Welcome to the Turning Tavern III

[Crushinghard]

A continuation of the TTII thread for women unexpectedly finding themselves attracted to other women.

sorry had to leave for a while before responding to that point. NO I mean only confront her if you feel like it, I'm not saying you should, just saying I wouldn't say 'don't do it' if you felt like this would help you deal with it, if you think some fairness can be restored this way. As I say it's not right that she acted weird and never talked to you like a grown up and kindly even after your apology, so it's not fair she sort of got away with it, but you could either leave it be adnbrise above, or tell her off (I think she knows she got to you anyway, if she was deliberately avoiding you as she was scared you can't help her feelings). I mean why do you care what she would think now, if it's over and done with asyou said? Do it for your own satisfaction if you want to, not to influence her thinking - but I think she may feel a bit more guilty if confrinted, I don't know about reporting at school, would she do this? if you ar really worried this will affect things at school better not to, but I can't see what can she actually complain about (you haven't done anything).
I meant not now, but ifearlier she was intertested it wouldn't really matter than she is a teacher and also she may not be teacher forever. Not relevant now - wasn't saying you should wait! I meant exactly that, she wouldn't be against it for he reasons of her job, she'd still go along with it if feelings were strong. As I said her curiousity may have been genuine about the gay thing, but then she changed her mind or decided not to act on it, but not genuine feelings like yours i.e. strong and long lasting.
wiq's children aer not AS traditional as friends but then they live abroad and friends aer more important as her whole life revolves around going out with friends (well, evenings I mean) as she is single. One child visits and he IS quitetrad but he is young so I'm not sure how openminded he is I don't know him (his job is is vey establishment though). The older one is I'm sure more openminded as he is spiting image of wiq and I think very similar and she is generally open minded 9like she's friends with a gay man etc) but I think she'd worry whether her friends aer as open minded.

*can't help your feelings

hi outmy, been away from internet all day, how are you? still sad no doubt, but I hope you could focus on dd this weekend. have you decided to rise above it or tell her off?
yesterday was not a good day to start such talks with her, just completely wrog atmosphere. For once she didn't have a drunken sunday lunch and was sober and subdued and very matter of fact so rt of mood plus working. She was friendly, but no flirty vibes whatsoever, to compare with some moments in the past. Unfortumately it looks like she's focused on the man now and it looks like I will have to let it go, as I can't be just hoping and waiting. feel like I ve reached limit and she's just not been ebciuraging enough recently (I mean she never was THAT encouraging but since this dating started it's less than usual). Like, we had a chance for a longish chat yest, and it all went well, some small talk, but sort of nice, I even made her laugh about something, but ther was no long eye contact (like at some other times) and no flirty voice, and also she made no effort with her appearance at all (I don't mind whatsoever when she wears casual but what I mean I ALWAYS try to look nice when i'm with her - I don't mrean dressed up but say I wouldn't sit ir slack pose on the sofa that shows my figure in a not=so-good way - she did. I still am attracted no matter what but it just shows she 's gone off the idea even though I think she does think I'm attractive and has a bit of a soft spot for me, but it's not you know , in a REALITY category so she's not making an effort. I kind of remener that previously she was a little (and sometimes a lot) more careful of how she looks. She did still give a couple of appreciative looks later on, and I think she does sort of fancy me in a light herated way, or as a harmless fantasy. But it looks that she's just not going to make any effort of getting closer /involved even as friends. The problem is her life is TOO full, she's always seeing someone or arranging to see them on hte phone, or she's working. I think if she wasn't so overactive, she could allow some indulgent thoughts, but she's just quite stressed, and I think she wants it that way as she doesn't like loneliness. If I was a man I'd just put a lot of effort to persuade her that the r-ship is worth having by showing a lot of intiative, taking her out etc, but really my hands aer tight as although i can (and have a couple of times) ask her to go somewhere with me, she was dithering both times and I feel like I can't be pushy (it wouldn't be seen odd from a man at all). I also am getting fed up a bit that she can't make any steps gerself, if she didn't respond to mine (though she was dithering), it neverworks when it's one way effort - at least it could work if I was sure i can offer hat she wants, but I'm not am I. I don't know whether she knows how i feel or not, if she does then it's definitely hopeless, as she'd make some small steps already. If not - well even you think from my posts that she does - then it also means bad news as this would nean she's so hetero that it never ccrossed her mind. I will see her again next week but suddenly I feel quite 'stubborn' and watn her to show something, and I will stay warm towards her, if this doesn't work I reallly will have to leave it. I do feel weird about it, but I think you have to accept that things are either meant to happen or not, and if they aer I will be open to it for a while IF she steps it up, but I won;t be actively hoping for longer than a couple of weeks. I'll see her less end July/aug due to holidays so I think she has a small window, and then I just won't have the energy anymore. I can still have loving feeling to her platonically as I really don't want to stop seeing her altogether. I tink it's possible to settle for just loving someone as a person without wanting anything much, bu of course be looking for r-ship elsewhere.

