As my user name indicates...(long, sorry)

[needsomeperspective]

I want to write this all down so that I can get some perspective on my marriage. I feel so tangled up in my mind I just don't know what is reasonable or not anymore.

My husband and I have been married 3 years, together 4, and are in our mid / late 30s. We have 2 small children. I work full time, my husband stays at home with the children - this is purely down to financial pragmatism.

There are a number of issues in our marriage which I am finding difficult to handle.

Top of the list is my husband's moods and anger. There was a time when DH and I used to have a laugh together although he has never been easy going, always a worrier and always had anger issues. When we first got together he would fly into irrational rages induced by jealousy, percieved criticism, general "stress" etc. This rage sometimes got to the point of physical aggression (grabbing, choking, hair pulling, screaming inches from face etc.) although he has never hit me or actually caused me physical pain - just fear.

He was prescribed anti-anxiety meds 3 years ago which helped hugely with this issue and it only tended to re-emerge when he was extremely drunk or when he missed his pills for a couple of days. Still not ideal, but I could live with it. However, he came off his anti-anxiety medication at the New Year which correlates with the decline in his mental state. Over the last few months his moodiness and misery have re-emerged and he has become increasingly difficult to live with. He is short tempered, never seems happy, tuts and sighs at pretty much everything I do and we never seem to enjoy ourselves. I would LOVE to go for just one single day with him being consistently happy, cordial and engaging. It seems like forever since that happened.

I also DREAD him going out drinking (which to be fair happens very seldom now) because I'm scared of what state / mood he will be in when he comes home. He has a hair trigger and I have to be very careful not to set him off if I speak to him when he comes in after a night out. He also tends to get himself so obliterated that he loses keys / phone / wallet / can't find his way home / gets into fights / rings the doorbell / rings the home phone and wakes the babies. We have fought about this issue for our whole relationship but the only change he has made is to go out less often - he seems to be incapable of moderating his alcohol intake when he does go out. The last time this happened I abaolutely lost it and told him I couldn't take this any more and I wanted him to leave and could he move to the spare room. Cue 3 days of stonewalling from him before I broke down and apologised to HIM for what I'd said. No apology from him to me for anything.

I appreciate that he is very stressed being stuck at home with the babies all the time, plus we have financial worries and my job situation is insecure.

He has said he "didn't imagine his life would be like this" and I think in many ways regrets that we have the children (although he loves them to bits) and that our lifestyle is so confined and child-centric. He has said that he often wishes we could just be the two of us again, but I can't change things back now can I?!

Another issue is our sex life. We tend to have sex quite infrequently - once every 2 weeks or so on average. Occasionally more, sometimes less. I would have sex every day if I could, I crave the intimacy of our early years when I felt close to him and sex is the only thing right now which even comes close to bringing back that illusion for me. He however has said that he has a low sex drive and will never want it as much as I do. So we compromise. Or rather I just wait for him to initiate it - which isn't often. When we do have sex it is usually pretty perfunctory - rarely any kissing or touching outside of the obvious areas and no real feeling of intimacy or joy between us. I get the very strong feeling he only does it to keep me from getting too unhappy and to stave off a row not because he actually has any desire for me at all.

I shall add here that I have put on a good deal of weight with the babies which I am now trying to lose. He has never once complained about my weight or body and has told me he loves me for ME and doesn't care what I weigh. But equally when I confessed to him how much I am struggling to come to terms with my post-baby body he said and did nothing to reassure me. He never looks at and rarely touches my body which makes me want to hide it. I should add that he also has gained weight and feels very insecure about himself physically (he used to play a lot of sports competitively and was in excellent shape so notices a real difference in himself). He is extremely good looking but considers himself to be physically unattractive - this is just part of a much deeper lack of self-confidence and self-esteem.

I do not feel loved and supported right now and am struggling to communicate with my H about the changes I feel we need to make. He usually takes any such discussion as deeply offensive personal criticism and will consequently sulk, stonewall, speak angrily ("everything is all my fault again I see") or even fly into a rage despite my pleas to hold a reasonable constructive conversation. I want him to go back to the doctor and maybe try some different meds to see if they can iron out some of the unwelcome side effects of his previous pills (lethargy, tiredness, lack of libido). He says he will but still hasn't made an appointment - his reasons are he is worried we can't afford it or the babies have been too demanding for him to make a phone call. If I remind him he makes me feel like I am nagging / hounding him relentlessly.

Where do I go from here? Joint counselling?

