Mixed culture relationship problems

[furiousgrantobe]

My daughter and her bf have been together 7 years but it has been complicated by the fact that he is of Pakistani origin and she is of english mother/brazilian father mixed race. I have been aware of the relationship from the beginning as I am very close to my daughter and whilst it wouldn't have been my choice of partner for her I have always supported the relationship as her happiness is of paramount importance. His family became aware of the relationship at the beginning due to him unfortunately being sent to prison and my daughter and I attended the court and his family were amicable towards us. She has fully supported him through 2 stints in prison, I believe in giving someone a second chance and since his last release 4 years ago he has been a changed person.
The relationship has been almost hidden from his family and my daughter has never been to his house but has met his sister and got on well with her.
My DD found out 8 weeks ago that she is pregnant and due to medical problems in the past was told that it was almost impossible to conceive naturally. They were to begin IVF treatment next month! Obviously she was shocked but delighted with the news as was her bf.
Now the real issues begin. BF has admitted the relationship to the family which they begrudging accepted on the condition that DD learns urdu, she has no problem with that.
BF then has to admit a week later that DD is in fact preganant and as you can imagine all hell broke loose. His sister even phoned DD to plead with her to have an abortion not realising she is in fact 14 weeks pregnant now. She has since apologised but I still find it unforgiveable.
His parents then say they will accept 'things' if they can marry quickly, ie in the next few weeks! My DD was not against this although it was not what she would have ideally wanted but then came the further demands. After the wedding she had to move in with his family, this was flatly refused. DD has always maintained she wanted to stay at home until the baby is born and for a few months after and then either buy or rent a house together. His parents will not compromise. They have not contacted me which I find very disrespectful and feel that it them making all the demands. I realise it is a cultural thing but surely compromises have to be met?

BF has now not contacted DD and she is very down and upset, he said some very hurtful things to her in anger but feels she has compromised enough in agreeing to marry but sticking to original plans. I would welcome anyone views on this situation. BF family have said they will not accept DD or baby if they are not married before the birth and living together.

Please help!!

Hi, i am asian and muslim very educated background but still my upbringing was quite strict( for perspective) if my daughters were with someone like this man i would tell them to run a mile.He and his family sound awful,cultural expectations do not give people the right to behave in a cruel manner.

first of all, if she isn't getting the full support of her partner now, then it doesn't bode well for the future.

He really needs to step up and act as a bridge between the two cultures.

I am married to a Japanese man (VERY different culture!) and luckily his family were very supportive, and he too made it clear that I was the important one, not them.

however, I have friends whose in-laws were vehemently against their son marrying a western woman.

your DD is right not to want to live the in-laws, it usually does NOT turn out well.

If she is willing to get married, then that is enough of a compromise.

Her boyfriend needs to step up and face up to his family, not start ignoring your DD.

hope you can get things resolved

BTW, you say they haven't contacted you, but would it possible for you to contact them?

Is he the only son? This will complicate matters enormously. From what I know (and it's very limited) it is fairly normal to absorb DILs into the parental household, to keep the son close. Of course your DD doesn't want to do this - it's not part of her culture or upbringing. It sounds like much pressure is being brought to bear on her BF but he is no kind of man if he gives in to it now - he has chosen to go this route with your DD, he cannot now decide to be a "good son" and do what his parents want even if it is totally against your DD's wishes.

They will probably not contact you - why would they? You aren't the problem, your DD is. As they see it, it's a "family matter" and you aren't part of their family.

I feel very sorry for your DD - this is a tough ride she has chosen. TBH, I think your DD's BF is largely to blame for this situation and he has behaved really badly throughout - if he wanted to be with your DD then he should have stood up and told his family from the beginning that this was going to be the way it was. As he hasn't, he really has to do it now.

Your DD must not move into his family's home - she will be miserable. She must stand her ground, even if it means losing the BF. If he won't stand up for her now, he certainly won't once she's on his mother's home territory. His mother may be a lovely person, I don't know - but your DD is already "shamed" by being pregnant and unwed in her eyes - and she's not Pakistani, which may cause more upset for the mother, going on what you've said.

I would say that your DD's best plan is to decide not to marry her BF until his parents agree they can live in a separate house. So they may say that they will not accept her or the baby - and they may mean it, they might even stick to it - but once they get married she will find it harder to withstand the pressure.

