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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Beautifulwho had to call women's aid

271 replies

beautifulwho · 25/04/2012 09:25

I have taken my debit cards back, my DH was not happy, he was really angry that I wouldn't give him them back 'think of the boys, when you've spent all our money and there's no food for them'. He was pacing, shouting, broke the stair gate by banging it closed and stood in the doorway holding my DS2 not letting me through whilst shouting at me. I asked him to trust me to not spend money as yes this has been an issue (taking boys into town for coffee, getting them a toy etc when feeling low) not massive amounts but we don't have massive amounts of spare cash.

He wouldn't leave for work and was incensed that I wouldn't give the cards back. I kept praying whilst he was shouting for strength and he text the pastor's wife before driving off to work telling her I had stolen my cards and was planning on going on a spending spree. She said there is not a lot they can do if we can't resolve arguments by ourselves but they will come over tomorrow afternoon. I told her how he behaved but she wasn't bothered really, exasperated probably. I'm shakin and crying and so alone I don't know what to do. No-one to contact for impartial advice so I called women's aid and they will call back when a volunteer is free...sorry for another one of these threads but I just feel so mixed up. He said I wa on a downer and not making sense and not answering his questions. I'm lost again x

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PurplePidjin · 25/04/2012 17:27

You have another option, if you can bear it - act penitent, be a good little wifey and make plans. Then one day in a week or two you simply vanish to a refuge. Could you do that?

beautifulwho · 25/04/2012 17:28

LyssaM thank you so much I will read and re read what you have said. I'm cooking dinner at the minute and the boys have been clingy all day Sad I agree with all you've put except the rape, does indecent assault count? I say that as there has never been of penetration whilst asleep, except once but I consented um eventually HmmConfused

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oikopolis · 25/04/2012 17:30

you gave him your cards
then you took your cards back.
that is not stealing.

it doesn't matter if the house is in his name, it's the family home and is part of the marital assets. you are entitled to it. you NEED to talk to a solicitor, you are making incorrect assumptions that may force you, unnecessarily, to stay in this marriage when you are depressed and beaten down.

beautifulwho · 25/04/2012 17:32

purple I don't think I could no. Just because I couldn't keep up the pretence and it would be awful for the boys- he would be awful x

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GingerBlondecat · 25/04/2012 17:36

Sweetheart, My Church would back you up and encourage you to press charges.

You YOU have done nothing to be ashamed of.

God loves you and will help you and protect you if you let him.

God's messangers and helpers are the Police, the Prosectors, the Vicim Help lines, and the good people that fight against the abuse of woman.

GingerBlondecat · 25/04/2012 17:41

I am posting from Australia, so please forgive me if I do not call the different agencies by the correct name.

If I may 'Beautifulwho' I will pray for you and your situation and your family.

(((Hugs, Tears, hearts, Strenght, clear sight, Thoughts and Prayer)))) for You Beautifulwho.

Olympia2012 · 25/04/2012 17:45

Our town has a fabulous refuge run by a Christian charity..... Someone in your church really should know who to approach! I had a friend who went to this hostel, she was given details at the lical council office

You have choices

beautifulwho · 25/04/2012 18:05

He'll be home soon, boys eating dinner apparently chilli and tortilla's are ick, thanks DS HmmWink eat your cucumber and zip it! X

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MigratingCoconuts · 25/04/2012 18:24

just read the thread and feeling very Sad for you.

Just remember that it doesn't matter one little bit what other people believe, think or say.

The only thing that matters is that you know the truth and you act on what you know in your heart to be right.

I feel you are struggling to square what you feel is right with what you have always been told by your husband. He is wrong!!!

Please do keep posting, we are all thinking of you and wishing for you goodness and justice.

LyssaM · 25/04/2012 18:39

Penetration after repeated bullying and nagging and hassle is penetration after coercion - rape. Even if it is 'giving in for a quiet life'. It is sex when the person hassling for it knows that you do not want sex. That's pretty icky.

Repeated sexual assault against your expressed wishes - criminal act.

And how can you 'steal' something that belongs to you? Legally they are yours!

You know, I don't think this meeting is a good idea. This is me being in haste and badgered by cat and little boy but this is my thoughts.

