Welcome to the Turning Tavern

[Gay40]

This is a thread for women who unexpectedly (or not) find themselves attracted to another woman.

And I'm "definitely not gay!" This turning issue blows the whole labelling thing right out of the water as it's not so easy to put people into boxes as we will probably find out. If you don't label yourself then no one else can (but they will give it a damn good go) because it's really nobody's business but your own.

Agree with Loveis.

And I'm definitely not gay either Oh no, I'm thinking of someone else....

Afternoon all. I've written occasionally about my crush on these threads over the last few weeks. In a nutshell, I am happily married in every sense except I have a big steaming crush on another woman which has been going on for about two years. She is also, AFAIK, happily married, and I have no idea if she has similar feelings for me. She has made reference in the past to her bisexuality, and I often feel as if there is a MASSIVE connection there. I've noticed her flit about me while out, make a beeline for me, find excuses to stand close to me... but because I'm kind of modest, and consider her to be far too beautiful for me, I don't dare believe that she has feelings for me too. At least, if she has, I'm sure they're nothing like as strong as mine are for her.

And yes, there is also the consideration that we are both married. So nothing can happen anyway. I'm in a strange situation where I find my dh heavenly to be with - not only is he lovely to look at still, but most of the time to live with too! He's my best friend, and as I always say to him (and mean), he is 'the only man for me'. We have a good sex life and a great time together - a shared sense of humour etc - really he is amazing.

I have no idea where therefore why I have this crush, just goes to show that you can a) develop feelings for others even when happily married and b) a failing marriage doesn't always have to be the precursor to a crush. An affair even, though I have no intention of starting one of those. I guess my ideal fantasy would be as another MN put it on a recent thread, 'a Bloomsbury-esque scenario' whereby I could have my bisexual cake and eat it. Greedy, bad girl that I am!

Anyway, I hope you guys don't hate me for joining you. I'm very aware of how I must sound, and really, I have no intention of having an affair. I have battled these feelings for so long now I feel almost defeated by them - hence the name - and almost can't be bothered to fight them any more. I'd love the crush to fade in time, but while it waxes and wanes, it is stronger now than ever. I hate it and have been through so many guilty feelings, but have kind of come to accept it now, as part of my life right now, and almost philosophically as something I just have to live with at this stage in my life. I have definitely learned that you can't help the feelings that come to you spontaneously, and I guess for that matter I've become a lot less judgemental in recent years.

I think it was me who mentioned a Bloomsbury-esque set-up on Likeas thread - for those of us who have had relationships with both men and women it seems like a perfectly sensible solution

I guess though it takes us into another discussion - are humans really cut out to be monogamous (sic?).

Polly - I'm actually a believer in polygamy if your emotions can handle it just a shame dh doesn't feel the same! I think monogamy has been forced upon society through religion and dictation over the years, but I do wonder if it is natural, and indeed healthy.

I also agree with Loveis - what my partner and I both feel is that we 'connect' in a way that we never did with our husbands, which is not to say that we didn't love our husbands, and, frankly, fancy the pants off them for many years.

My mum doesn't get any of this, although she is trying. When I told her about my partner she asked how long had I been attracted to women - she doesn't get that my love for DP is based on the person she is, the values she holds, the views she expresses, and has nothing to do with the fact that she is female. Also, if I really think about it, I didn't love my husband because he is male, I loved him, the person. I've found, and so has my partner, that there are people who get this, and there are people who don't.

My partner's mother will have nothing to do with us, and has written her a letter saying she could accept us being friends (big of her) but can't accept 'the other little bit' (her words), meaning, I suppose, the idea that we have sex, and one of my DP's (adult) children has said she would be delighted if her mother had a relationship with a man who made her happy, but is 'sickened and embarrassed' that she is with a woman, and will also have nothing to do with us.

With attitudes like that, I cannot be surprised that women (or men in similar situations) might sometimes struggle to explore what might really make them happy.

That's a lovely post Cats and I wish you and your new partner all the best.

I've just been reading Greer's "THe Whole Woman" and I love the chapter 'the love of women':

"Lesbians are different; between three-fiths and four-fiths of gay women have had heterosexual experience and functioned apparently adequately in a heterosexual role...If neither homosexuality nor heterosexuality is innate, if both are socially constructed, none of use needs lose hope that she may yet meet the woman of her dreams and love as she has never loved before."

I've no wish to go to clubs or do internet dating. I'm happy to happen upon the woman of my dreams.

Sorry Cats, your first post. Sorry to hear about some of the attitudes of both your families.

