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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

As my user name indicates...(long, sorry)

185 replies

needsomeperspective · 24/04/2012 08:18

I want to write this all down so that I can get some perspective on my marriage. I feel so tangled up in my mind I just don't know what is reasonable or not anymore.

My husband and I have been married 3 years, together 4, and are in our mid / late 30s. We have 2 small children. I work full time, my husband stays at home with the children - this is purely down to financial pragmatism.

There are a number of issues in our marriage which I am finding difficult to handle.

Top of the list is my husband's moods and anger. There was a time when DH and I used to have a laugh together although he has never been easy going, always a worrier and always had anger issues. When we first got together he would fly into irrational rages induced by jealousy, percieved criticism, general "stress" etc. This rage sometimes got to the point of physical aggression (grabbing, choking, hair pulling, screaming inches from face etc.) although he has never hit me or actually caused me physical pain - just fear.

He was prescribed anti-anxiety meds 3 years ago which helped hugely with this issue and it only tended to re-emerge when he was extremely drunk or when he missed his pills for a couple of days. Still not ideal, but I could live with it. However, he came off his anti-anxiety medication at the New Year which correlates with the decline in his mental state. Over the last few months his moodiness and misery have re-emerged and he has become increasingly difficult to live with. He is short tempered, never seems happy, tuts and sighs at pretty much everything I do and we never seem to enjoy ourselves. I would LOVE to go for just one single day with him being consistently happy, cordial and engaging. It seems like forever since that happened.

I also DREAD him going out drinking (which to be fair happens very seldom now) because I'm scared of what state / mood he will be in when he comes home. He has a hair trigger and I have to be very careful not to set him off if I speak to him when he comes in after a night out. He also tends to get himself so obliterated that he loses keys / phone / wallet / can't find his way home / gets into fights / rings the doorbell / rings the home phone and wakes the babies. We have fought about this issue for our whole relationship but the only change he has made is to go out less often - he seems to be incapable of moderating his alcohol intake when he does go out. The last time this happened I abaolutely lost it and told him I couldn't take this any more and I wanted him to leave and could he move to the spare room. Cue 3 days of stonewalling from him before I broke down and apologised to HIM for what I'd said. No apology from him to me for anything.

I appreciate that he is very stressed being stuck at home with the babies all the time, plus we have financial worries and my job situation is insecure.

He has said he "didn't imagine his life would be like this" and I think in many ways regrets that we have the children (although he loves them to bits) and that our lifestyle is so confined and child-centric. He has said that he often wishes we could just be the two of us again, but I can't change things back now can I?!

Another issue is our sex life. We tend to have sex quite infrequently - once every 2 weeks or so on average. Occasionally more, sometimes less. I would have sex every day if I could, I crave the intimacy of our early years when I felt close to him and sex is the only thing right now which even comes close to bringing back that illusion for me. He however has said that he has a low sex drive and will never want it as much as I do. So we compromise. Or rather I just wait for him to initiate it - which isn't often. When we do have sex it is usually pretty perfunctory - rarely any kissing or touching outside of the obvious areas and no real feeling of intimacy or joy between us. I get the very strong feeling he only does it to keep me from getting too unhappy and to stave off a row not because he actually has any desire for me at all.

I shall add here that I have put on a good deal of weight with the babies which I am now trying to lose. He has never once complained about my weight or body and has told me he loves me for ME and doesn't care what I weigh. But equally when I confessed to him how much I am struggling to come to terms with my post-baby body he said and did nothing to reassure me. He never looks at and rarely touches my body which makes me want to hide it. I should add that he also has gained weight and feels very insecure about himself physically (he used to play a lot of sports competitively and was in excellent shape so notices a real difference in himself). He is extremely good looking but considers himself to be physically unattractive - this is just part of a much deeper lack of self-confidence and self-esteem.

