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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Living with dh bordeline personality disorder with narscissitic tendencies

191 replies

Mrswhiskerson · 29/03/2012 20:26

Dh has been diagnosed with boderline personality disorder with narcissitic tendencies which explians a lot of his recent behaviour he is glad he has a diagnosis and feels enlightened as to why he behaves like he does and he wants to work on changing for the better.

I want the marriage to work and to be healthy so I was wondering if anyone has experiance as to how to deal with this and if anyone knows what treatment is available ?

OP posts:
Squashtech · 30/03/2012 18:30

oikopolis:

PD's can be treated, I've seen it done more than once. It's not easy, and takes quite a while to do, but I CAN be done.

"nothing can be done for them by wives/husbands and children", Well not by the children, but there spouses can. They can be supportive, compassionate and aware. This can be of great help to people suffering with PD's.

"the only thing that could "help" them is for them to be kept away from people who might be victimised by them. people like spouses and children.

it's not about demonising the PD person"
But that is exactly what your doing. Your labeling them as an incurable evil manipulative freaks and saying the only thing to do with them is lock them away from people. So were do you think we should build the concentration camps for people with PD's, or are they not people to you?

gettingagrip · 30/03/2012 18:32

OP - please be aware that narcs are notoriously manipulative of MH professionals. They enjoy the challenge of reeling in another so-called expert with promises of how they will change.

The only thing that will show you he has changed is if he does actually change. Words are easy. And he can change while he is a long way away from you and your vulnerable children.

gettingagrip · 30/03/2012 18:33

Squash - can we have some proof of the cures you have seen? What were the actual PDs cured?

How do you measure the cure?

gettingagrip · 30/03/2012 18:34

And lol @ 'supportive, compassionate and aware' - I was all that for twenty years with my spouse - he just carried on destroying me and my children

ratherordinary · 30/03/2012 18:37

Isn't part of the problem on this thread that BPD is not the same as NPD?

gettingagrip · 30/03/2012 18:38

rather - exactly but he was seen to have narc tendencies - not good

seaofyou · 30/03/2012 18:38

There is a cure for psychopathy though!

oikopolis · 30/03/2012 18:42

oh Squash. i am not talking about concentration camps.

Narcissistic personality disorder, which is the PD that i am intimately acquainted with, cannot be treated because the sufferer has no insight into their condition. the lack of insight is a key symptom of the PD. no insight = no route into the mind of the sufferer. it's really that simple.

if you have learned differently, please share that with me.

i cannot speak much to borderline personality disorder, but i do know two people with a BPD diagnosis who have made SOME strides towards normalcy. however they are not near health, they are simply not quite as sick as before. other PDs -- not a lot of experience so i can't speak to them at all.

so allow me to clarify my position: I am talking about NPD here, and perhaps also PDs with strong N elements.

I disagree that spouses can help an NPD person. This is because NPD cannot be helped. the sufferer can't actually even fathom that their spouse is a human being with feelings of their own. what the spouse says is irrelevant in a very profound way, in a way a "normal" person could probably never fully understand.

whether the spouse remains enmeshed with the NPD sufferer or not is immaterial to the sufferer. if the spouse were to leave, the sufferer would simply replace them with the next vulnerable person they happened upon.

evil manipulative freaks is not what i label NPD sufferers as at all. i simply label them as incurable, and their condition as extremely destructive to those around them. i don't believe that's a value judgement; it think it's a statement of fact borne out by the literature. again, if you know of a therapy that has an effect on a sufferer with no insight, let me know, i shall direct my father to it and see what he says.

concentration camps for people with PDs? no, not at all. i don't think there's anything to be done about NPD on a societal level. all that can be done is that in individual cases, where NPD is suspected, families of the sufferer should be counselled to end their enmeshment with the sufferer, lower their expectations of recovery, and begin building a safe space for children of the sufferer to begin rebuilding what the sufferer has laid waste to.

it's hard that there are people with NPD out there. not nice at all. no-one wants to give up on another human being, it's awful and wrenching.
but encouraging spouses to "support" the NPD sufferer does no good at all... sad but true.

ratherordinary · 30/03/2012 18:43

Is there?

Yes, I don't know what they mean by narc tendencies, and agree that that sounds grim. But, you know, still important to remember that there is, in most cases, a clear distinction.

oikopolis · 30/03/2012 18:48

Squash as you may have seen in my initial post in this thread, i differentiated between borderline and npd dxes, and said that borderline can be treated sometimes, but that the N tendencies may make this extremely difficult since a key N trait is lack of insight.

i do think that most here are focusing on the N aspect of the OP's post. the N bit is the scary bit; that's the bit that whispers "not a lot of hope here" to those who have experience of NPD

seaofyou · 30/03/2012 18:50

yep!

