To think DH should be able to control his temper and not smack DCs when he is angry?

[xeno]

I know I'm not perfect. I spent several years with severe PND so bad I felt DCs shouldn't be left alone in my company. Gradually I have climbed out of my hole and had them for longer periods by myself and am now taking on much more housework and childcare and beginning to be a proper SAHM. Unfortunately I also have fatigue and pain which I am battling to overcome and currently I have some "normal" weeks but am still incapacitated some of the time. We still have a child carer three days a week and a cleaning lady and help from parents&MIL.

But all this has taken its toll on DH. TBH it would help if my parents didn't come round (whole other story) because they are stressy so I am trying to get up in mornings (my worst time) so DH not alone with DCs at breakfast/school run. But I do play my part during day with DC2, after school, cooking meals, evenings, bedtime routine, housework, organising paperwork, banking, etc. and we both do childcare at weekends. but when I am ill I do have to go to bed. Usually for a few days during which the entire house gets trashed.. I have learned to control my temper and now deal (IMO) very calmly with tantrums and stressful situations and keep my temper.

But When DH is angry (most of the time) he smacks DCs for being annoying, or really minor naughtiness. I think he is out of order. He thinks it is because he is under so much pressure. I try to take pressure off him by looking after DCs so he can have a few hours to do his own thing by himself, and he then tells his DM that he has "done everything" and is very stressed and tired because he "hasn't had any rest". I am pissed off that even though I have been getting better and have been much better for last 5 months (apart from physical illness) he seems to be getting worse. Sorry this has turned into a huge rant!

Do you think some of your depressive issues are related to your relationship with your dh? (Just throwing ideas in). I suffered with severe (severe!) pnd with my ex partner and when I left him when dd was 6 months old it was like a weight was lifted from my shoulders... I had to "learn" to parent on my own and stand on my own but I didn't have the weight of him and his opinions and shouting dragging me / us down... I don't know if that's applicable to you, or whether it's something you could consider but at the moment this is not a healthy family for you or your dc's so might be worth thinking about.

I'd also consider getting second opinions re your physical and mental health. Can't hurt. And might help.

And no it's not acceptable for your dh to hit your kids. Ever. Even if he's the most stressed out he's ever been, he's an adult. He should be able to walk away, count to 20 or whatever and come out and start again. It's what being a parent is all about.

I am worried that some people are viewing ss as some bogey man organization, and are projecting onto this situation.
I was in care for a number of years, and they made a few mistakes with my case, however overall me, my mum and my family needed the intervention.

Things didn't start to get better until ss was involved because no one thought it was 'that serious' i am pretty sure that people around us knew what was happening in the family, and i am 99% sure that they didn't report it because they thought ss involvement was an over reaction.
It really wasn't, it made everyone wake up and realise things couldn't continue like that anymore, it was painful and messy, stressful etc, but when you get through the other end you realise how close you were to the edge ( i often think how lucky i am to be alive ) and that was only corrected because of ss involment.

Please stop minimising child abuse, they need ss help more so because the amount of help they recieve already isn't making things better, the dad is excusing himself, he needs a short sharp wake up call so he can accept what he is doing and get the help he needs.

OTT, I'm afrain you maybe doing exactly that - projecting. Glad it worked out for you.

Whereas you are basing your opinion of SS on what you've read?
In the DM perhaps?

Birds, I got an assessment within 3 months. Its just that I have been waiting for 1 year 4 months since then.

Xeno, sorry to hear that things are very tough. One thing I'd say: my DH is incredibly messy, so without being patronising to him, I've had to teach him to tidy up as well as teaching the dc. What we do is to have a 'ten minute tidy' or a 'half hour tidy', so put a time limit on it, and get DH, me and the dc to do specific jobs in that time. If we time it right before something like watching a favourite TV programme together, or sitting down to eat together, that works well.

It sounds enormously dispiriting for you to be using up your precious energy tidying up after everyone - so maybe implementing a daily 'ten minte tidy' might help? I know it's only the tip of the iceberg in terms of stuff you're dealing with, but it might just help...? And tbh, without wishing to minimise the seriousness of the smacking, it might be a way in for you to start talking with your DH about how you want family life to be - if you can work togehter on tidying, you might be able to start talking about the bigger issues.

How could ss involment hurt these children?
SS don't just sweep in and remove children at the first cry for help.

OP has said that grandparents caring for the children isn't an option.
Op has had numerous conversations with the dad who has minimilised the abuse.
The children are really the ones who should be protected here, tbh if the dad doesn't rectify his behaviour removal from the home wouldn't be the worst thing.
He clearly needs someone from outside the home to inform him of what he is doing wrong, and to point/provide help for him and the family, ss are there for that reason.
Who else is going to help them?

It really sounds as though the OP's family is in crisis. The stress of severe PND, health issues, money worries. . . I can see how everyone in the family must be almost collapsing under the strain. OP, I wonder whether your DH might be suffering from some depression himself, or perhaps even post-traumatic stress disorder, and his anger is a symptom? I apologize for the amateur diagnosis, third-hand and via the internet. But it sounds as though he might be reacting, perhaps belatedly, to the anxiety he has been experiencing for several years. Now that you have had a few months of feeling better, he may feel (not on a conscious level) that it is his "turn."