I do not feel loved and supported right now and am struggling to communicate with my H about the changes I feel we need to make. He usually takes any such discussion as deeply offensive personal criticism and will consequently sulk, stonewall, speak angrily ("everything is all my fault again I see") or even fly into a rage despite my pleas to hold a reasonable constructive conversation. I want him to go back to the doctor and maybe try some different meds to see if they can iron out some of the unwelcome side effects of his previous pills (lethargy, tiredness, lack of libido). He says he will but still hasn't made an appointment - his reasons are he is worried we can't afford it or the babies have been too demanding for him to make a phone call. If I remind him he makes me feel like I am nagging / hounding him relentlessly.

Where do I go from here? Joint counselling?

OP posts:
Bucharest · 24/04/2012 08:21

So, are there any good bits?

Or is it all as shit as you have described?

If this were my relationship then it would already be too late for counselling.

squeakytoy · 24/04/2012 08:24

where do you go from here? as far from him as possible would be my answer to be honest...

throughout your relationship you have been treading on tiptoes around him to accomodate his moods... that is not healthy..

needsomeperspective · 24/04/2012 08:32

Not many right now to be honest, no. But the potential remins for things to be good as the positives certainly outweighed the negatives when he was on his meds. He was much more affcetionate, kind, calm and loving.

OP posts:
needsomeperspective · 24/04/2012 08:33

I know its a repeating refrain on here but " don;t want him to leave I want him to change" hollow laugh

OP posts:
squeakytoy · 24/04/2012 08:40

The sad thing is though, some people do not change, they are the way they are.

you say..

he has never been easy going, always a worrier and always had anger issues. When we first got together he would fly into irrational rages induced by jealousy, percieved criticism, general "stress" etc. This rage sometimes got to the point of physical aggression (grabbing, choking, hair pulling, screaming inches from face etc.) although he has never hit me or actually caused me physical pain - just fear.

This is not a man whose behaviour has changed since you met him, this is a man who you have become used to and you have adapted your behaviour to suit his moods.

This is not a young bloke, this is a man approaching middle age who has probably spent most of his adult life behaving this way. I very much doubt he is going to change, and the hair pulling and choking IS physical violence.

I feel you are making excuses for his behaviour, but from what you have posted his behaviour is inexcusable. If you did not have children with this man, would you still be with him?

Bucharest · 24/04/2012 08:45

Jeez, I missed the bit about the choking and hair pulling.

In whose book is that not physical violence?

"He was much more affectionate, calm, kind and loving" Well, he would have been hard pressed to be less so, wouldn't he?

Hitch your skirts up and run my love. This one isn't going to change. The only one who is, hopefully, is you.

needsomeperspective · 24/04/2012 08:47

Probably so Squeaky, sadly. I have a history of hanging onto a relationship's icy corpse until it has to be pried out of my relentless iron grip. I was brought up to believe that hard work can fix anything and a responsibility once undertaken is not renounceable.

OP posts:
needsomeperspective · 24/04/2012 08:50

Would anyone not metaphorically kick me in the head if I were to say "but he's a really good Dad". He does most of the housework too...

On the other hand he hates our pets with a visceral loathing. Wants fish as they are less messy...

OP posts:
Bucharest · 24/04/2012 08:57

He's not a really good dad because he is treating the mother of his children like shit on his shoe. And I bet he does the housework because he's a control freak who reckons you can't or won't do it to his exacting standards.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 24/04/2012 08:57

What do you get out of this relationship now?.

What are you both teaching your children about relationships here?. Damaging lessons are being imparted to them by both of you.

Joint counselling is a complete non starter given the history of abuse. No decent counsellor would see the two of you together under any circs.

You have tiptoed around him and changed you to suit him from the very beginning. You probably thought you could rescue and or save him somehow by showing him that your love for him was enough to undo his inherent damage. he was never yours to rescue and or save besides I do not think he wants to be saved.

If you are considering counselling I would go on my own to undo the damaging lessons you learnt perhaps from your own childhood in relation to hanging onto a relationship's icy corpse along with the fallacy that hard work can fix anything. It cannot fix a dying marriage and this relationship had red flags all over it from the get go.

squeakytoy · 24/04/2012 08:58

Family life is not just being a good dad though. He has to be a good husband too. Which he isnt, and rarely has been by your account. You deserve better.

