To think DH should be able to control his temper and not smack DCs when he is angry?

[xeno]

I know I'm not perfect. I spent several years with severe PND so bad I felt DCs shouldn't be left alone in my company. Gradually I have climbed out of my hole and had them for longer periods by myself and am now taking on much more housework and childcare and beginning to be a proper SAHM. Unfortunately I also have fatigue and pain which I am battling to overcome and currently I have some "normal" weeks but am still incapacitated some of the time. We still have a child carer three days a week and a cleaning lady and help from parents&MIL.

But all this has taken its toll on DH. TBH it would help if my parents didn't come round (whole other story) because they are stressy so I am trying to get up in mornings (my worst time) so DH not alone with DCs at breakfast/school run. But I do play my part during day with DC2, after school, cooking meals, evenings, bedtime routine, housework, organising paperwork, banking, etc. and we both do childcare at weekends. but when I am ill I do have to go to bed. Usually for a few days during which the entire house gets trashed.. I have learned to control my temper and now deal (IMO) very calmly with tantrums and stressful situations and keep my temper.

But When DH is angry (most of the time) he smacks DCs for being annoying, or really minor naughtiness. I think he is out of order. He thinks it is because he is under so much pressure. I try to take pressure off him by looking after DCs so he can have a few hours to do his own thing by himself, and he then tells his DM that he has "done everything" and is very stressed and tired because he "hasn't had any rest". I am pissed off that even though I have been getting better and have been much better for last 5 months (apart from physical illness) he seems to be getting worse. Sorry this has turned into a huge rant!

Please could you give the defintion of 'abuse'. Smacking is abuse? Are you sure?
You do know that smacking is NOT illegal in the UK. Only if you leave a mark.
Everyone keeps talking about abuse. I have yet to read a definitive defintion that "smacking=abuse". Please provide me with one.

If you choose to use smacking as a way to discipline your child then it should be controlled and safe.

Hitting a child out of anger is violent, Violence is abusive.

Smacking is not illegal however smacking in temper is violence therefore is classified as a form of abuse. The op stated that her hubby smacked the kids in temper and anger. There is a huge difference between a parent smacking a child in a calm and controlled manner and smacking in temper. When one has temper issues one is not in control therefore one could smack much harder or go even further. Let us put it into context losing your temper and hitting a child is abuse.

I meant a legal defintion Babooshka.
Smacking = abuse. err no. Actually, that's not true in leagl terms, is it?
Smacking , in the UK, is completely legal, providing you don't leave a MARK.
Anything else, other than that, a smack on the bottom, is compeltettly LEGAL.
Whether you, I, or anyone else agrees with this, is neither here nor there.
I'm just saying, it is a FACT. IT IS THE LAW.

Oblomov yes that is the law however the op asked if it was right that her partner hit the children in temper. Who would think that right no one I should imagine. This is not an issue about law it is an issue about a man who cannot control his temper and is taking his anger out on children who cannot protect themselves. Surely that should be what bothers people not the legalities of smacking.

I must have missed the convictions of parents, who smacked their children, convicted of ABUSE, then ?
How did that pass me by?

Emotional abuse is the most difficult form to collect evidence for, and you are right that smacking isn't illegal yet in the UK. However, very few situations resolve themselves, usually the adults need support to even recognise that there is a parenting failure before beginning to address it.

I had one child who couldn't cope with an unexpectedly raised voice and who would disappear under the table if that happened. Another flinched if any sudden movements were made near him, another threw up at the phrase 'I'll talk to you later' even when said in a calm voice about discussing work. One used to faint in moments of stress, because if she was unconscious she couldn't hear the yelling.
Others who resolved any conflict or threat by hitting or biting.

I'm not saying that the OP's children are going to be like this at all, I don't know them or their situation personally. I don't know if DH is leaving identifiable marks, or how the 5 year old behaves in school.
The children I describe here are a sample of children from abusive backgrounds over the last 3 decades that I have known. Schools are getting better all the time at picking up indicators that there might be concerns that need investigating.

It's illegal to be violent towards anyone, Including children.

He is also intimidating the children so much they feel the need to protect their mother about his behavior.

Violence and intimidation are abusive. That's the law too.

I didn't say it was right, Cravey.
I just object to people writing things, as if they were FACTS, when in actual fact there is not FACT in it at all.
Is smackign abuse? Many people have written that it is. Maybe you would liek to answer thta question., Specifically. In the eyes of the law, I think you'll find that statement is Factually Incorrect.
I'm not saying I agree with it. I'm just saying what the law IS.
Please correct me , if I'm wrong.