Your horrific husband, the pastor and the pastor's wife are all saying that you should put up with forced sex and sexual assault without any access to money and to put up with verbal abuse and threats. You are used to them being in a position of authority, you are used to believing them, you don't have the language or the experience to challenge what they say. You have no history of challenging people in authority of you - and it is soooo hard if you have a background of submitting in situations like this.

To me, your horrific husband is surreal, like a Monty Python sketch, complaining that you stole YOUR bank cards. To me it is a non question, it's not connected to any reality and I would refuse to dignify it with any form of discussion. I would not feel I need to justify taking them. (please tell me you have them in a safe place, or you won't have them for long!) I think you feel you need to justify keeping something that's yours - and you don't. You feel you need to justify being upset at repeated sexual assault, verbal abuse and threats. You are right to be upset, if you weren't then there would be something wrong! The problem is not with you!

However they could run rings round you, make you doubt yourself even more, make you suffer even more distress, convince you to stay longer for more assaults, more verbal violence and more and more horrific examples of behaviour for your children to learn from. I think that you should say that you are only willing to have this discussion with someone like an outreach worker from a domestic abuse charity present.

You do not have to accept this discussion. You do not have to accept that they know what they are talking about. You do not have to accept their version of right and wrong. It is like they hold up a bright orange mandarin in front of you and tell you that the apple is blue. It is not about submitting under God. It not about rules. It is about your right to feel safe, respected and loved.

My advice, fwiw - if you feel backed in a corner, keep repeating like a stuck record - you cannot steal something that belongs to you, you can only reclaim it. And repeated sexual assault is a criminal act and you are instructed in the Bible to submit to temporal authority. You will not agree to anything binding until you have had a chance to pray about it.

I am sorry, this is like a novel. and also, fwiw, I prayed before I wrote this, that I would write things to help. Doesn't mean that I think that this is all perfect, all correct and should be followed to the letter. It means I have done my best, and have prayed for help, but I know I am a weak human. I could have got things wrong. So can your pastor. Still praying.

McNaughty · 25/04/2012 18:41

I?ve just read this thread and it really makes me so sad to read that someone who is reaching out for help from those she trusts is being badly let down.

I agree with everyone who is telling you that your DH is abusive towards you and you are currently don?t have the strength to make decisions and see what his behaviour is doing to you. I have a lot of experience of dealing with people involved in the Church and whilst there are many fantastic resources out there and exceptional support teams, there are also people who are way out of their depth and should really step back and guide you towards professional help.

Your Pastor and his wife, however well meaning, do seem to either be blind to what you are telling them, or believe some kind of twisted version of the Bible which condemns women in your circumstances to an on-going private hell. They may have religious training and strong beliefs, but do they have any insight into abuse and mental health and its consequences? What your DH is doing to you is unacceptable in every sense and dressing it up with some religious moral code is plainly wrong. Please don?t believe that in some way you deserve this kind of treatment.

I have seen occasions (many years ago) where there have been gross misconduct by people in positions of authority and the Church at that time was completely unable to address it? so it got swept under the carpet only to re-emerge years later. Sometimes people?s best intentions only make the abuse worse. This is what seems to be happening to you.

Use the resources you have: Home-Start, Women?s Aid and use their strength to take steps towards a better future for yourself and your children. You deserve better and so do they.

beautifulwho · 25/04/2012 20:02

Thank you for your lovely messages, DH is sat across the room reading 4 bibles, yes 4, first time I've seen crack open a bible in a while? What on earth is he doing that for? And I'm intrigued as to which passage he's reading? HmmConfused

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beautifulwho · 25/04/2012 20:09

lyssa I will write a list of some of the things he's done to remind the elders why I'm struggling to live with him. I know that my DH will try and turn this all round on me. I'm not sure I should mention leaving him until the lady from women's aid has been as I think it will really screw with my husbands head if I say I'm taking the boys and if he reacts badly to me taking my cards; imagine what he'll do if he finds out I'm taking his DS's away for a bit, it will not be pretty and if I do go then it will definitely be whilst he's at work x

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beautifulwho · 25/04/2012 20:16

Ever feel like your living with two people, he's doing a bible study on worship leading?! Hmm

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neuroticmumof3 · 25/04/2012 20:24

Whatever you do, don't let the church people know you're speaking to women's aid. You can't trust them not to tell him. It would be dangerous for him to find out, at the very least he would increase his control over you, at the worst he could physically assault you.