Hard work has to be a two sided thing. It is no good you putting all the hard work in, and him carrying on however he feels. You are just wasting your energy.

And (although this is my own personal view entirely), anyone who "hates" pets usually has a cruel streak in them.

It sounds as though your children are still very young, how will he cope with them as they grow up and become more demanding and more vocal, and not as compliant with his demands? Will he become agressive with them, or will he take that out on you too?

He really does not sound like a good man to be with I'm afraid.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 24/04/2012 09:01

"Would anyone not metaphorically kick me in the head if I were to say "but he's a really good Dad". He does most of the housework too...

On the other hand he hates our pets with a visceral loathing".
Now why do you think that is?.

Such men are never good fathers to their children if they are prepared to treat the mother of their children with such contempt and ill feeling. He does not want the responsibility of pets, he quite likely regards them as yours and your responsibility alone to look after. Hating animals is yet another red flag.

CocoLePew · 24/04/2012 09:05

How can he be a good Dad when he treats the mother of his children so bad? Flying into rages, huffing, not enjoying family days out. personally I would ask him to leave. The fact that his behaviour is deterioating and he has physically assualted you in the past doesn't say to me that this can be resolved.

You are trying to see good where there, sadly, doesn't seem to be any.

oldwomaninashoe · 24/04/2012 09:23

The not knowing when to stop drinking would be a killer for me. This shows someone who has got no self control and it would worry me.
That is not the behaviour that one expects from someone who is supposedly mature.

needsomeperspective · 24/04/2012 09:28

I try to understand the underlying reasons for his behaviour and in this case it is down to a history of seriously violent childhood abuse and (probably consequential) mental health issues - which are treatable as evidenced by the fact that his behaviour improves dramatically when he is on medication.

I don't believe that because someone has been damaged by repeated abuse at the hands of someone who should have been a trusted care giver it means they are unworthy of a loving relationship. In many ways I feel my husband is MORE deserving of love, understanding and support now because of the things he has suffered in his life. I feel by caring for him and trying to make his life happy I am in some way redressing the balance.

I do however accept that he is an adult now and needs to make more of an effort to try to re-learn what is "normal" behaviour and address the issues his abusive childhood caused. I think that CBT combined with medication would be the most pragmatic way for him to go about addressing his problems but he is reluctant to attend counselling. He did for a while before - the "talk about your childhood" kind - but it was sporadic (and very expensive) and didn't seem to help much.

By the way I do NOT think his moodiness has negtatively impacted our children. He is able to out on a smiley face and be playful and loving with them even when he is moody and at the edge of anger with me. On only one occasion has he lost his temper in front of the babies and I made it 100% clear that if he ever did it again he would be permenantly out of the house in seconds.

OP posts:
Seabright · 24/04/2012 09:33

If you made him an appointment at the doctors, at a time when you can be at home to look after the children, would he go?

If he would and you think new meds would help, then do it. You will have tried everything then.

One thing to bear in mind if you seperate - he's the primary carer for the children, so he's likely to get residence and you'd be the one paying maintenance.

I'm not commenting on the right/wrong of this, just pointing out how the situation may go, on the facts you have given

squeakytoy · 24/04/2012 09:34

Good luck then, as I think you will need it.

:(

MagsAloof · 24/04/2012 09:46

It all sounds appalling. And you have been together for such a short time, really, yet it is this bad.

He sounds abusive, immature and just horrid. I felt sick when you said his physical aggression 'hasn't caused you physical pain, just fear'.

Seriously, what is in this for you? Why are you trying so desperately hard to 'understand him'? He sounds awful.

I also think you are seriously misguided if you think this wont affect your children.

I would urge you to have a long hard rethink about where you go from here. If you get out now or soon, the impact on your kids and your life will be minimal. Leave it another 5 or 10 yrs, and it will be much, much harder.

SucksToBeMe · 24/04/2012 09:47

OP, Everybody above me is making a lot of sense. I hope its all sinking in. Though i think they may just be confirming what you know already.