I'm also from a south Asia background where it's traditional for women to move in with their husband's families and I wouldn't do it in your daughter's case. It's difficult at the best of times but they don't sound like a supportive and kind family and the son doesn't sound like he will stand up to his family in support of your daughter. Until living arrangements are agreed, your daughter certainly shouldn't entertain the thought of marrying him and even if they do agree to seperate housing I would still be wary.

Wrt the family contacting you, it is possible that in their tradition they would expect a male relative (father or if he's not around, an older brother or cousin) of your daughter to reach out to them.

I'm half Pakistani (father's Pakistani and mother's white) and I understand the culture. I would be careful with the decision your DD makes now. If she concedes and moves in, then it's a slippery slope and they will continue to make demands. In my experience, DILs aren't always treated particularly well, and this family sounds...unfriendly?!

i really hope she doesnt marry him. It sounds like shes already been through a lot for this relationship and now hes not standing up for her.
I think if she marries him, she may as well kiss goodbye to having a happy life

The groom needs to man up and sort out his own family.

I realise it's easier said than done in any family, let alone one with a strict traditional culture, but if he wants to have a family on his own now is the time to grow a pair and start putting his future wife and baby first.

Unfortunately I don't think there's much you or your daughter can do. You have compromised enough. But if the bloke doesn't prove to be firmly supportive of your daughter in this instance, the future is promising to be very difficult for her I'm afraid.

Good luck. You sound like a fab mum. :)

I think your DD's boyfriend has been incredibly weak for not admitting a seven year relationship in the first place. He is now behaving very badly for putting pressure on her like this when she's pregnant. If she's stood by him through two terms in gaol and tolerated being his 'secret girlfriend', he owes her a huge debt of gratitude... not siding with his parents the first opportunity he gets. I hope your DD starts to defend herself and her baby, insists on taking top priority and gives this man a wide berth until he is 100% on her side. She should on no account 'marry in haste' or move in with people that hate her... that would be a total disaster.

Thank you all for your wise words and sound advice.

His family compromised to the point of them marrying and then moving immediately into rented accomodation (in the vicinity of his family's home) but that again was not what my DD and her BF agreed on in the first instance. The plan was always for her to remain at home until after the baby was born and a few months after move into a house that they had chosen and agreed on together with no family pressure. With no disrespect the area that they live in is not particularly nice and certainly not comparably to where we live now.

My DD has now categorically stated that if her BF cannot accept her decision then she is prepared to do this alone. It is not what she wants but too much pressure has been put on her to do everything his family's way.

I totally support and agree with her decision but it is hard for me to see her so down when only a week ago she was so excited and looking forward to the future.

You must be so proud that she is taking this stance. Many would have caved under the pressure and expectations. Life has a way of heading off 90 degrees when you least expect it and strong people like your daughter can emerge better for the experience, even if it's tough-going to begin with. If she's taking the initiative she won't be down for long. She'll regroup and get excited about a different kind of future, that's all.

I am in a different mixed culture relationship. What I would say is I think you should be a bit fatalistic. If it is going to work, it will work. If it is struggling now, over things like where to live/when to marry/languages, it will continue to struggle as things come up all the time like schooling, food, expectations of relationships, events etc. All these things are hard in a oneculture relationship, doubly hard where there are two cultures.

It may be that this man is simply not the man for her. If he was that devout, he wouldn't be in this mess in the first place (an unexpected pregnancy is very unacceptable in some Muslim families, I have friends who have quickly had abortions in this situation to 'save face', then gone on to have legitimate children literally months later). He may be changed in terms of not reoffending, but it doesn't sound like he's going to prioritise your daughter in all this, and is suddenly worried about upsetting his family.

The key thing we have found is that the family unit (me, husband and children) has to be strong. When family pressure comes, you have to be able to withstand it and make decisions together and defend each other. Actually, I don't think this is just relevant to mixed culture relationships, interfering families cause a lot of destruction in marriages, esp. if one person lets them.

Good luck, it sounds like you are a great supportive mum, carry on doing that, she may need you.

Good for her that she is prepared to do it alone, because this sounds like an absolute minefield full of red flags and it's better to start off alone and feeling strong, with your support, rather than having to disentangle herself at a later stage when the baby is born and things will be much more complicated.
Best of luck

I think your DD has made a very sensible and strong decision. I hope she sticks by it because I think that this man will let her down in favour of his family at every opportunity. :(

This is a very interesting OP and set of responses.