*my hands are tied

I think it's best not to volunteer for now - you can always volunteer when you feel you've moved on emotionally, later. In your case BECAUSE it was going on for years, it's going to be very unhelpful to still be seeing her, and also the fact that your wiq is not even friendly, so it can't transfer into friendship. It's just going to interfer with your progress. Maybe in a year/6months time you could do it again. I'm in a different situation where we ae friendly even if not close friends, and we both like the arrangements we have with each other in practical sense so I THINK i could gradually detach emotionally or with any expectations once my head is in the right place i.e. I know that nothing will happen. I will try that anyway - I just for te first time can accept that things will not happen romantically and then see whether I can just trasfer my feelings into just platonic admiration/love as you can love a person, but in a more detached way. As I say I haven't closed the door completely yet and want to adopt this new mentalty and behave in a coll relaxed way - IF suddenly she responds I'm still there for a few weeks, but after that I'm going to shut the door romatrically speaking. I don't know but something kicked in, maybe talking to people and all the hoping I've done and all te little efforts that she did say thank you to but nevber done anything towards me (apart from some vibes of course) that would show she can treat it as something real. I still think she feels some attraction maybe a bit irrationally but as i say she may likre it as a mild pleasant fantasy, which I decided I can't hang on to as I'm not a fantasist and never has been - if I can see that it doesn't lead to reality I just inevitably cool off. I think I'm in for mood swings about it, and will feel very sad in a couple of weeks when i decide to shut the door in romantuic way as i say, but at this moment there is actually a feeling of relief at me accepting things! even though also fear of emptiness that i will feel more soon, but i already did feel that when she was off. I just decided that I'm not going to lose her altogether if i accept things and it's good enough, I will see whether i can stick to that, no guarantee of course. I would want to move on too but I'm very confused atm as I was off men for all this time and it will take a while to get interested in anyone.

interfere*

didn't have time earlier, but also wanted to comment on what you said about her thinking twice if I did tell her. The point is I do NOT believe that if a woman is stringly hetero it would help telling her - why on earth would she get interested just because a woman told her?? it doesn't work like this. Telling a gay/bi woman of course could well work and is definitely worth it. The only other scenario (as it was the case with one poster on htese treads) is that two previously hetero women became amazing close friends and tey were free to do what they wanted and it followed into more - it CAN happen. But I'm not close frienbds with wiq, mainly because she doesn't encourage it - I would go this slow route, but she had opportunities and she still keeps it at just friendly level but no crossing into real friends. Possibly there wd be a remote chance if she was at a loose end in life, not knowing what shewanted etc and opebn to experiments, but she's not at all like that, the opposite! plus dating a man! You did say yourself that you think she feels something for me, and I also think there is some attraction from her - but in this case she already thought about this scenario, and she saw vibes from me. Evn if she wasn't sure, if she felt anything at all and saw some overtures from me she would have at least considered it at made some steps to find out, wouldn't she? she could easily have asked whether i had a BF, or she could hav accepted an invitre from me to go to an exhibition adn tried to suus it out, but she's not done any of these. So if we assume she has some attraction she just doesn't want it to become reality, and me tellingher wouldn't help in this case either. She's a go getting typem and if she wanted something she'd make at least some stps carefully to find out more info. I think she prefers it to be under wraps and a bit of fantasy if she feels anything. She obviously feels more strongly about men as that's what she is choosing to do. I know it may ne safe option but then she doesn't watn unsafe options. So all these vibes and glances aer just a diversion or something - adn tey aer not even always there. I just think I should let her approach the subject if this was ever to happen, as really I've been ingratiating and giving her looks much more than she were and I'm tired of same 'safe distance' response. I'm not going anywhere. I also decided to cool it because I just know I'd regret it if she felt awkward about the whole thing and either not see me again or reduce our contact a lot, I jst know that I'd regret it.

