Welcome to the Turning Tavern III

[Crushinghard]

A continuation of the TTII thread for women unexpectedly finding themselves attracted to other women.

NotFor - maybe your H is openminded and hoping for threesome? men often have that secret agenda. Otherwise yes, just sex is nothing like a r-ship. Interesting about Jessie J! to me she's such a tomboy so I'm not at all surprised! Your crush doesn't seem obviously interested but it would be useful to fimnd out if she ever had such leanings..Just '...' is not flirtatious unless the phrase was half suggestive. Some people put this all the time in texts, in fact my wiq used to a bit. Do you have any plan about her, i.e. how to get closer? inviting her out or something?

mind you it's not just that, NFP, it's also her partner that need consideration - it sounds too complicated because you ae noth with men really, and happy at that.

i don't really have a plan. esp as she doesn't seem interested. just carry on as normal; see her at work, go for the occasional drink as a group and hope she sticks around till the end of the evening again... if anyone can think of a better plan, do feel free to make suggestions!

yes, she does seem happy. he seems to be there in the background of her life. she did ask me once if 'anything was wrong' with me and my dh and i sort of shut her down defensively. cant read much into it.. seems a long time ago now.

if you aer in the same group socialising after work, that's ideal. I wish i was in this situation (though of course for wiq to be single) - I could really build up her interest then. If you can pretty much take it or leaave that's a great attitude try to keep to it!

yeah, the not being single thing's a definite red flag. putting that fact aside do you have any tips for getting her more interested? last time, as people were leaving, i was just sitting there hoping she'd stick around and buy me a drink. and she did. don't know how far i can get on hopes and whimsy alone! is there some kind of bisexual code i could use to sound her out? i'm thinking something along the lines of what gay people used to have in the 1800s, when everything was about looks in book-lined studies, and arranging matches in a suggestive fashion

haha NFP I wouldn't know about codes, I'm not experienced ! it's already good that she stays and buys you drinks (outmy andme wd be over the moon for our wiqs to do that simple step!) - although yours is feeling much safer doing these things, no doubt, as she is married/partnered, can always back track iykwim. How long has it beeen going on - your interest? was it just this one meeting and some looks? then just do what you aer doing (drinks after work) it will happen if you both feel something. You can of course hold eye contact for longer than usual when talking/having drinks, that's a universal code really. But not when really drunk as then it can not mean anything .

I don't know how long really... looking back I spent a lot of time feeling frustrated and annoyed by her, and not really knowing why. Now it seems clear to me that I was basically in denial about my true feelings. A lot of the things which used to get my back up, like her fishing for compliments (with me, and with men when i'm around - can't speak for what she's like when i'm not there of course!) could now be construed in a slightly different light. Along with her making sure that I knew she regarded me as more attractive than most other members of the work environment. (her stating it quite blatantly on more than one occasion). I suppose I got annoyed inwardly as I thought it was just empty flattery or that annoying 'i'm so liberal' flirting which signifies bugger all. Now i'm wondering if I was judging her harshly.

In terms of looks, for a while I felt like I was competing with her at work, so I made a point of not lingering on eye contact. Just being polite and professional. I was in two minds as to whether to reply to her last email, but you know how these things peter out, and I thought maybe better to let the thing die than annoy her by making further jokey replies. I'm never sure when an email 'thread' becomes so frivolous as to be socially unnacceptable! . Didn't want to overstep the mark.

there was one occasion when she was sitting next to me and wearing tights with a short skirt. I was distracted for a while, and when i looked back the tights had dissappeared and i was left sitting there trying to ignore her lovely legs. which might have been because she was hot. in one or both senses.

hmm, yes she seems to be giving you come-ons. So did you do anything more recently that's more responsive? more eye contact now? the way you described your behavior before was very 'uninterested' - God it does make me wonder about my wiq who also gets annoyed sometimes and when a tense momnent lingers a bit then excuses herself - she also DID look at my legs when i was sitting theree in a skirt on a warm day (normally I wear jeans, but whenever it's a skirt she looks). But you see it gives me hopes that at those upsetting times when she is annoyed of suddenly cold maybe it's not all doom and gloom. Did you ever compliment her? The thing is I complimented wiq quite a few times (not just on looks but other things), but she never once complimented me eve though it's apparent from approving looks that she likes the look of me (whether it's purely visual or sexual is not the point) - what do you think is that about? just few days ago I actually said she looked very nice before going out, I did't previously say anything directly about looks - and she asked me again but then it was 'Ahh thank you' and rushed off (slighly annoyed?) - but as i say nevr once did she say a compliment of any kind. I wonder if you didn't, is there any reasoning? Are you primarily attracted to her looks or personality? sha may well be bi, why not. I still uneasy about what would happen if you develop those feelings but won't be able to get involved in r-ship..

