Beautifulwho had to call women's aid

[beautifulwho]

I have taken my debit cards back, my DH was not happy, he was really angry that I wouldn't give him them back 'think of the boys, when you've spent all our money and there's no food for them'. He was pacing, shouting, broke the stair gate by banging it closed and stood in the doorway holding my DS2 not letting me through whilst shouting at me. I asked him to trust me to not spend money as yes this has been an issue (taking boys into town for coffee, getting them a toy etc when feeling low) not massive amounts but we don't have massive amounts of spare cash.

He wouldn't leave for work and was incensed that I wouldn't give the cards back. I kept praying whilst he was shouting for strength and he text the pastor's wife before driving off to work telling her I had stolen my cards and was planning on going on a spending spree. She said there is not a lot they can do if we can't resolve arguments by ourselves but they will come over tomorrow afternoon. I told her how he behaved but she wasn't bothered really, exasperated probably. I'm shakin and crying and so alone I don't know what to do. No-one to contact for impartial advice so I called women's aid and they will call back when a volunteer is free...sorry for another one of these threads but I just feel so mixed up. He said I wa on a downer and not making sense and not answering his questions. I'm lost again x

I know Beautiful.....

they have a responsibility for church discipline and they are not living up to their brief...we all too are sinners and fall short....but that does not mean that you can't call a halt to it. Educate them later (or not).

we are here for you

teeth also itching!

you know the church also condoned slavery...but it doesn't now!

Not all churches are the same. My side are pretty laissez fairs about it (91yo gran goes for the company, CofE). Dp was brought up 7th Day Adventist, MIL and SIL still attend. I have a mix of religious and sacrilegious friends.

What you are going through would horrify any member of any congregation I have met. My Reverend (I was at school with his kids) would have you out of there and pour hellfire and damnation on your H's immortal soul - he's as mild mannered a CofE bumbler as you'll ever meet. Mil's pastor would do the same, just more charismatically and probably involving better hymns.

When Eve was tempted, did God beat and humiliate her? When Sarah was barren all those years did Abraham stop her going down the well to chat to the other village women, did he stick it in anyway just to prove his dominance? God wouldn't have granted them Isaac if he'd raped her!

Joseph chose not to publicly humiliate Mary even when he didn't understand how his virgin bride was pregnant....

If you all think it's bad and I've described it as close to detail as I can why do I feel like I've been brainwashed into thinking it's no big deal? Like it happens to everyone and all men and women have issues? Why can't I just see all of this for what it is? I have always said that I would never ever be in an abusive relationship not after all the ones I witnessed as a child. What went wrong or am I just swing something that isn't there?

Because you've been in similarly abusive relationships since birth and have no other way to view yourself.

I'm normally a massive advocate of taking responsibility, but in your case it really is everybody else!

Where-ish are you, one of us might be about to meet you for coffee? I'm in Hampshire...

Turn it around - when you're in the middle of the situation, why are placing an expectation on yourself that you can have an objective, neutral take on it? Denial is a survival mechanism that stops you from being overwhelmed. After you've left, the true horror will dawn on you little by little, when it's safe for it to leak out.

I read the Bible, I (very occasionally) go to church, I believe, really believe.

tentatively, can I suggest another view point - that what your husband has done is a criminal offence. It isn't just a church discipline matter. If a stranger had done to you what your husband has done and will continue to do, you would go to the police and be right to do so. It is okay to feel upset and unhappy about it, and you should not feel that you have to defend your feelings. The law of the land recognises you are right to feel upset.

I am saying the stuff about the legal bits, because you are so used to having the ground shift beneath your feet that you don't seem able to trust your own feelings or judgement. You are reaching to outside validation and justification. Your husband is in the wrong and doing bad things, and that is validated by the law of the land. I hope this is a view point that helps.

I think that you should chase every avenue of support, including all different denominations of church, and the church is a good place to go because you are comfortable within the religious framework. A good church is a safe place for everyone.

I am still praying for you.

Also, good for you for reaching out to humour - sometimes it is the only thing that can get us through.