You will see from my post I did not say "I'm worried that my kids and I are in danger". That's because I'm not worried that we are in danger.

I asked for advice on coping with his moodiness, changes to make to the marriage to try to move it in a more positive direction and out of a downward spiral.

That has started in a small way, I hope, with him re-starting his meds and I'm glad starting this thread gave me the impetus I needed to push that point. I think, as many have suggested on here that counseling would be another positive step - for me as well.

I finish work for a month's gardening leave on Monday so I shall be at home full time to monitor the situation first hand. And also give him some more time to himself.

I see that so far no one has any advice relating to the unsatisfactory sex life part of my post. I wondered if anyone had had partners with anxiety issues / on or off-SSRIs with the same kind of experiences in the bedroom. And how you managed it.

It is your decision, of course, and I understand why you feel you can't just walk out just because internet people say so. You've got a plan of action, you've got a reading list, and I really hope you'll keep a diary and/or get some counselling for yourself. Time will tell.

The only thing you need to be aware of re your judgement call is that it is extremely hard to keep your judgement straight in certain scenarios. I'm sure you've heard the analogy of a frog being boiled alive. The temperature increases so gradually that the frog doesn't even realize, and doesn't hop out when he still can. This is not to cast any aspersions on the quality of your judgement, just to acknowledge that it is very, very easy to normalize unacceptable behaviour by a partner, especially if it only flares up from time to time. I understand your objection to catastrophizing - I think it's people trying to say, "Look, just a few degrees hotter and this is what it looks like!"

From what you've said, your thermometer is not quite as sensitive as it should be. Some of the books recommended may be able to help you re-set it.

I didn't post this hoping for preconcieved feedback. I HOPED that people would ask questions whioch would enable me to examine my situation from as many angles as possible and throw new light or clarity on what was becoming a mire in my mind. That has certainly been the case and its been a very useful exercise.

The sex is not the real problem.

Very good point Nickname and that is one of the reasons I posted. To check the temperature of the water if you like!

No, its a symptom, in more ways than one.

This is such a sad thread.

It seems you think you have sorted the problem now. Until the next time.

Your children may well be being affected by your situation, even though they haven't witnessed the violence. Children are very sensitive to what is unsaid between their parents and they pick up on vibes very easily.

your posts are full of negative words about him - stress anger regret sulk, stonewall, speak angrily rage ecetc. print out his thread and get a highlighter.

then - make a list of his positives .
what you gain from being in the relaionship with him. now.
(not what could be)

he "loves the kids" ?
does he? really? unconditionally? "best thing that ever happened"
"couldnt imagine life without them" how does he demonstrate this? ?

(what you say is he wishes it were just the two of you again... yes being at home with two small children can be hard but that is pretty scary in someone with low mood and low self esteem, and anger issues...who has been inimidating adn scary and manhandled you .... when you think about it - how could he achieve it to be just the two of you again.... ? )

Er... he has an anxiety disorder, as far as I can tell as a lay person he has shown no signs of being a murderous psychopath.

Good exercise. I shall write a list and post it.

Can't help thinking what an unhappy life this seems to be for all of you.

From everything you've said, it just seems overwhelmingly obvious that you and your DH are not made for each other. You said that at the start of your relationship he was jealous, possessive, violent, for which you forgave him. You said that he cheated on you, for which you forgave him. Why would you? How is that a healthy way to start a life together?

You say that though you love him, love was not the main reason you married him. It seems like you have taken this man on as a project, almost - he was broken, and only you have the power to fix him. And you are prepared to work relentlessly to achieve that goal. It all sounds so clinical - you are listing the ways in which you can improve the relationship, drawing up a charter of what you need, what he must do, and hoping to tick it all off - so, taking medications again, tick. Nanny interviewed, tick. Gym membership renewed, tick. Just the sex life to sort out now, then...

Could it be that your relentless determination to succeed at this is actually making the situation worse? Your positivity seems at complete odds with your DH's personality - you say you complement each other, almost like your positivity can cancel out his negative side, but that's clearly not what's happening. Your strength, determination, and relentless 'glass half full' attitude seems to be undermining him.

The bottom line is, he is clearly massively unhappy. Going back on his medication will hopefully give you all a smoother life, but ultimately it seems like the whole situation is making him depressed. I can't imagine many men being happy having every decision taken by their wife - it's hugely emasculating, and yet you've seemingly pushed it in this direction. It's like you want to prove how clever and capable you are, how you can make everything all right, but in doing that you are actually making it more wrong. Someone else said this upthread, but it really seems like you are treating him like a child. And he is behaving like an angry, sulky child in response.

