Beautifulwho had to call women's aid

[beautifulwho]

I have taken my debit cards back, my DH was not happy, he was really angry that I wouldn't give him them back 'think of the boys, when you've spent all our money and there's no food for them'. He was pacing, shouting, broke the stair gate by banging it closed and stood in the doorway holding my DS2 not letting me through whilst shouting at me. I asked him to trust me to not spend money as yes this has been an issue (taking boys into town for coffee, getting them a toy etc when feeling low) not massive amounts but we don't have massive amounts of spare cash.

He wouldn't leave for work and was incensed that I wouldn't give the cards back. I kept praying whilst he was shouting for strength and he text the pastor's wife before driving off to work telling her I had stolen my cards and was planning on going on a spending spree. She said there is not a lot they can do if we can't resolve arguments by ourselves but they will come over tomorrow afternoon. I told her how he behaved but she wasn't bothered really, exasperated probably. I'm shakin and crying and so alone I don't know what to do. No-one to contact for impartial advice so I called women's aid and they will call back when a volunteer is free...sorry for another one of these threads but I just feel so mixed up. He said I wa on a downer and not making sense and not answering his questions. I'm lost again x

Beautiful, the sex pressure is part of the abuse .

Take care, try to get a plan together, or just be as safe as you can.

This is something which I think will be helpful to consider.

You say, 'no'. He says, 'why?' Do you know what - you do not gave to give a reason - none at all. You do not have to give a reason, an excuse or anything. Just because someone asks a question does not mean that you have to answer it - it's part of sales training, how to get into a discussion because once you have an answer to an open ended question you have the foot in the door.

I can't think of any conversation following the 'why' that doesn't leave you vulnerable to manipulation. I'd just change the topic conversation to the weather. Or ignore it completely. But then, I was born with a double helping of awkward. I know it isn't as easy for you. However just knowing it is an option may help.

I think this is important - you do not need to justify yourself to him or anyone else. Sorry, but I hope that helps. When you've been backed into a corner for years, it's really hard to hear that. It is up to you how and when you act on any of this, but honestly, you have value, you have intelligence and you have the right to make choices. And one choice is to walk away from their script.

Of course he is acting like this morning didn't happen. He is Mr Reasonable, Mr Calm, Mr Sane. Any emotional reaction will bounce off that leaving you upset and confused and looking like you have mental health issues and he is justified. If this doesn't work he may go back to shouting etc. btw - of course he is busy with his Bibles, he needs to look like Mr Respectable Churchgoer to the pastor and try and paint you like a crazy woman. Expect him to do all he can to undermine and upset you just before the pastor arrives so that you cannot be composed and lucid. He may pick at something like housework or the meal - just to put you on the back foot. I am really not sure that this meeting is a good idea, I hope you will be okay. You are bound to feel a bit under siege.

When I have felt backed into a corner and hounded by questions that I don't want to answer, I sometimes focus on something else really hard. Do you know any psalms off by heart - working through them may help if you are in the middle of the storm. And do not commit to anything until you have had time to pray about it. You need to make decisions away from immediate pressure.

Still praying for you. Also, you sound really beautiful from your posts. I wish I had a scrap of your dignity. Sorry about another long post.

Beautiful, I am not religious myself, but was brought up a Catholic, in a very large, very staunch Catholic family. My brother was married in church by a Catholic priest, a Jesuit. SIL was not a Catholic, and so they went for Instruction, before they married. There are things which need to be clarified about Godly Rule and Godly Submission.

My SIL actually promised to obey! I was gobsmacked. Modern girl, no religion, obey?! Madness! So I asked her. Here's more or less what she said, which was the Instruction of the Catholic Church.

The husband promises to love and to cherish his wife. What she is promising to obey are the decisions the husband makes. He makes these with great obligation to her. His decisions must be reasonable; he must take her needs, wishes, desires, into account and her needs and desires must weigh more heavily in his hands than his own. His first duty is to care for her, and if his actions do not show unequivocally that he does then he must be called to account. If his wife feels that he is favoring himself above her in his decisions then he must explain to her satisfaction or cease his actions. Should the husband prove through his behaviour that he is not wielding his 'power' fairly or reasonably then she no longer has a duty to obey him. He has broken the contract they made between themselves in their vows, and therefore she is no longer under obligation to him. I've been a bit long-winded, but I feel it's important, and I don't think I've really explained it very well. Ignore if it really isn't relevant in any way shape or form, though.