*when a tense moment arrives

I still feel uneasy* - I have no patience with typing, do I

hmmm... i have given her compliments about e.g her pretty smile, but in a lighthearted way and in response to an anecdote. On the legs occasion, I was sitting there thinking ''shall I say 'ooh, nice legs!' in the way that other people might remark on an item of clothing. but it was an otherwise formal situation and I suppose I felt daunted at the prospect of her perhaps realising that I was serious. I've got to rush off. back later

back again. can't seem to stay away from this thread. to answer your questions - yes I've decided to be very relaxed about eye-contact and to hold her gaze for as long as she seems to want. if your wiq is anything like me, then she holds back from giving you compliments perhaps because she doesn't want to look like she's handing you everything 'on a plate' - maybe she enjoys the chase, or maybe she's just massively nervous about the whole thing. It's hard when you're dealing with a woman you perceive as more confident, or more relaxed about things than you are. I don't think i've ever said anything to her to which her response has been to run - she likes to listen and respond and deal with things head on. But that's her style professionally and personally. On the other hand, lots of things she says and does make me feel uncomfortable because they draw my attention to a side of my sexuality i've kept hidden for most of my adult life. I feel embarassed, is the honest answer. I spent so many years at school and elsewhere terrified of being called a 'lezza' and scared of the crushes i had on my female friends that it's hard even now to put that habitual denial, and burying of things to bed.

When she compliments me, I smile and say thanks, and shrug it off the way you describe your wiq as doing. And yes, hurry away or find something else to do as quickly as possible
I would say i'm equally attracted to her looks and personality. I can see she has flaws (don't we all!) but i don't feel like they matter a jot. A bloke we were with said something really quite disrespectful to her (as a joke) and i leapt to her defence in as subtle away as I could. Not like when i fancy a man and I convince myself he's perfection and deny every glaring fault. I suspect that last bit is social conditioning.

yes, the bloody social side of it! I'm pretty sure that wiq is also embarrassed about the attraction whether from or from her side, I mean could be fine with it personally but can't get her hear round of how she would be viewed by all friends/relatives. I almost envisage her thoughts running on the lines 'now everyone will discuss how X (her) turned gay in old age, haha, with much younger woman at that' - and that may just completely put her off, possibly her mood swings towards me ar influenced by this. I really don't think I completely imagined her attraction (even if it's not as string as mine, it is there to whatevber extent). The question is, could she ovecome this thinking? would you, if your wiq showed interest (and say if ther ewas no issue of your H)?
Your wiq can't be much older if she wears short skirts with bare legs! unless you are 20!
I wonder though - you say that yo really don't enciurage or flirt as such, but she does see somehow that you can be that way inclined, so you mest give hre SOME signals, unless someone told her that you aer secretly bi. Who started the whole thing, did she? Or possibly, do you appear boyish and she sort of sensed it anyway? You know I can so see the boyish side of wiq (the one that I don't have) even though she can flip into feminine mode, it does help me to hope that she is not a typical woman. I tried sending a subtly suggestive text yest - no reply. Do you think she would reply if she was interested or could she be determined to hear it directly (or not interested). I really don't know whether this non response (not that it was a question - she always answers questions, but I was hoing for some equally subtle thing) means that she diesn't want hints, or that she's mpre likely not interested? the point is, as I've beeen sayiog for a while she hasn't stopped contact with me which she can do at any time, so she can't be repulsed can she.

sorry same sentence twice pretty much! - I must start concentrating! will type slowly from now on.

Today is one of those awful days , similar to how you felt outmy a few days ago, when this is really doing my head in and I feel low - and miss her (possibly due to unanswered suggestive text yesterday). I really want to tell her, but I'm so scared of final rejection, there in black and white!! If I feel bad even after unanswered text as it's rejecting, how can I face true and proper rejection? I'm just going in cirles in my head what to do. What if it's worse than I think, and if I tell her she will be shocjed, or laugh, and wouldn't want to see me again (the last thing will really crush me). On the other hand I really feel like telling her. How to get the courage regarding the possible rejection, outmy and NFP?

Oh likea i'm so sorry you're feeling low.

Remember there could be any number of reasons why she hasn't replied - not just the worst case scenario... i think you could be right about her being scared of the social implications. it terrifies me to be honest, as i have some quite bigotted religious people in my family, and even my own parents are adamant that heterosexuality is 'the best way'

she's about 7 or so years older, i think. i don't mean tacky mini-skirts or anything! i'm early 30s by the way. in terms of signals i'm giving out - i suppose it depends on the existence of gaydar! perhaps we're sensing things intuitively about one another... I suppose i'm not really girly in terms of wearing tonnes of makeup or anything, although i'm not adverse to a nice dress once in a while and my hair's fairly long. so that mightve given her something to pick up on. if she has picked up on it, that is!