Just a flying visit, Trapped and cats v interesting posts, will read and digest later...

This thread shoots the myth that all lesbians (sorry, labelling again!) are man-haters down in flames doesn't it......I don't think there has been one post from a woman saying 'my husband was a shit, so I ran into the arms of a woman'. All have said how fantastic their relationships with their male partners have been.

cats, I've mentioned your example (without naming) before, with regards to approval of your partners children. You see, it can be a problem, even with adult children. I'm pretty sure that the woman I'm interested in wouldn't be easy about telling her children, especially one who is kind of establishment/serious job - if a grown up child of cats' partner said 'it was embarrassing' then I can imagine the same can be a reaction from her kid(s) and also some friends - it is a shock to some when it happens so late in life. I can sort of see it, as it's as if the person is not what they thought she was. I have no problem personally as I don't have a large network, and I'm not very traditional either, neither aer my friends. I wonder, cats, if your partner struggled with her child not talking to her to a point that it reflected on you, at some stage? Ok, if your bond is thAt strong then maybe not, but say if mine is curious or fond of me but not hugely in love, would she go for that sort of risk of disapproval? As i said before feeling has to be pretty overwhelming for those who are more traditional socially, it's easier for many just to have a fantasy otherwise.

also, cats, I think people who don't accept the sexual side, are saying 'why couldn't you be just very close friends?' - they don't understand why sexuality has to be switched just because you really connect with a woman. Indeed there are many women who have a close female friend, she can even be like a sister, but it's not sexual. I personally think that something bi-sexual is either there or not genetically, and agree with Gay40 who said that if this isn't present in a woman's genes/early development, then a woman can not be turned whatever you do.

I think our society has trouble accepting women as sexual beings in their own right. The idea that two women can have - and enjoy - really really filthy sex is beyond the ken of many people. Why can't we just hold hands?!

This place is shiny and new :) I've brought some of that special tea with me

polly, sexual behaviour is a touchy issue. To be fair I don't think many people approve men having filthy gay sex even though they've been told to keep their opinion to themselves. Then there is 'deviant' sex between men and women which also many wouldn't accept if their relative or friend fessed up. I really don't think it's women in particular who are that disapproved of, I personally never heard any aggressive remarks on that subjects (at most mild distaste) but did hear plenty against gay men, from straight men (again maybe they are more loud about it).

Likea I find cats post really sad, where she talks of her DPs mother and DC both refusing to accept their relationship, and it does show that (unfortunately) you're right to be concerned about your WIQs DCs and how their reactions might affect things.

My DCs are still very young so maybe if - and it's a huge if - anything did come of my crush on WIQ, it would be easier to introduce her to them - they would see her as one of my friends and that's all. Actually, she has met them a couple of times already.

subject

one sugar for me please allotment

polly are you really so set on this wiq and think you will not get attracted to others (regarding intro to your children)? Just sounds like this issue will come up only if she gets interested.

Hmmm, yes I don't think there's so much open hostility towards gay women - and the idea of sex between women - its' more bafflement - you know, why can't we just be close friends, why do we need to have sex?

Men aren't expected to exercise sexual self control in the same way.

Tea with one sugar coming up:) I also find it so sad that relatives just cannot get their heads around gay relationships. Personally I wouldn't bat an eyelid at anyone in my family being gay or bi.

I haven't been attracted to anther woman in yonks so I do only think in terms of what might have if things work out with WIQ.

I'm in Dworkins camp, no desire to go 'looking' for anyone at the moment.

If you build it, they will come

Nice to see so many of you here. I hope that whatever stage you are at, you can give and gain support, some laughs and some serious debate.

polly, yes I agree it's bafflement, but I'd say not so much because women need to have sex, but because people can't imagine why a woman wouldn't prefer men sexually, while being friends with women (sex with a woman is seen as 'not enough' by popular opinion, and not how nature intended - it requires a degree of sophistication maybe, as it's seen). It's actually contradictory though, because again a popular opinion is that women need love to REALLY want sex, so it makes sense that if she loves a woman then she should be aroused by a woman - and in many ways it's harder to love a man (well, for some, like me it would appear). I don;t need love to fancy a man but I lost interest as these atractions are very short lived. I agree with those who say that whoever you are lucky to find love with, could be your sexual partner.

A sort of elderly distant relative once said to me (upon finding out about me and my then partner): "Well, Auntie X and I used to share a bed all time and we never did anything like that."
To which we said, in unison - "Yes, but that's because you never wanted to."