If, let's say in Pakistan, a women was asked to have an abortion, asked to get married because she was pregnant and was asked to learn a language and asked (against her will) to move into a household where the people weren't even civil to her and her family then a British NGO would go to Pakistan to rescue the poor woman from her abusive situation.

But when this happens in the UK then many accept it as CULTURE and support the woman to "compromise", "understand", "respect the culture" and get married, learn a language and move with with uncivil in laws etc etc...

I am married to an Asian man, I do not believe he or his family has any right over me, they have no control over the my decision on where I live, what language I speak or over our joint decision to have a kid. They have no right to do that in their country or in the UK - culture or no culture. Human beings' freedoms and rights must not be sacrificed by someone's idea of culture.

errr, where on this thread has anyone suggested the DD should do it, hmm? Haven't noticed that myself...

I am of Pakistani background myself and married a Pakistani but still different traditions and customs and even that was hard enough!!

I DID refuse to move in with the family, but i DID move to a small house near his parents, (which is not the best area compared with what I was used to), but my DH is extremely supportive and does not take for granted the 'sacrifices' that I made. In turn, he does not expect me to be the submissive DIL to his parents, I do as I please, much to the disgust of his family

I find it out of order that they are dictating that your DD learns Urdu. That would be helpful to THEM if she CHOSE to learn it, but should not be dictated. I also find it out of order that they have a closed little world and they were expecting your DD to move in/move nearby.

In short, they are being wholly unreasonable. I do not like that mentality and it is very unacceptable. Do not take these as simply cultural differences. Yes, what they have asked for is very common in the Pakistani culture, but even young women of Pakistani culture are today flatly refusing to be the ones compromising all the time.

Good to see that they 'compromised' but there is nothing wrong with your daughter's plans of marrying then having baby at your home. The only thing i would consider is would her BF support her during pregnancy and after birth? Is he able to financially support her after birth or would his family do so?

If it would be the family then I would think very carefully about every step.

Thank you everyone but especially 'defuse' as it is so helpful to hear it from someone who actually originates from the traditional culture.

I think the learning of Urdu was mainly for the Mothers benefit as she doesn't speak English although she has lived here for 41 years.

My DD is now adamant that their will be no marriage nor change of original plans under any circumstances. I think her initial reaction to agree to marriage should have been sufficent but then when all the extra conditions were imposed it made her question a lot of the relationship.

Her BF hasn't contacted her since Tuesday. He told her that if she really loved him then she would do it for him and she was being unreasonable in not agreeing......errr I don't think so. If he really truly loved her then as everyone has said he would be putting his future? wife and unborn child first.

As for financial support, my DD has a very well paid job which she plans on returning to after maternity leave whereas I haven't seen any evidence of the BF having a 'proper' job since she met him.

DD knows she has my full support and we have a largish close knit family although we do not live locally to any of them. She also has many friends who fully support her. She has asked to go shopping to look at car seats tomorrow so I am pleased she is now showing an interest again and seems to be far less 'down' than when this all began.

Her BF has chosen who he has sided with. He has not called her for the greater part of a week... and this is the time when he'd be lovestruck, excited and passionate about her...

Imagine a year down the line.... he'll be joining in with the disgust of her.

If your DD starts out in a relationship like this, it will only ever go down hill. The entire family looks to be complicit in trying to bully HER into aborting her very possibly only chance at a child. This is societal and familial abuse in the making. For an insight into the 'honour' system, have a look at the Panorama programme shown last week. It'll still be on BBC iPlayer.

I think it speaks volumes that many posters commenting here have come from comparitive backgrounds, but have been well educated. I would suggest that the BF family doesn't fall into that category so much, as the mother's lack of English in 41 years indicates her isolation from the outside world, her daughter's phonecall asking for the termination indicates that she too is indoctrinated/brain washed into believing that this approach is acceptable, and that your DD needs to conform, or else.

If I were talking to your DD, I would ask her to give IMMENSE thought to NOT putting his name on the birth certificate... just in case it all goes tits up. If this guy has PR, he would be able to get passports done for the child and there could be a potential abduction risk.

IF he mans up, and stands up to his family, backs her 100% and more, THEN she thinks he might be worth a punt, and eventually marries him, all being well his name can be added to the certificate IIRC. I don't for a second think that this will happen though.

Until such time as she is 100% sure of his (and his wretched family's) motives, then she needs to take as many steps to protect herself and her child.

Her family BTW have NO right at all to look down on her when their own son has served time. TWICE. What decent woman from a good family from their culture would accept HIM as a groom anyway? They seem to think they are trading in gold when it comes to him, by the sounds of it, he's DAMNED lucky to have a GF like her.