Maybe just think about if this is what you really both want out of life. Because it honestly doesn't have to be like this.

my exp has an anxiety disorder.
he "loved" the DC so i never thought he would take it out on them but he did regret having them (said so, too much stress bla bla bla ) and in throes of anxiety attacks he attacked ds and dd (separate occasions).

so anxiety can trigger unanticipated reactions - you just dont know - he put hands near your throat once. that surely was unexpected?

Positives
He helps with the children / plays with them / makes them laugh
He does more than his fair share of domestic admin / housework / gardening / errands etc completely uncomplainingly
He is very handy round the house
He massages my feet and shoulders often
He is affectionate and cuddly on the sofa with me at nights
He cooks
He is very thoughtful with presents and cards, remembers birthdays and anniversaries, does sweet things like getting the children to sign cards, buying me flowers when he goes grocery shopping, arranging weekends away / dinners for me with my girlfriends to give me a break / as a surprise
He is extremely attractive and I really fancy him
He does often tell me how great I am and that he is proud of me and has never criticized my weight, looks, dress sense or otherwise tried to put me down in any way
He puts up with my messiness, lateness and impulsiveness without complaining or having a go at me even though he himself hates to be late, to have things be untidy or unpredictable
Sometimes sex is great and he can be extremely considerate and always tries to make me come ? it never feels ?all about him? (maybe that is why I sometimes get the feeling he is doing it as a duty instead of out of desire???)
He is extremely kind and generous with his time and skills and goes out of his way to help friends and family
He makes me feel like I am important in his life
He tells me he loves me every day
He tries. When I tell him things are bothering me or I want him to be different in some way, he really DOES try. He doesn?t always get it right every time or always keep it up but even if he is angry and defensive and silent when I?m telling him he does listen and take it on board and once he has digested it he does make an effort. I believe he genuinely cares about my happiness and feels gut wrenchingly inadequate and guilty when he lets me down or hurts me. And I love him for that.

It feels good to write down the good things as well as the bad.

Needsome that's a far lovelier list than the one you've drawn up in the rest of this thread. Here are some of your words:

• When we first got together he would fly into irrational rages induced by jealousy, perceived criticism, general "stress" etc. This rage sometimes got to the point of physical aggression (grabbing, choking, hair pulling, screaming inches from face etc.) although he has never hit me or actually caused me physical pain - just fear

• He is short tempered, never seems happy, tuts and sighs at pretty much everything I do

• He has a hair trigger and I have to be very careful not to set him off if I speak to him when he comes in after a night out

• He will consequently sulk, stonewall, speak angrily ("everything is all my fault again I see") or even fly into a rage despite my pleas to hold a reasonable constructive conversation.

• And yes, sometimes I do worry about him being on his own with the children all day. But not because I think he would ever HURT them - but because I do believe he is capable of being angry, moody and generally unloving, unfun and unlikely to engage with them in a positive way at all times

• It does annoy me at times that he is incapable of making a decision about anything and literally likes to be told what to do. He is also very negative and apathetic about changing things. He will complain about the status quo but just say it is what it is, I'll stay miserable. Its up to me to find the solutions which he then moodily opines won't work / will be too expensive / are impractical etc.

• But maybe he "controls" me insidiously through his moods and rages. I do admit that when I MAKE all those decisions my overriding concern is whether my choices will make him more moody irritable and unpleasant to be around or less...

• He has in his past been in trouble at work and even with the police (drunken fighting in his youth) because of losing his temper. He has got into a couple of road rage confrontations as well. So it isn't JUST me he loses it with.

• THAT is what conerns me the most - when the DCs are old enough to understand the sighs, slamming aorund, eye rolls, shouting at the dog, cursing the cat etc. Its debilitating living with that.

• He can be a nasty, aggressive, scary asshole

I think most people would have walked away at the grabbing, choking and hair pulling.

Why not separate until he's had treatment?

When you reported that he'd seen the thread, you said how he felt (or how you thought he felt - angry, humiliated, guilty), but nothing about what he said about what this has done to you.

Is he sorry? Has he said he needs to do his best, working with you, to make you happier?

well you have changed your tune completely. your positives list quite literally contradicts your OP, almost point for point.

what do you think that says about the relationship?

also, you say this is a man with an anxiety disorder, not a psychopath.

you do know that choking your partner is a symptom of psychopathy, right? as is pulling hair, physical intimidation, jealous rages, irrational rages, inability to cope with frustration, etc?

sorry - not choking, of course, you clarified. just putting his hand around your throat firmly in order to scare you shitless. which is totally not the same thing and not a big deal at all, obviously.

i feel very sorry for your children. and you. i hope one day soon you can see your situation for what it is.