Lock them away and chuck the key away until they are to old cause distruction:)

seaofyou · 30/03/2012 18:51

destructionBlush darn thought we were on page 3 still!

gettingagrip · 30/03/2012 18:53

oh norty seaofyou - you had me going for a bit there!

gettingagrip · 30/03/2012 18:55

rather - there is a distinction, in fact there are a couple of borderline PDers on MN. They are very self-aware. I have total admiration for them.

weegiemum · 30/03/2012 18:57

I have BPD. Or I did. Currently, my symptoms are so well under control following extensive therapy that I'm not diagnosable.

I very rarely post about this on mn as there is an awful lot of misunderstanding of pd on here. I'm not "less sick", I'm bloody better! I've had a serious physical illness recently and even that hasn't affected my mental health, cos I have improved so much. I no longer have trouble with anger, alcohol abuse, lying, desperate fear of abandonment, self harm etc. And one of the things that helped me most was the unconditional love of my dh.

I dont know much about NPD, but it's totally different to borderline, especially in terms of insight. I am aware of my pd and so I face it head on and overcome it. I'm surprised to see narc put alongside borderline, actually. Haven't read the thread in enough detail, but have you checked the DSM IV diagnostic criteria? Might give you more information about it (it's easy to google, can't link as on phone!)

seaofyou · 30/03/2012 18:58

I know Grin till I realised I was wrong blardy page

However if MrsW does love her dh and wants it to work I do suggest she gets trained in behaviour management, cause their isnt a cure but behaviours can be managed ......mainly in instutions like prison and high secure units feel :( for you Mrs W

ratherordinary · 30/03/2012 18:59

Yes, I think whoever has done the diagnosis has really muddied the water. Sad Not saying the OP should be anything but very very self-protective though, and of her dc. I would be running a mile.

seaofyou · 30/03/2012 19:01

weegiemum tell me more about your therapy! Do you have a dh or family who also follow the therapy for you stay on track? This is good news for Mr W maybe!

QueenofWhatever · 30/03/2012 19:06

weegiemum great post and I agree that some BPD can dramatically improve. I'm glad that is the case for you.

I also agree it's the lack of insight that so many PDers display that is the kicker. The lack of understanding of the impact of their behaviour and of you as a person with rights and boundaries resonates so much with my experiences.

ratherordinary · 30/03/2012 19:12

My poor dsis married a narc, so her chances of insight are minimal. Needless to say he's not keen for his wife to be seen to have any flaws. Sad

Apparently however it's not unusual for someone with BPD to marry someone with NPD, because the latter seem to be so sure of themselves, whereas the former's sense of self is so fragile.

seaofyou · 30/03/2012 19:21

are they the marriages that end up on Jeremy's show I wonder? Grin

my ds has a disorder was on on a behaviour programme 24/7 from 2yrs old you wouldnt know he had his disorder now unless anxiety levels reach boiling point...I think UK 'psychiatry' services are 60 yrs behind and their are fab 'behavioural science' out their to help manage ALL disorders, addictions etc but costs lots of money and lots of commitment, consistency etc but can be life changing!

NarkedPuffin · 30/03/2012 19:24

How bizarre Squash. I think many of the people posting here have mental health issues. I do - I've suffered with depression for years.

Personality disorders are very different to eg depression, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder. They are a label created to describe a pattern of behavior. They are not 'illnesses' that can be treated with medication.

garlicbutter · 30/03/2012 19:34

THE DIAGNOSIS "NARCISSISTIC PERSONALITY DISORDER" IS BEING ELIMINATED FROM DSM5, which takes effect next year.

It will be replaced by "Personality Disorder with narcissistic traits" - which is what the OP's husband's shrink has said. Quite correctly, s/he wouldn't want to give a diagnosis that is obsolete within 12 months.

I posted a link about it earlier.

Borderline Personality Disorder remains the baseline for all the Cluster B disorders. Therefore, if the shrink actually did include the word borderline, it is still a diagnosis of NPD as we currently call it.

oikopolis · 30/03/2012 19:40

^ thanks garlic i missed that the first time you posted it.
i had heard that the NPD diagnosis/wording would change -- interesting to see how it's playing out.

this doesn't bode well for the OP though does it...

ratherordinary · 30/03/2012 19:42

But that can't be right, Garlic. It can't be. BPD is so different from NPD. Confused