Good post, Lyssa :)

x post

If for years and years and years you have been told that your judgement is no good, how do you learn to trust it? If you have only ever been exposed to abusive relationships, how do you recognise a good one? You feel more comfortable with the signals in an abusive relationship, especially when they are low level at the start, because it what you are used to, familiar and probably what you saw in the 'good' part of the abusive cycle.

It really isn't you. It really is not your fault, and you should hold your head up high and be proud of yourself for recognising that this is wrong, that when your pastor doesn't intervene it is still wrong and that you think it needs to change. That takes courage and strength of will and character.

Keep looking for validation in places where your husband is not comfy and settled in, like here, womensaid, legal sources - your own inner voice that has almost been stifled. Still praying for you.

PurplePidjin - thanks - so worried to try and find the right words for Beautifulwho.

Maybe you're not seeing things for exactly how bad they are because you're trying not to face up to reality, protecting yourself and your dc's?

How much more can you take? Your DH isn't going to change or stop this behaviour until he realises how wrong he is, and that's not going to happen unless he sees some serious consequences to his behaviour. Your dh and your church aren't recognising how bad this really is, they aren't going to stop it or change it, you need to make it happen and there are plenty of people here who will help guide you through it.

You wanted some time away but he's the one being abusive, he should me the one that leaves to give you all a break and time to think.

I am an evangelical conservative Christian. I promised (and genuinely try) to submit to my husband when we married because I really believe that's what the Bible teaches.

But that submission goes in partnership with my husband loving me as Christ loved the church, giving himself up for her, loving me as he loves himself. This does not include domestic violence or cruelty.

To say that you need to stay in an abusive relationship is not following God's word and every church I've been part of would very much support you and your children. There would be church discipline for the husband, but that would probably go hand in hand with encouraging you to speak to the police.

Thank you ladies, i can see the wood from the trees, it helps to think about my situation from afar as when i add church and feelings I just think i'm being silly. Ok just to help me and if it's not too much trouble for someone and so it is clear for when the elder and his wife come to see us both; what have I said that sounds like domestic violence/abusive in this relationship? Sorry to be dim but I think I am going to have to spell it out for them and I don't want to sound like an overreacting nagging wife x

I will try and say what my DH will say to cover himself too x

beautiful you are not crazy & you are not imagining this. when one person withholds the property of another person, shouts at them and intimidates them, that is a crime. both on a legal and a spiritual level.

there are no two ways about that.

you don't see it because you are depressed, beaten down, afraid and you wish it would all just go away. of course you do. this situation is unbearable, why would you want it to be so?

your H is committing crimes against you regularly in your marriage. that is not something you are imagining.

my H has never ever ever ever ever treated me like this. he has shouted at me in an argument maybe... twice? three times? in eight years.

he has never taken anything away from me. he has NEVER called me a name, or told me i was crazy, or stood in my way to prevent me from leaving a room. he has also NEVER done anything with/to me without my consent - whether sexually or otherwise. he doesn't even tickle me without asking!

i am SO proud of you that you rang WA. things will get better, just hold on and stick to your guns.

think of your kids if nothing else. you've got to get them out of this toxic environment. you can't risk them growing up thinking this is normal.

Personally, I don't think it's the pastor's business but it's your decision to include them.

I would prepare very carefully. "DH did X. This is abusive and unchristian. Y parable expressly advises us against this behaviour. This has caused Z reaction." Write a list of points you wish to discuss and the outcome you expect. Decide what you will and won't compromise on - eg he may only contact you at certain times, and only regarding dc.

Remain very calm and dispassionate. Ice maiden yourself. Sob and wail afterwards by all means, but emotion will be taken as weakness and you are not weak.

State your point then stfu! (I struggle with this) leave silence for them to fill, this will also show your strength.

I won't be able to stay in the house, it's in his name, where will I go? What happens if I have to leave. I'm really not looking forward to him coming home 6pm, what if he starts again?