Someone suggested I think about what I do get out of the relationship. So that's what I did. Sorry if you prefer only hearing the bad stuff.

I've just finished reading Too Good To Leave, Too Bad to Stay thinking that might help me think things through but I didn't find it helpful.

The problem is common, like the little girl in the nursery rhyme - when it is good it is very very good and when it is bad it is horrid. The last few months have been bad. I want the good stuff back.

It's a giant seesaw and it's VERY hard to get off.

i don't "prefer to hear the bad stuff", it's just that your OP lists a bunch of things which you then contradict, so completely it almost seems like you are a different person now manning this thread.

which tells me, you are in a textbook abusive cycle, including a textbook honeymoon period.

that's what i was referring to when i asked what these contradictions tell you about the relationship.

you're right, it is a giant seesaw, and it is very hard to get off. this is what women in abusive relationships experience all over the world. there is help for you.

this situation is NOT OK for small children. you describe the good times, and yes, they sound lovely. but do you understand that the good times are just as damaging as the bad? it's the lack of consistency that will drive a child into a psychiatric ward or an early grave. and i am not just saying that. this is the reality of how an unstable, enraged parent affects his child. to say that he will damage them is the understatement to end them all.

while you pine for the good times and try to cajole your P back into a honeymoon period, your children are suffering. you seem unable to take that on. you just natter on about P and how he feels and how he's reacting, etc. etc. etc.

i hope your latest plan works. really. i hope to God i am all wrong and you will be the only woman in history to successfully reform a violent man.

if not i hope you can look this situation in the face, and go on to remove your children from it.

I wondered about that. The good does does good, but if it's gradually worsened and worsened then it's reaching some sort of crisis.

I understand why you balk at the term "abuser". I've seen what the effect of MH problems can have on someone's behaviour, and whilst I feel sorry for them, I do think there is a point where it is too damaging to those around them. So whilst "abuser" is an alienating word, "abuse" is an accurate description of the result of the behaviour. IYSWIM

I think you and your child deserve to be happy. I hope that your DH can come to see that, and do his utmost to help bring that about for your family.

sorry, X post with oik. My post above should read "the good does sound good"

I,m not sure I've explained what I mean quite clearly enough. My last line makes it sound as if he's responsible for your happiness. What I meant was that it's not clear he actually has acknowledged the damage he has done to you.

Perhaps I should also make clear, that I've seen someone close cope with an angry, anxious, verbally (though not physically) aggressive partner, the result of depression. I could not have stayed there with that person. I sometimes wish she had left, AND that depressed/anxious person did his utmost to get treatment (so, NOT like your DH)

Hmm .
On meds is he everything on your good list so it literally is a question of meds ?
Or is it not as simple as that ?

Because if it was just meds or no meds then surely both of you would have forced the meds issue sooner ?
Or does he switch thruout the day or from one day to the next ? On meds did you still have to still tread carefully ?

It is tiring long term with someone who flips. When you know the good times are going to be followed by bad. Extremes are hard . Do you know each day which is it going to be ? Or is it unpredictable? As the dc get older how will they know what kind of day it is ?

My dd 12 made the decision last year that after the roller coaster ups and downs she is not going to bother with her dad during the good phase or when he is nice . Because she has learned he will flip and it will go wrong. The good does not make up for the bad. Can't say I blame her.

It isn't really clear. Does he do the nice things to make up for the bad consciously or is it that he has bad days or weeks when it is all bad ?

I have been thinking about this more.

If he is in the grip of an anxiety disorder/depression then his demeanour/behaviour is very likely to affect his children. Someone in that state finds it very difficult to hide

If, on the other hand (as you seem to be saying), you can be sure he's completely loving, up-beat and not irritable with them, then this suggests he's saving all the crap for you, which suggests choice is involved.

If he's going back on his meds, (ok they are not the end of the probs) and you are getting a nanny and he is going back to work....It's entirely possible that things will get better.

He's a SAHF,which is stressfull, and men don't have the support network that SAHMs do; with the best will in the world, women do not help men as much as they do other women, don't voluntarily talk to them at the park or school gates etc. Lots of men suffer loss of direction when at home all day (and women do too) even without babies to look after, and going back to work would probably help his mental state.

Hope it works for you Needs.