Living with dh bordeline personality disorder with narscissitic tendencies

[Mrswhiskerson]

Dh has been diagnosed with boderline personality disorder with narcissitic tendencies which explians a lot of his recent behaviour he is glad he has a diagnosis and feels enlightened as to why he behaves like he does and he wants to work on changing for the better.

I want the marriage to work and to be healthy so I was wondering if anyone has experiance as to how to deal with this and if anyone knows what treatment is available ?

"personality disorder with narcissistic tendencies" means NPD.
psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2010/11/30/personality-disorders-shakeup-in-dsm-5/

Mrswhiskerson, I agree that it is not possible for your marriage to "work" as a functional, two-way relationship in which you will be heard and respected.

Cluster B Personality Disorders can't be cured. Treatment is aimed at symptom management.

Your husband will never be able to perceive other human beings as fully living, sentient beings. He is the only 'real' person in his world; everyone else is a prop for the drama in his head. In line with that, he will never appreciate that you actually feel, let alone care about your feelings. His are the only real feelings. He is all that matters.

I think you have underestimated the import of this diagnosis. In old-fashioned language, he is mad. It cannot be fixed.

I URGE you to book yourself a psychotherapist (not the same one) to discuss this diagnosis, and what it means for you.

... I don't want to have to keep justifying my post above, so am adding now that Narcissism is a very lonely disorder and, from an outside point of view, tragic for the sufferer. It may have been the loneliness that appealed to you on some level, along with the "you're the only one who understands me" line they spin while reeling you in.

Mrs w

Unfortunately your marriage will never be a healthy one because it is inherently unhealthy and you are not responsible for him. I understand as well that your childhood itself was not a happy one either.

Cluster B personality disorders cannot be cured.

You have a choice re your H; your son does not. Is this relationship really the role model you want him to follow?.

Wow, some pretty damning stuff here, UA I think I remember you've had some horrible experiences with family members with PD and I can totally empathise but not everyone with a PD dx is abusive. Honestly.

I am a mh professional and I also work with emergence as a trainer to increase knowledge and understanding of PD in hospitals, prisons, housing services etc. so I have a lot of experience in this area. Your dh cannot help the way he is, he did not ask for this to happen to him and people like this are not evil or freaks. Sorry but they aren't. They aren't born that way you know, they are using survival skills they developed in childhood to cope with chaotic/neglectful/abusive situations and in order to get their needs met. Unfortunately in adulthood these strategies are maladaptive and unhelpful and only serve to alienate them from those around them.

I have friends with diagnosed (actual diagnosed not just internet diagnosed) PD and yes they have emotional problems but they are in no way bad people, in fact they are fantastic.

It makes me sad and angry that we are so quick to dehumanise people with this dx. Having said that, I haven't read your other threads but you do need to prioritise looking after yourself and the dcs. You might find this website helpful too:

outofthefog.net

Feel free to pm me if you want some well-informed, non-judgemental advice or just to offload. Nothing against other posters on here but some of these attitudes are not particularly helpful.

Jacey, but there are different personality disorders and a narcissist sounds like they are going to be all about themselves. Being in a relationship with someone like this is different also to knowing them or even being friends with them, as the dynamic is different. Some people as well can be very different with different people.

I dealt with someone once who I now think was a narcissist. It was a headwrecker and I wasn't even in a relationship with them. Their thinking was so warped, and so unlike how I thought, it was hard to get my head around it or deal with it. They used to invent these ridiculous stories about themselves (to give one example).

Another issue is whether the OP will be able to set boundaries that probably haven't been set before? I have found this difficult to do myself in situations where I realise there is a problem in the dynamic of a relationship/friendship (and I am not talking about people with such ingrained personality disorders that would make it more difficult). It can be hard to even see some of the habits that have been aquired from dealing with someone who is dysfunctional (especially if there is regular close contact), never mind be able to change it.

I haven't read the other threads so don't know the background to it. But I would worry if this OP's partner has been abusive that he won't change, or change enough, or change while she is still around. If there is a history of her being the punchbag it will be very hard to change that role. There are more arguments against her staying with him than leaving if he has a history of abusive behaviour.

