficiently angry if we do those things. And it's harder to hit too.

Try to have a conversation not accusing him, but reflecting on the family dynamics.
It may need a few chats and maybe you should get an arranged signal for when behaviour happens.

If it continues to happen, if he keeps being defensive and minimising it, then you may need to put the foot down and consider kicking him out if he ever hits a DC again.

I haven't read all the updates on this thread, but I am quite shocked by some of the more recent posts. I don't think there is anything remotely constructive about going on about the mistakes that xeno has made in the past (which she cannot change) or how unacceptable her DH's behaviour currently is (which she already knows).

She recognises that her family is in crisis and has asked for help and advice. Please can we try to stick to providing that, rather than dissecting the problems in her family? It doesn't help anyone, it's not constructive, and it may serve only to discourage desperate people from posting here to ask for help.

Xeno, it is absolutely fantastic that you have decided to confide in your GP. Perhaps your DH will be angry about it, as you fear - but perhaps, after thinking it over, it will make clear to him just how serious things have become. It's true that his behaviour is unacceptable and damaging, but I don't think he sounds like a monster. He sounds like he is working very hard to keep his family going, and suffering for it. It also sounds like he might be depressed (not that I'm an expert), in which case you will be throwing him a lifeline by getting the GP involved. Better that he gets the help he needs than ends up in court for (God forbid) losing control and injuring one of the DCs one day.

You've received a lot of very unconstructive criticism here, and a lot of unfair comments - and yet you've remained calm and reasonable throughout your posts. You haven't become defensive or angry, or abandoned the thread. I think you're probably a lot stronger than you think.

Good luck xx

OP please think very carefully before you confide in your GP
You will be on record for your past mental illness and inability to cope with the children and the fact that you are still receiving help with childcare because of this. But as far as the authorities knew your DH was strong and there to support the family.If you now say he is collapsing ubnder the pressure smacking the children and always angry, I would have thought they would have (IMO) genuine concerns about the wellbeing of your kids.
Can you not get the grandparents to help more? Does your DH like sport? exercise is a graet stress-buster.

Xeno,

No one seems to have asked the sensible questions. How often is your husband hitting your children and how hard?

If he is causing serious pain and distress and it is happening frequently, then you have a real problem that needs urgently dealing with. If the smacking is occasional and more to get their attention and is borne out of frustration, I would cut him some slack. It sounds as if he is doing most of the parenting and working 30+ hours per week. So, he is tired and frustrated and probably, reasonably enough, sees you retiring to bed and then critiqueing his parenting as rather hypocritical, especially considering that you have actually abused your children and he was forced to watch you do it. That probably sounds very harsh and I do need to qualify it by recognising that you were sick at the time, bravely confronted your illness, and are now in a better place.

Are you genuinely frightened for your children or do you have a difference of opinion in what discipline to use? That is an important question. If the former, you need to act quickly and purely in the interests of your children. If the latter, then you need to discuss with your husband what you want to happen and agree on a compromise that is acceptable to you both.

To be honest, I am not sure MN is the right forum for this kind of question as the strength of anti smacking opinion is so strong. Were you to ask a RL parenting expert, they would probably be against smacking these days but see the occasional smack as a perfectly acceptable (if not optimal) form of discipline. I think that you have struggled through tough times and it sounds as if you are actually coping OK as a family. Am I misreading that or would you agree with that representation? If I am right, then you need to just put some practical steps in place to make sure that no one has so much on their plate that they cannot cope. That goes for both you and your husband.

they would have (IMO) genuine concerns about the wellbeing of your kids.

so ...
please think very carefully before you confide in your GP

Unbeleivable.

Yes Oopsie there would be genuine concerns, but all that would happen is what i outlined in my posts.

The OP and her family need the support that would be offered.

If it is left to escalate then the school are going to pick up on something not being right. Better to have intervention sooner than later.

A member of DH extended family had terrible experience with SS 20 years ago and has never recovered

The system is very different today.

The law has been changed, with it written in that SW's must look to keeep the children in the family by putting services in place.

Every couple of years things change, so don't listen to anyone about what happened in the past, or their circumstances,unless you know what they are telling you to be true.

'The system is very different today.'

haha that's what they used to say when my Dad was put in care (as a consequence of parental illness) 60 years ago!

OP, please dont listen to Oopsie. She is scaremongering.
Do visit your GP. There is support for you and your family that GP can refer you/signpost you to.

the key words in oopsis post are;

60 years ago

60 years ago

Oopsie if you are telling someone not to seek help because of something that happened 60 years ago then you, yourself need help.

Do you feel the same about the medical profession, as well .

No.Read carefully
For 60 years people have been saying 'ah but the system is better now than it used to be'
Plus ca change....