OP, am I right in concluding that you also had anger issues that are now under control? Your DH may not think that his anger is a problem in that case. Of course, I think it is a serious concern. Although I hope never to use smacking, I'm not actually virulently opposed to smacking a child occasionally for discipline. But it does sound as though your DH is overreacting and creating a situation where the children are afraid.

FallenCaryatid's statement early in the thread is extremely insightful, "If they are warning you, they don't see you as a source of support or strength either." Absolutely spot on. The children see you as vulnerable, perhaps someone they need to protect as well. They are so little. They really need to feel their parents will take care of them. If the children are afraid of one parent and view the other as vulnerable, that is somewhat worrying.

I don't know what services are available to you (I'm not in the U.K.), so I hope more well-informed people will provide some information for you. Please do reach out (and keep reaching out) for help from counselling services and for practical help. I wish you nothing but the best, OP, for you, your DH, and most especially for your children.

Fallen, thats not fair. some of us don't have to rely on the DM for our information. My step dad is a SW and my mum worked with him, on the adoption team of many many years.

'sleepchildsleep Sat 12-May-12 15:49:32

I have readt too many things that make me thong actually SS can be baddies. '

Not first hand experience.

My dh is fabulous at making the children tidy up. He has been doing this for years. By 5 and 3.5 they were experts!!

In our reception they use music, a 3 minute track that the children know is the tidying up time. It's Pavlovian, put that track on at any time and they rush around putting stuff away.

I had PND and also have scoliosis....my DH had to go back to work after 2 weeks and I have no help from anyone else...I recovered far faster by doing stuff that had to be done...yoga helped me a lot OP as did early nights and lots of fresh air, a good diet and drinking a lot of water/green tea.

Ok, so ss isn't contacted for help, then what, the dad doesn't listen to the op about the abuse.
How many 'talks' until he has enough of that, gets angry and hits the op because she won't 'stop going on, in that tone of voice?'

OP then becomes afraid of her partner, and is also reliant on him because of physical problems, her own parents are not suitable for long term childcare, and would probably minimilise abuse as they did with the op's childhood.

Her partners parents sound like they wouldn't believe the op if she asked for help etc.

So to some people, it is better that 2 small vunerable children are left to it in an emotionally and physically abusive home with their parents than to be assesed by ss for some support and help?

I'm hiding this now as arguing the toss doesn't help OP. I do think there are some way over the top suggestions and projecting going on here and prehaps this is not helping OP. Good luck OP.x

disabledparentsnetwork.org.uk/

Hope they can advise you how to get some help for you from Social Services.

www.home-start.org.uk/homepage

I am not trying to be aggressive, i am genuinely worried that people coming on here saying ss are baddies will stop the op getting the help she needs, that imo is far worse than telling her what good can come from accessing help.

Also you might contact WomensAid.org.uk

Other people commenting on this thread obviously know much more than I do about what sort of help might be available - but, xeno, while you're deciding what to do, I wondered whether you or your DH ever sit down with the DCs and explain to them that it is absolutely not their fault that their Dad gets so angry with them?

I ask because of the way I was treated as a child. My mother constantly vented her stress and unhappiness on my sister and me. She never said she was sorry or told us that it wasn't our fault, and I was well into my thirties before it even occurred to me that she was the one who was out of order. This has been massively damaging in all sorts of ways, and I have a very difficult with my mother even now, despite the fact that she has apologised for it.

I think that if she had explained to us, when we were younger, that the way she was behaving was nothing to do with us, but was due to other factors in her life, this would have made a huge difference. So, while your DH's treatment of your DCs certainly needs to change, explaining to them that it's not their fault might be an important form of damage-limitation in the meantime.

OTT you are right. My own situation is very different; I have MS, dp very supportive. My first contact with SS was not good; they treated it as a child protection issue. After speaking with DPN, I contacted Disabled Adults section and have had 25hours help per week ever since.

This is a child protection issue. These kids are being smacked by an adult who is not in control of his temper. How long before that smack becomes a punch etc. SS are not demons who whip kids away some depts are there to help in this kind of situation. There is a shortage of care givers for kids who are taken into care so that is the last thing SS will want. However they will want to help the op and her kids and hubby if he wants to accept the help.

Ignore what I said . Cravey is right - It is a child protection issue re 'd'h, but an assistance issue re you.

I think I better leave aswell. It all seems a bit extremist.
Some saying that dh will turn on OP in aminute. That may be so. But may not necessarily be so either. We don't know. I 'd like to see all you walk a day in the lives of OP and her dh. I have an inkling and beleive me, its a tough ride.

Oblo I was the child in this situation.

I grew up with a disabled mother and a father who couldn't cope, I am very grateful to SS.

If op hubby turns on her then yes it would indeed be awful but he is already turning on those children which some people are overlooking. Smacking a child in anger is abuse the op has had many helpful hints on here and I am sure we all hope she listens to them. I don't think in any way this has been taken to the extreme. She the op needs help as does her hubby and her children but my priority in all of this would be the kids .