MyNameIsInigoMontoya · 24/04/2012 09:48

The thing is, he clearly doesn't want to change, or to treat you any better.

If he wanted to change, he would keep up his medication, and go to counselling. If he wanted to change, he would make some attempt to limit his drinking. If he cared about you, he would show some remorse when he has hurt or abused you, and then do whatever it took not to repeat it.

He sounds like a perfectly horrible person who is quite happy to stay that way.

Are you not worried about him being alone with your DCs all day? How long till he starts manhandling them or flying into rages with them (all their fault obviously, because they "pushed him too far" Hmm). Also don't believe your children will be fooled by him "putting on a smiley face", I am sure they will be able to feel the anger simmering underneath. Do you really want them to grow up walking on eggshells as well?

I know it's a lot easier said than done. But it sounds to me as though the only thing to do is leave. He has brought it on himself by his violence and aggression.

needsomeperspective · 24/04/2012 09:56

Yes he would go seabright.

We don't live in the UK so its unlikely he would get residency (nor do I think he would want it, if I'm honest).

What would end up happening if we split is that I would get a Nanny to help with the children while I was at work and he would go back to work which would involve weeks away at a time and serious financial difficulties for all of us given the cost of housing out here.

Or move back to his home country to work and see the children high days and holidays.

Not an ideal situation is it?

Which is why I want to be sure we have tried everything. If I were to ask him to leave (seriously not just as a shock tactic) the situation would have to be seriously unendurable OR negatively impacting the kids.

Hence seeking some outside perspective on whether other people would deem this marriage "unendurable". At this point I'm not there yet but getting closer to it if his behaviour doesn't improve soon.

And yes, sometimes I do worry about him being on his own with the children all day. But not because I think he would ever HURT them - but because I do believe he is capable of being angry, moody and generally unloving, unfun and unlikely to engage with them in a positive way at all times - which is the ideal standard I would expect from a caregiver.

OP posts:
NicknameTaken · 24/04/2012 09:57

As a first step, I think you need to do some reading - Lundy Bancroft's "Why does he do that?" and Susan Forward's "Women who love too much". You can't love him out of his childhood damage.

He is abusive. Choking is very serious abuse - never consider it to be somehow lesser than a punch. It's life-threatening and you are minimizing it.

I'd normally say cut and run, but I'm worried about the fact that he is the primary care-giver for your dcs. You don't want a situation where this damaged man ends up with residence. You need good legal advice about this.

I'm sure someone will come along and say I'm rushing to conclusions of abuse. Choking is very, very serious physical abuse. And walking on eggshells is a classic sign of someone being abused.

Need, I've been there - I've tried to love and coax a man out of abusive behaviour, because I thought he was good deep down and he needed my love even more because of his childhood suffering. It doesn't work like that. You end up enabling your own abuse and allowing your dcs to grow up in a horrible environment. You can't fix this. I'm a fixer too - I know what it's like to think I'm so tough and strong that I can make this better. You can't. You are minimizing how bad this situation is. You've got to turn your strengthy to protecting your dcs, not to the impossible task of trying to fix him.

NicknameTaken · 24/04/2012 09:58

Ah, typed too slow. I'm really happy residency isn't a problem, but do get legal advice and never under-estimate how far a damaged man will go to get his own back on you.

Prolesworth · 24/04/2012 10:08

Wholeheartedly agree with NicknameTaken's posts. There are huge red flags all over this man. Is such a man (prone to violence and other abusive behaviours, history of severe childhood abuse that he has done little or nothing to address) a suitable person to be the primary carer for two young children?

bringbacksideburns · 24/04/2012 10:15

He sounds very, very hard work and considering you've only been together for four years the relationship sounds very difficult and exhausting and he sounds very selfish.

The rages, choking and grabbing would make me not want to stay tbh.

If you suggested counselling as a last ditch attempt would he even go?

I alos think he needs to go back to work - it might help him focus on things other than himself and his needs and he may then appreciate you more.