so far I'm still thinking of her most of the time, and no idea how I would shake that off, or when. But I'm hoping to channel it into a platonic direction and maybe it will be less intense in a while.

hi outmy - how are you feeling now? yes, it's best not to confront her unless you felt strongly like doing it (which yo sounded like to start with) - I think we both might now go into some kind of aoathy , you know sort of feeling a bit numb.
No I wouldn't want not to see her. I can easily not seeher if i wanted to - she would be a bit surprised and ask why but I could make up some expanations, but I don't want to. I mean it would be somewhat inconvenient for me, as I said, our cooperation is useful for BOTH of us, not just to her benefit, but I could if I wanted to not see her for say two months easily, especially as it's coming to holidays, and i will be away for a bit, and she will etc. I will see her less than i did in June regardless of my feelings anyway. But as I say the whole point I didn't tell her is not to lose contact if she didn't like it, so I want to keep the contact, maybe friendship will develop a bit if slowly. I haven't stopped liking her a lot. In your situation it's different as you aer not even friendly and you both don't get any convenient benefits from any arrangements. PLus your wiq is completely uncommunicative. Mine is not always chatty but we do talkm I enjoy it, and at the moment as I moved to a new city I don't know people there and it's not like I had time to develop any new friendships, so people i know and like I don't want to lose. Also I still think of her all the time, and i get constant flashbacks to nice moments we had, and flirty ones. But this pass if she now decided to stpo that (last time there was none of that) - I don't see her often anyway, once a week or once in two weeks this month (and not for long). I think it's my thinking between the meetings that matters - I just need to adjust to the new attitude.
This was my point though - if she WAS bi, she would surely be tuned in very well to all the looks, trying to prolong chats etc, and she would make some steps at least to manke sure, even as innocent as asking anything about my personal life as most people would ask if they know you for months and you aer friendly, or as i say she could either ask me out or gone along with my (even though only two) invites. As i explain I just feel some resistance, and you commented on it too - she's not shaking me off completely, but she's put up a barrier which she decided not to cross, this is why it was so confusing for so long (and still is) - I feel there ARE attraction vibes even though not always strong - but also resistance vibes. Now the man appeared the positive vibes aer more subdued - as i say looks like she decided she 's not going to do the upheaval with her life at her age, it's just too complicated (my male friend now says the same - whatever her capacity to be bi, she doesn'y want to upset her nice life). I just feel if I approached her, she would be evasive and going on how comlicated it would be, in the best case scenarion, that's now the gut feeling. I do think she is not unaware of me being attracted.

apathy*

of course she may not be bi at at all, but sort of played a bit with the idea as I was giving her vibes, or maybe she finds it unusual and amusing that a woman is interested. But if she did play at all, she played in a kindly way unlike your wiq, even though there were very coold painful moments too.