Once again smacking is not illegal however smacking a child in temper is and rightly should be considered abusive. The op stated that her children were in fear of daddy that too is classed as abuse. Do not be pedantic please this is a serious subject regarding a family who are in need of help.

FGS how can any mother stand by and watch this happen..my DH would be out and I would have to cope sick or not. OP he is not hitting you, but he is hitting your poor vulnerable kids ..do something before we have even more damaged children in this country.
I know I am not very sympathetic, but the only sympathy I have is for your kids who can't do anything about it. I really can't comprehend how any mother can let this happen once let alone time and time again..Wish I could report this to SS myself! IF you can't protect these poor children please find someone who can. Such a sad situation

Oblomov, all schools have a child protection policy that details what is considered abuse and what staff should do.
Here's one I googled, but it is very similar to others I've read or been involved in creating.
www.meadschool.info/policies/Child%20Protection%20Policy.pdf

You are wrong.

It's not discipline if you are hitting a child because you are angry, It's violence.

and you posted this in 'Am I being unreasonable' is this a joke?? Do you really need to ask on a forum, ask other mums if you are bing unreasonable for letting a 'father' beat his kids..arghh feel so angry

O.K.

person showing lack of discipline or control is the father!

sorry but a mum who stands by and watches someone beat their kids and does nothing has pretty much zero control of the situation also..Look I don't post very often but I just feel so sad for those children

She asked for help didn't she lupo?

I wouldn't dream of judging someone in her situation, I want to help her and her children.

Don't you?

I am going to leave this thread, I just can't feel sympathy for someone who has let this happen again and again..

you lay your life down for your kids , you move heaven and earth to protect them , you stand in the way and put yourself in the firing line if someone even tries to hurt them... You go to a refuge with the clothes on your back and your kids hands held tight. You dont waste time on a forum asking if you are being unreasonable for letting their so called father batter them because he cant control his temper....I just want to scoop these little mites up and give them the life they deserve. I hope SS or someone rescues them..

Some of what you are saying sounds sooo familiar. I have been having strong words with (d)h about his behaviour (towards me, not the dcs). It is very much harder to have come from a vulnerable background, and have to put up with stuff which is not of your making and none of your business.
Horrid, treading on eggshells, horrid. It sounds very much as though your h has problems of his own. Your duty is towards yourself and your children. As an adult, it is his responsibility to look after his end, which includes his temper and his violence. Nobody should have to put up with that kind of behaviour, and there is never an excuse. How dare he assume he can effectively treat you as though you and your children are non-people. Very very sad. Anger and sadness are very close. You can't be responsible for his behaviour.

Thanks everyone. Yes, part of my PND was feelings of extreme rage against DC1 and mood swings and it got worse during 2nd pregnancy and after. I have had lots of counselling which has helped a lot and quite a lot of medication! I also went to parenting classes but so far haven't been able to get DH to adopt what I learned. I do use what I learned myself when dealing with DCs and it is really helpful. When I was ill I did smack DCs on bottom/thigh in anger and sometimes pinched DC1 when he was a baby and knew it was crossing the line and asked for help. I also had moments of rage where I was extremely tempted to do much much worse but managed to leave room without doing any physical damage. I told my Psychiatrist and she changed my Meds and the last six months (may be longer) I have not had any rage or bad mood swings and am managing to deal with my emotions in a much more healthy way.

I can't remember when DH first started this. Our original policy was only to smack in cases where DCs did something really dangerously bad - like trying to run into the road or trying to touch the hob and only as a last resort if no other discipline worked. But DC1 was such hard work and so hard to discipline (and a danger to his baby brother) that we did find we had to use smacking as a punishment when he was naughty. He is much better behaved now (although still a lot of work) But gradually DH has smacked for less serious things, and now he is smacking when they annoy him.

I think he is just at the end of his tether and now I am so much better he is having his turn
He has admitted that even when I am looking after the kids and he is somewhere else doing his own thing he still feels responsible and that when we are all in the same room he feels like he is in charge even if I am actively doing stuff with them. He doesn't seem to be able to let the weight off his shoulders.

The OP doesn't need sympathy,just good advice and a POV of what the issues rae and how tomake a start to resolve them.

She has had that, the balls in her court.

Having arguements about smacking being/not abuseisnot helpful.

When an assessment is carried out all of the factors are looked at, LA's have their own guidelines on how to interpret the law and CP threaseholds. There doesn't have tobe a legal definition of abuse, just a conclusion that the behaviour is abusive.

That is the difference.

I got an assessment within 3 months. Its just that I have been waiting for 1 year 4 months since then

Your LA is breaking the law.

I think you better leave too lupo. You live in an idealistic world where vulnerable people don't exist.

You sound like an utterly appalling parent OP. You HAVE to take some responsibility to make things better in your home.