I can try to help you on the courage front. although i'm a fine one to talk, really! remember you're a strong, beautiful woman whom any other woman, or man would be bloody lucky to find. rejection, if and when it comes, would help us both to move on to more suitable potential partners (even if it seems impossible to imagine feeling this way about another woman at the moment). You can't control how she feels about you, but you can choose to treat yourself with love and kindness and try to take the focus onto something else, however momentarily. A very unmumsnetty hug to you ((()))

thank you NotForProfit, it's very nice of you to offer me the confidence boosting talk and a hug! It's crushing if SHE doesn't think I'm beautiful/strong or not goodenough for her, this stings, but yes, I will try to concentrate on the thought that this still doesn't put a value on me. It's also though a matter of missing her if she doesn't want any contact - I wrote before that I'd rather we stayed friendly no matter what but then she'd have to be kind and understanding and not freal out about my confession. I feel I have to do it though as otherwise I'm starting to feel like weak and a coward - plus there is this guy on the scene who could pursuade her ionto a r-ship (I really sgouldhave done smth before but I didn't feel really ready). I'm more ready than ever. Another point is, I know it could be just her social reservations - but if they aer important, nothing will happen i.e. same bad result regardless of hte reasons. You didn't say whether you'd could overcome your social reservations (and tellingthe family)? if not, then what hope is there if she's similar..
Ah well, only 7yrs is not really an age gap! I think she is giving you come-ons!but whether it's just safe flirting as she jnows you both have partners, or does she mean to act on it, only time will tell. Did she initiate it though? I take it it hasn't been long? you could of course respond more to her little advances if you want to find out.

i suppose if anything has been initiated (and i don't know that it has, officially speaking) then it would make sense to say that she has. and this 'whatever-it-is' has been there as a dim awareness for at least the duration of our acquaintance ( a few months or so)

it's tricky when you work with the wiq and they tend to occasionally put little asides on their 'official' sounding emails. hard to know what's friendliness, and what might seem a little bit more unneccessary and therefore possibly a come-on.

i don't know if i could overcome my family reservations tbh - for many many reasons. she is also from a fairly traditional background afaik. perhaps another reason why i'm hoping it'd just be physical. no need to make announcements!

all you can do is go more drinks with her, I think it will soon become clear as she sounds like she's on some sort of track, i.e. quite consistent. This is lucky as no on/off in some crazy way - just let her lead but if ou want to find out sooner. respond a bit more. If you aer both in yor 30s that's nice, no age issues and mature enough to pick up on things. It's just a big issues that you aer both attached
outmy you said in one of the recent posts that my wiq might be just too nervous and not had it in her to drop stronger hints. Ok , I accept that. But then she could EASiLY ask me when I'm sending her sugggestive texts (as texts aer easier) - or even face to face when I linger, what did I mean by my message - it's such an easy and safeway to move things along, as I can then always say 'I meant {something else)' and no one is emabarrassed, OR I could ve said that I meant something amourous - the point is, I give her opportunities not to give me any strong hinmts but just to ask what did I mean - don't you think that this is a sign she's not interested (or at least not enough to make it real)? If she was doing that I would have definitely asked in this way if I was feeling something myself. NFp - what do you think? I know yo haven't always replied to your wiq's initiatives but you did stay for drinks deliberately which is something. With mine it's jus tlooks and vibes but no action from her!?

ah ok, so you are still confident it can be just physical - well, that's much easier, especially as your H knows. You see, again I mentioned this as possible thinking of my wiq - she may want it just physical and would go along if I offered, but she can see that I'm too sensitive a type not to want emotional r-ship (I displayed being emotional towards her - and senstive to some unrelated comments) so she may have decided that I'm not the right type of woman (i.e. one who'd want to keep it secret), even that she wouldn't want to hurt me or something. The thing is I'm perfectly happy to keep it secret for a while - until we both know whether we want a more permanent union. I'm new to this too so I would also want to see how it goes on a physical level (I mean I have feelings for her but if it's a disaster in bed or she's not patient if need be, then it may not work) - so I'd happily pretend to her relatives that I'm just a friend who visits as I have been around nearly a year anyway, the problem is that if it works well on all levels I would feel bad if not acknowledged publicly, at least to people I met.

hmmm...it's really hard to tell with your situation, Likea. could you give me an example of one of the messages you sent, without giving yourself away?

I described one before but will repeat (the thread IS long). I said that I think she'd enjoy my company more if she didn't keep as distant (I wanted to say, safe distance but didn't ) - then added that if that's not what she wanted I still want to be helpful and there for her as I have been (with various things) whatever her attitude to reducing the distance - something on these lines. She ignored the distance bit , just texted 'I know and i honestly appreciate it'. Yesterday was one light hearted comment (not as serious as that text' more flirty - didn't reply. Face to face though there were flirty moments from her at times.