Do what you want OP, I am just trying to point out that once the words are said, they can't be unsaid.Many people on here have interpreted your words as your husband beating your children? What's to stop your words being misrepressnted and SS thinking the same?
I am a bit concerned about your words 'confide' in your GP , you do realise that he can't keep this sort of thing to himself if he thinks there is even an outside chance your DC are in any risk.

and if there is an outside chance the dcs are at any risk, as assessed by an unbiased professional----you think it should be kept secret???????????????

and if there is an outside chance the dcs are at any risk, as assessed by an unbiased professional----you think it should be kept secret?

well I don't, because it doesn't make any difference to me whether the OPs Dc are taken into care, I suspect the OP might feel differently though.

1. they wont get taken into care unless they need to be
2. if they are in so much danger that they need taking into care THEN THEY NEED TAKING INTO CARE!!!

jeez...do you hit your kids by any chance?

Yes personally I think the OP and her DH shouldn't be looking after those kids.But it's not about what I think is it?

I am just trying to make the OP aware of the train of events she may be setting in motion.

I think we can take it as a given that the OP's DH shouldn't be smacking the children for being annoying, minor naughtiness etc. It sounds like they decided as a couple to use physical punishment for 'dangerous' misbehaviour and the boundaries have become blurred for DH. Without excusing this, the DH has been under a lot of pressure over a number of years, and sounds like he needs more support. The fact that he still feels responsible even when the kids are in another room with their mother is quite telling.

Can the GP help with this - I don't know? My advice would be to ask the PIL to take the DC for a few days or a week if possible to give both the OP & DH a break. Then hopefully they can calmly discuss what is going wrong and how they want their family to function now that OPs mental health has improved. If DH has been carrying the burden & is now being told his parenting isn't good enough, I can see him getting defensive, but something has got to change. I also think that they will have to introduce a complete ban on any smacking if he can't tell when he is crossing the line.

Are your PIL in a position to take over care of the children full time for a while? Maybe just to give the children somewhere safe to be until you and your DH can sort yourselves out a bit? I think the children sound like they need a break too.

Firstly - how on earth are people so sure that this man is not leaving marks on these children?
Secondly, a 5 year old expressing such fear of daddy is heart breaking.

OP get help. Because if you don't, the first teacher who sees a hand print bruise on your childs leg will. You are guilty of not protecting them. Stop this abuse now.

Sorry not to reply i have been busy last 12 hours!

Things have definitely got blurred, shelby.
He is smacking one or other of them more than once a week for very minor (IMO) naughtiness. It is not even as if they are that badly behaved but they do sometimes get very silly and it is difficult to get DC1s attention and follow instructions without a lot of effort. My techniques seem to be working, but DC1s behaviour did used to be on a bit of a wave. He would get gradually more and more wild until we felt we had no other option but to smack (as other disciplining methods were not working) but I was never happy with smacking as a discipline (apart from to prevent them injuring themselves running into road etc) and even then would only use it after a verbal warning had been ignored. I actually found that showing my alarm and fear was a better way to stop them in their tracks if they did dash out. But DC1 did seem to calm down and be better behaved for a while when DH was more firm with him. But now it is outside what I would call a disagreement about discipline. He is punishing with a smack with no verbal warning first. He is smacking for very minor misbehaviour. He has smacked when the DCs were annoying him (they can be really annoying sometimes but they are little children FFS!) and when I did not know that either of them had actually done anything wrong.

I know the GP has a duty to inform someone (I assume SS) if they know of abuse.

Hi Xeno.I think I have misunderstood the extent of the smacking.I revise my opinion.I think your DH is NOT a danger at all top your DC and it a disagreement between you as to different discipline styles.I think what he is doing is well within the bounds of non abuse (if that is a word!)
I really really don't think you should mention any of this smacking to the GP as it may well get misinterpreted.By all means talk to him about your DHs stress but I am just saying be careful.

PIL are rather busy at present helping with BILs newborn DD. So not sure if we can go to them next weekend after all.
I'm uncertain how to talk to them about this, it would be so much better if DH could admit to having a problem.

I am afraid MIL will think I am moaning about DH to her and not believe me or take it seriously.
If she believes me I am afraid she will blame me and say it is as a result of my mental health and my failure to cope.
MIL is very caring but worrying fussy type and if she takes me seriously it will upset her and probably make her ill. DH is her PFB.
I think it has to be GP but one of the ones I know well and who i can trust to believe me and not over react. If no appointments available this week (I'm not keen on having 5 min emergency appointment unless with the right doc) I will phone health visitor who I know runs a clinic on a Monday so I should be able to at least make contact. She is brilliant and I trust her as she has carried on seeing me for five years now and she has had MH issues herself. If she is unavailable I guess I'll be phoning my last counsellor from MHS and asking for urgent call back. But I don't want to do this over phone.

It sounds like neither you nor your DH are coping at the moment though, and the children are suffering. If your PIL understand the extent of the problem surely they will prioritise your DC?

Your DC have been facing parental violence towards them throughout their lives. The emotional impact of this will be huge for them, they also need a break from the fear of violence in their home.