I will start thinking about it tonight purple I know I'm going to be labelled the bad guy in this, it will be seen as me leaving him, me sinning, he's he innocent party :-(

I also think that I struggle to think about this whole situation, his behaviour over a prolonged amount of time because I've learnt to forgive him and start again each time. The more I think the more I realise how immature he is

Which is why you need solid evidence of how he has gone against his wedding vows and the Bible.

I am the LORD thy God
1 Thou shalt have no other gods
2 No graven images or likenesses
3 Not take the LORD's name in vain - has he ever sworn at you?
4 Remember the sabbath day
5 Honour thy father and thy mother - he should honour you as mother of his dc
6 Thou shalt not kill
7 Thou shalt not commit adultery
8 Thou shalt not steal - your bank cards taken against your wishes
9 Thou shalt not bear false witness - he lies to you, yes?
10 Thou shalt not covet

Which vows did you take when you married? Cos he sure as feck ain't loving, cherishing or honoring you!

You clearly have a brain - use it to defend yourself. Find the evidence and back it up.

Hi beautiful I am so sorry you are having such a horrific time of it your Husband sounds such a cowadly bully to me. You need to seek legal advice as soon as possible to protect yourself and you DC.

You are a better person than I am forgiving him time and time again.

xx

You mean, when he was repeatedly raping you? Just on what you described could mean a prison sentence.

Shouting at you and putting you in fear - someone will be along with the correct terminology, but that is a form of assault. Refusing to allow you to leave a room, that's a flag that would be of interest to the local domestic abuse team, and I think there are criminal laws against that, but don't know their names. Then there's your cards - the womensaid people or police in the local domestic violence unit could probably make a loooong list of the right words, the statues, the clauses - but the biggy is the rape.

And having sex with someone either asleep or incapacitated for some reason is legally defined as rape, even within a marriage. That has been the legal position for several years. Having sex when you are unable to consent when you have previously stated that you do not want this - unequivocal rape. Your pastor needs to think how his conscience squares with that - and it is his failings, not yours.

Sorry if this sounds harsh. You are being told over and over again things by people who you should be able to trust and who should have your interests at heart that you are in the wrong. However lots and lots of people who are not part of your husband's small circle, and the law of the land, think you are right. The part of you that your husband is trying to silence knows that you are right. But I am not trying to underplay how desperately difficult it is to get past the words from people who say that they love you and are telling you that they are acting in your best interests. And the awful feeling that the only ones close to you that you have trusted in the past and you have had faith in are not acting in your best interests but their own. And that your pain and distress are less important to them than appearances.

I suppose if you want to try and use humour, you could always try imagining your pastor in frilly pink knickers and a bra. We are all human, we all make mistakes, and some of us fail at some point. Your pastor is not infallible, and I think does not understand what is going on. Normal people do not understand how someone like your husband can behave the way he does, they cope by minimising it, trying to believe that it isn't as awful, dreadful, viciously unpleasant as it is.

I've spent a lot of time writing this, with lots of praying, and I think you are worth it and a lot more. I am sure that I have cross posted with lots of other wise words. Please take some comfort - so many of us think you have far more value than you are allowing yourself.

I am praying for you - I hope my words are helpful.

Just about to press post, saw a bit about where you go - if it gets awful, call the police, have a mobile charged and handy and on you. After his performance this morning, if you rang 101 now, asked for the domestic abuse unit and asked for your address to be flagged so that they came quickly if necessary, they would not think you were over-reacting - it is that bad! If you are married you are legally entitled to a proportion of all property/savings/pension and don't let anyone talk you out of it. And you can go to somewhere like a refuge. Hope someone comes on with better advice soon. And sorry for the looooooong post - just hope some of it helps.

But he could say the same for me? I have sworn at him, I gave him my cards, he's saying I stole them off of him

I think I could use the honouring parents but he could use that against me too as he'll say that if I leave then that's the biggest disrespect there is and the elders will agree.

No other God's- I could use as he it's clear he serves his anger and his lust

Think of your trespasses against him. Has he forgiven you for them or does he throw them in your face?

You are the pearl of great price, is he treating you as such?

Blimey, didn't know I knew all this! Funny how it seeps into your consciousness!