Personally I would run a mile, but maybe the idea of seperating for a year and then seeing is a good one? This would give both some emotional space and for him tome to work on himself and to prove he has changed (bearing in mind though that he is likely to be a practiced manipulator so words alone cannot be trusted).

A lot of abusive/dysfuncational people have experienced abuse in the past, but this is still not an excuse for the behaviour and no reason for someone to subject themselves to it, especially if there is a child involved.

JaceyBee

I have huge experience of family members with PDs. They drove me to the brink of suicide.

I have observed recently a culture emerging of sympathy for the PDed, usually encouraged by MH 'professionals', who should know better. This sympathy for the PDed is all well and good,but these people wreck others' lives, and emerge unscathed themselves from the wreckage.

Also if you are a professional you should know that these disorders are indeed genetic in origin, compounded by nurture (or the lack of it), and my own family totally bears this out.

I have sympathy for my PDed mother, but she has no sympathy for me!

I think telling the victim of a PDed person that they should put up and shut up which is what you are in effect doing is very dangerous advice indeed. The children of these people in particular need protection from them, so as to reduce the chances of further generations emerging from nightmare childhoods having 'protected themselves' to destruction.

As a MH professional you should also know that the most recent thinking is that all PDs are on a spectrum, with psychopathy at one end and milder forms at the other. These people's brains are different shapes FGS and they CANNOT change.

Don't tell us who have lived with these people all our lives that we are judgemental and should be ignored. We know what it is like at the sharp end, so don't be so bloody patronising and dismiss our advice.

Some of us are also scientists who can read peer -reviewed research on these issues and make up our own minds. Just because you are a 'professional' doesn't mean you know it all. ANd it certainly doesn't mean you lhave to live your life as a child and an adult with children trying to protect your own and their mental health from their own family members.

Disclaimer: I know that certain PDs allow treatment, BPD being one such. Narcissism - never.

Out of the Fog is, indeed, a useful website. I suggest you start here, OP, and follow the links on each paragraph.

outofthefog.net/Disorders/NPD.html

Just a quick MSG to say I haven't ran from the thread or anything like that things got very busy and I didn't get a chance to come back I will co
e back later on this evening when I have more time to explain things properly.

But I do want to say to the poster who helpfully picked up on my bad grammer in my op , it is very rude to point out a persons mistakes in a post whether it be spelling or punctation or whatever.

Is this a 'mental health problem' or a personality disorder?

Sorry, posted too early.

My point is that some labels are just that - a label placed on a particular pattern of behaviour. They don't come with any of the things one would usually associate with health problems like treatments or a prognosis. It's rather like saying someone has been diagnosed with being tall.

Dh has been diagnosed with borderline personality disorder with narcissistic tendencies which explains a lot of his recent behaviour

The latter, it seems, Puffin.

JaceyBee i find it interesting that, as a MH professional, you would say that the PDed person is displaying learned behaviour.

the literature i've read on the subject DEFINITELY does not point conclusively to that. there are a wide variety of theories out there, and basing your view of the PD on how you ought to be sympathetic to the PDed because they learned their behaviour due to neglect/abuse is not wise IMO. the literature is much more nuanced than that.

about your assertion that the PDed have been "dehumanised" here:

here's the thing.

perhaps you will agree with me when i say, a person with a PD is very much like a person with an uncontrolled addiction, who does not want to recover. yes, it is very sad for them that they are like that... but the family members cannot do anything about it. especially when there are N tendencies involved.

sticking around doesn't help the sufferer; leaving doesn't help the sufferer; nothing helps really.

but

leaving and disengaging does help the children and spouse and family members of the sufferer. not nice for the PD sufferer, but really, what else is there to do? should innocent children be sacrificed at the altar of the PD? should the legacy of the PD be perpetuated, just because we should "be nice" to the PD sufferer?

i think not and i think it would be unwise in the extreme to try to guilt trip the OP into staying with her H.

it doesn't matter if he "doesn't mean to" do terrify/abuse/hurt/damage his family.
the fact is, he does it, and since he has N tendencies, he's unlikely to stop doing it (or even acknowledge that what he's doing is wrong)

and as long as OP stays around, and keeps her child/ren near this man, she's placing the innocent in danger.