SHE can (and WILL) do much better than him. She needs to see that, and she needs to set a FLIPPING high bar for him to come back to her. A mere mumbled sorry is not enough. From here, your DD looks like SHE holds all the cards here, she has all the options and choices and should not EVER compromise on a single thing to be with this man-child.

furious, I'm glad your DD is holding firm to her resolution and I hope she continues to do so. In fact, I hope she breaks up with her "BF" as by trying the emotional blackmail card on her now, he has truly shown what a pathetic excuse for a man he is.

She has to do what is right for her baby and herself, he is not worth considering now except as the biological father.
But I would also listen to Hissy's point re. the birth certificate - if she is who I think she is then she also has an inside line on the problems of situations like these (sorry Hissy if that's too much, get me deleted if you think it is, if you are who I think you are)

I've not had BC/DC abduction issues Thumb, but I know there have been others that have, so no you are not outing me here. My Ex is out of the country, but has always maintained that our DS needs to stay with me. We've had posters that have had kids taken from them, or who have had to leave some of their DC with an abuser due to nationality/cultural issues.

I do personally know people who have had their children threatened and even abducted and for the mother to get them back is nigh on impossible. If the father doesn't have PR, he will NEVER be able to get a passport for them, not a legal one anyway.

IME the families that cause abduction problems ARE usually the uneducated/more pious ones, if your DD's BF's family are like this now, they will only get worse.

I hope she runs at top speed in the opposite direction from him and his family. They are (IMHO) dangerous. The BF sounds weak at best and potentially abusive at worst. Either way he's to be binned.

I was married to a Muslim - his mother was very devout. my life was a complete nightmare. The only reason I don't regret it is that I could never regret anything that resulted in my astonishing son.

I very nearly moved countries. That would have been a huge mistake it turns out.

If there are doubts now your daughter needs to stand her ground.

I'm so scarred by my experience that I'm trying to be very careful about what I say.

I think your daughter is very lucky to have you being so vocal in your support and I hope she has a happy and healthy pregnancy and you enjoy your new grandchild.

Small Hijack...

Liza, my love, I did move countries. There is a WHOLE new nightmare on the other side of that plane ride. Thank goodness you didn't. i got out, my son luckily was never at risk from the X, but my day to day life was horrific.

I too am/was scarred, I was agoraphobic when I came home.
I'm working HARD to recover, (Freedom Programme, Therapy, Support Group)

if you would benefit from talking about it, don't hesitate to PM me? You won't need to watch what you are saying with me... If DV was an issue for you too, there are other online support groups I can potentially offer you if you need them.

What I don't understand is why they were planning to have IVF (and so a baby) without being married. Why would he want this? Did she not realise what marrying into his family would involve? I don't understand how this could be a shock to her now.

He doesn't seem much of a catch, OP. Did you know they were planning IVF? Did you have the chance to discuss the wisdom of your daughter having a child with this man?

Thank you everyone for your kind words and moral support.

I will try to answer any questions but obviously will not make assumptions on things I am not clear about.
If I am completely honest there were a lot of things I witnessed in the relationship that disgusted me, so much so, that I contacted the police for their advice. DV can take many forms and sometimes the person it is happening to doesn't realise what outsiders can see.

I did ask questions about the IVF. The BF always maintained he would tell his family how things were if it worked and they would either accept it or not but it would not change their relationship. How quickly things change!

Unfortunately, I have had first hand experience of child abduction and realise the full implications and difficulties involved in dealing even within the EU. I know there is now the Pakistan Protocol but seeing first hand of how the legal system fails I will make sure every precaution is taken.

It has been a difficult weekend with emotional blackmail towards DD, implying that a DNA test would be required etc etc etc.

DD and I did go shopping at the weekend and bought baby things which cheered her up immensely. She is a strong, beautiful and intelligent young woman who is not going to compromise or be blackmailed and I am so proud of her.

Oh she is so lucky to have you!

Please don't let her think this will get better. it won't. Has she read Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft? Please reinforce to her what normal is, and more importantly what it is not.

She needs to cut contact. She also needs to take great care. her dumping him may go down badly, loss of face and all that. I worry of repercussions. Please contact the police and get her protected if you think this could be an issue.

If his family are this poisonous, if she does the right thing and kicks him to the kerb, they may react badly especially with the pg in the mix.