Dozer · 25/04/2012 20:26

Beautiful, glad you're posting again, hang in there to meet women's aid.

please be careful, the abuse could escalate if you reveal your plans. You don't have to justify yourself to him or these elders, or your family, who have failed to protect you and DS, and they can't / won't help you right now. Remember the info on your other thread on planning to leave, safely?

If you leave and seek help, there WILL be people who will help, at WA, benefits advisors, health professionals, kind people somewhere in this or another church. There are many of us here thinking about you and hoping you can get away.

Dozer · 25/04/2012 20:28

Agree with neurotic, unfortunately the way these church people are handling things is increasing the risk to you, please look at the information and wait for WA, don't tell them or anyone, they will advise.

NettleTea · 25/04/2012 20:30

beautiful - get yourself onto BBC i player and watch Divine Women, part 2. See how the men pulled the wool over our eyes in the name of religion, and see the true origins of the Christian faith.
Then get yourself a good councillor, a safe refuge and a copy of the book 'the creation of patriarchy'

Then see if you still feel the same about how you should be submitting to him.......

struwelpeter · 25/04/2012 20:43

If your homestart volunteer is pretty new, then ask her very gently if you can talk to her boss or supervisor as you need a bit more support.
She will have done some training about DV, child protection etc. And don't know how homestart is organised in your area but in mine it comes through the CofE diocese. Just like in any walk of life - your pastor will have strength in some areas and not in others. Hope he has the humility to judge whether he is out of his depth in this and can point you to others who are able to take a more objective or longterm viewpoint.

foolonthehill · 25/04/2012 20:45

Nettle I'm not sure about dissing the poster's beliefs because her OH is a poor excuse for a man??

Beautiful. You know what I think and you know my story (or part of it any way).

Your church authorities are not handling this with wisdom. Sometimes the church has to learn from worldly wisdom and then interpret it with biblical wisdom. We cannot just spray paint Bible texts onto a situation that we do not fully comprehend.

I would suggest that as they have no knowledge and have probably not spent many hours in the Bible looking at the fundamentals of mutual submission, Christ-like headship and real mortal danger in marriage they are not a good resource for you. There are some good resources out here.....but now maybe you just need to get to somewhere safe before you work all this out.

My heart goes out to you as you struggle with a Godly way forward and you OH smugly piles up 4 (4!!!!) bibles as if to say look I can't be that bad...he's fogging, trying to make yourself doubt what you know to be true.

Beautiful the truth can set you free. hold on to that truth and know that you are being prayed for and I hope you can be brave enough to draw that line in the sand.

Christ died for you...you are worth that much, don't waste what he has given you

JennyPiccolo · 25/04/2012 20:45

Beautiful, do yourself and your boys a favour and say fuck the pastor. You need to get out of this cycle of abuse, and your not going to find solace with people who think you should be putting up with it.

There are other lives you can live, if you choose to. It will be hard, but you need a better perspective than these people. They don't represent christianity and they should be ashamed.

beautifulwho · 25/04/2012 22:05

he's trying to get his leg over AngryHmm

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NettleTea · 25/04/2012 22:06

Im not trying to diss her beliefs FOTH, I am trying to tell her that this 'men rule, submit to your husband' stuff was created by man, not god, and certainly wasnt practiced by the early Christians. And there are plenty of denominations of christian belief who do not believe that a woman should suffer at he hands of her husband.

beautifulwho · 25/04/2012 22:22

nettle it is in the bible, men and women are equal but women should submit to their godly DH.

Not sure how this works but husband is now trying it on being all loving, I've told him to leave me alone, he asked 'why?' DID THIS MORNING HAPPEN? This is why I feel so brainwashed and overreactive!

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BartletForAmerica · 25/04/2012 23:06

nettle, this is not the place to tear down someone's beliefs. Many people do believe that this submission (and it is mutual submission that is taught) was created by God and that we can see this through the whole Bible. You don't agree. That's fine, but not helpful here.

I've not read everything on this webpage but I wonder if it might be helpful for you, beautiful. Do you have any good Christian friends you can talk this through with?

www.abigails.org/Studies/Overview.htm

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