I have no idea what your church is, not Catholic certainly. Please think about this though. It seems pretty clear to us here that he has failed repeatedly and deliberately in his duty of care towards you; are you sure that he has not forfeited your Godly Submission as a result?

There are lots of things in the Bible that people ignore! I say that as a very committed Christian. If in doubt I always refer back to loving each other as we are loved, loving our neighbours as ourself. The greatest commandment after loving God.

For this week's Bible study our vicar posed an interesting question, based on the reading about the woman in the temple and casting the first stone. It was about whether people have hidden agendas with their specific moral stances. I would look at the whole widely submission idea through that lens. It is a tool of control and in the majority of cases purely to keep a woman where a man thinks she should be. That is not love. 1 Corinthians 13 is love, Jesus is love, and God is love.

My husband, also a Christian, always says that people use rules and look elsewhere in the Bible for rules to apply, especially to others, because it's actually easier to do that than treat others how we would like to be treated. And of course others can have a vested interest in perpetuating such things because of their own circumstances.

God did not create the church, people, specifically men, did. Jesus and his message of love and tolerance and forgiveness, was sent to counter institutional religion with its rules and hypocrisy. We can easily forget how amazingly radical he was!!

There are churches out here that certainly do not believe you should put up with abuse. That people conveniently forget that husbands are also supposed to submit!

Just checking in and thank you so much for your messages, they're keeping me grounded and helping me not to excuse his behaviour

He tried to initiate sex last night but I said no, he tried again I said no! He turned over to sulk. Then when I was asleep he grabbed my boob so I slapped his hand. This he did not like and was quite offended.

So here's to another day, I hope women's aid will be able to offer some hope that there is a way out of this mess x

Arrrrrggggh! Will someone post some flowers?

Hooray!

Posting flowers. Not worked out how to use those symbols.

Jux made a point far more eloquently than I could, in that an abusive husband breaks his wedding vows!

Beautiful - i've been following all your threads and wishing you strength. Havn't posted as you are getting great advice here already.

But i had to say ...

WELL DONE FOR LAST NIGHT! It was so good to read just now that you stood up for yourself there :)

Let him sulk!

He knows that what he is doing is wrong. Wrong by Jesus' teachings and wrong in terms of the law. He does not believe that he has this overarching right over another human being, no matter what he says. It is done through twisted logic and through twisting the real, fundamental words of the New Testament. Love does not coerce. That's all you need to say really, love does not coerce.

Well done last night, you go woman!

Feel mean DH gone to work and has said sorry a few times, I think he is but I don't think he knows how to change. I wish he could go and stay with someone at church that could encourage him and tell him how loving your wife works.

Feeling a bit low this morning, trying not to think about the emotions side of things. Putting it in a box helps me to forgive I guess.

I wonder if the church would allow separation for a time, so DH could get his head around what I'm saying and how he's behaving? X

Is he saying sorry because he's genuinely penitent, or as a way to get you back under control?

Afaik, it's divorce that's a problem, legal separation is no biggie. Which is ok as long as you don't want to get married again!

No feeling mean, and no feeling guilty Beautiful!

It's not your place to councel him when he's treating you this badly. If he needs help to see how to be a good husband then let him seek it out.

You need to care for you right now.

And yes - i have to say i doubt he's really sorry to be honest.

Exactly, purple.

Also, don't feel mean, beautiful. This is how a normal person should behave - does something wrong, says sorry. You feel mean because your husband has actually behaved (almost) normally; does that help you see how hard you have been trodden on?

I guess the way to tell he's penitent is to see how he is with the elders tonight. It will be all my fault or he'll admit he has a problem with anger/control x

Yeah he's so sorry he was groping you AGAIN just last night.

If it's all about me and what I've done wrong and the elders agree then I guess I know I have to talk to women's aid about leaving ASAP x

I can see why my head is so mashed this morning! Flipping heck

I'm still praying for you.

The way to tell he's penitent is in his actions. Is he asking how you feel, doing his share of housework, wrangling it so you can do something nice while he takes the kids? Or is he stomping around as normal huffing "sorry" like the word physically hurts?