I think you misunderstood - of course wee do chat asking 'how aer you' ot in my case she asks a bit about the new place i moved in and other bits and pieces. By personal life i mean relationships - either about exH or whether i had a bf. Obviously if she never asked me any question it would be rude. But we tend to chat about mutual subjects mire and also i ask her more about her life (but she doesn't dweel much) - ther eis more to ask, like about children. I also don't ask about nf but her being so much older it's more polite to her ask her if she asks me first.

remember when i sent her a text a month ago that I'm sorry she got annoyed with me trying to chat (it was obvu=iously an 'upset' text) and she ewnt out of her way next time to set aside good 20min and talk properly, so it's not like she doesn't give a damn, and if you look at it as purely friendly but not deep relationship it's enough what she does - she chats more to me and warmer (which is the main point) then to other non close friends. But no lengthy chats or heart to hearts like with friends/relatives and even the new man on the phone (but it's never actually long with him, much more with friends). Especially if she noticed the vibes but doesn't want to go there, I ca bsee why she wouldn't want a closer friendship. I'm only upset because i want more, and if she was enamoured she'd do more, that's what I'm saying. She is genuinely very busy and has quite a few friends, she just doesn't sit around much - so even to find time for someone new would a challenge, she'd have to WANT to be close to that person.
Maybe if I coold down the vibes she would be open to friendship, but again hte age gap doesn't really help.
So you agree now theere was no pint me telling her as she probably noticed anyway but wouldn't act on it whatever she feels or doesn't feel?
I felt quite depressed earlier today, it's like htere is nothing to look forward to and nop way I can get her out of mind at this point. Just trying to get more busy with other things.

so you now consider volunteering? why though? because you like it so much? I think in your case it's not a good idea for now at least, as wiq is not even friendly and youd be stuck mentally if you see her every week! why not have a break and then later continue? is it because you don't know how else to occupy yourself besides dd and will feel too lonely?
I really don't think wiq thinks you are a player - why on earth would she? all you did recently was consistent, and before you were open and only after a negatiuve response you were off, but that's normal. She may think you are weird for holding on without encouragement for htis long, but def not a player!

if your paths won't cross then go for it - but you want her to notice that you aer there, you say. So you mean she will still see you at a distance but there will never be a need to chat? You were worried that she saw you coming to volunteer as interest in her though, this time! obviously yo have been nice (talking, smiling) so yes, if you cut this out she couldn't really think you are comning back because you aer still hoping. But you have to stick to indifferent/cold behaviour, as far as you don't keep watching for her reaction, as that will get you stuck for much longer!
You see I just don't get it - how would she surprise me (in best case) if I did ask - I just don''t understand the logic of it as i explained how i see two scenarios (her being ni and not being bi) and however you look at it she's just not responded properly to my initiatives apart from saying it was sweet of me etc and being evasive when i sent very suggestive texts (you know about them). Why then didn't she surprise me so far, but only would if I was very direct?? surely she would try to get closer already if there was a 10% chabce? if not, can you explain as I can't see it. Remember she is single and free to do what she wants, she is also a go getting type who goes after what she wants from what I've seen, so why on earth not make more steps in response to my efforts if she was interested? even if she wasn't sure about my feelings there were lots of ways to ask subtle questions - she is vERY intelliegent. It's weird as i think it's not all done and dusted somehow, but we'll see if anything shifts with my new relaxed/no efforts behaviour, obv if nothing changes then I ve been just doing wishful thinking.
The thing is I'm not complaining that I'm thinking of her - there is NO was of stopping it, even when I work i still think of her most of the time. Work is good distraction really and I find travelling around really helps - I m explotring the area and being summer it's enjoyable. She's with me anyway in my thoghts but it's not tortured as I'm doing these things. As I say I haven't even shut the door completely, see what happens bext couple of weeks and meanwhile will be adjusting to new attitude. I did go to a yoga class today and feel in better mood, but it comes and goes. I'm not sporty so no sport clubs for me, as to social ones - no idea how to find them! I still have lots to do with sorting my stuff out and getting new place presentable. Also trips to london where I'm doing a short ourse which i really like but it's it's finishing this month.