Can I ask who did the diagnosing, op?

Queen

Squash - mental illness is NOT personality disorders!

you are getting a little het up about the wrong thing here!

Have you ANY experience of a parent with a PD?

No - thought not.

Personality Disorders are not mental illnesses, they are mental disorders.

I am deeply unlikely to "hate" the mentally ill as I am one myself. My mental illness is a consequence of having too much faith in personality-disordered individuals.

I feel compassion for them, yes. These days I exercise my compassion from a safe distance.

oh and PS - I have a mental illness myself - caused by my parents who have PDs! It's called depression.

massive x post with garlic!

gettingagrip:

Lots of experience.

And PD's are mental illnesses, that why there dealt with by the MENTAL health services not say, social services. They are psychological mental illnesses, usually caused by early childhood trauma. Telling people with PD's that they are evil freaks is the same as telling rape victims it's there fault they were raped.

Although heated, IMO this is actually a pretty crucial debate.

Is it being had in mental health circles as well, currently?

Squash this isn't about dehumanizing ANYONE. I understand that you're upset but you are misinterpreting what people are saying here.

personality disorders aren't like depression, or panic disorder, or eating disorders, or anything like that. those sorts of things can be treated and things can get better. people with depression etc. usually WANT to get better, and hate to be sick, and feel like they're not "themselves" because they're so ill.

the problem is that PDs can't be treated. people with PDs can't get better, usually they can't even see that they are sick. that's one of the symptoms of the PD: not knowing, or even being able to know, that you are sick. the very structure of their personality is disordered. that's why it's called a personality disorder.

can you see how, if that is the case, that leaving children around a PDed person is extremely dangerous? it would be like leaving children around an alcoholic who is actively drinking and will never, ever give up. what will that child learn about life, about their own identity, if they're "cared" for by a deeply disturbed person with a malformed personality? someone who is not even able to see that the child in question is a human being with feelings?

it's very sad that there are people out there who are sick like this, but nothing can be done for them by wives/husbands and children!

the only thing that could "help" them is for them to be kept away from people who might be victimised by them. people like spouses and children.

it's not about demonising the PD person
it's about being realistic about what they are and are not capable of, and making allowances for that in a practical way!

Narcissists are generally NOT dealt with by MH services as according to their own twisted minds there is nothing wrong with them. They are not always caused by early childhood trauma. Would you day a psychopath should be pitied and would you tell a psychopath's partner to stay with them? Because that is what you are advocating here.

It is nothing like victim blaming victims of any crime! Narcs have no empathy and no concern for anyone except themselves.

There is no cure.

Their brains are a different shape to 'normal' peoples' brains, and this cannot be reversed. This is scientific fact.

And I could tell my own personal PDs that they are evil freaks until the cows come home and it would make not one jot of difference. But I don't because I am a reasonable human being.

For me the positive thing here is that dh is aware he has problems and that he also wants to work on changing things. He has to keep wanting to change though because real change requires a lifetime of work.

My XH could NOT and by the sounds of it still can't see, at any point that it was his world view that was out of synch with the norm and not the other way round. Even after he lost is wife, his house, his job, was accused of and imprisoned for theft from deceased clients estates he could not take responsibility for his part in events.

He would never see anyone to try get a diagnosis because to him there is nothing to diagnose. He would never want to change because to him there is no need. He also does not have the emotional range to experience any self-awareness or express feelings or emotions. The effects of his behaviour badly impacted on our respective families and especially on our dd. Your dh sounds to have far more self-awareness thankfully.

I'd just say be extremely cautious, get as much info and support as you can and as lots on here say - discuss and set boundaries with him. If he can accept those then I think that would be a really positive sign that he can work towards a healthy a relationship as possible. If he can't then that's more problematic because it is vital that he is able to act with your wellbeing, and those of your dcs, in mind.

You are both aware there is a problem and that is hugely important. It's when someone cannot see there is a problem that there is absolutely no chance I reckon. At all times put your welfare and that your dcs top of your priorities.