Can you ever get trust back?

[Whatacrapday]

Found out last summer that OH had cheated with some woman he met on FB. He said it was only stuff by phone and a few texts, but I found hundreds of them on FB mailer and he's always kept his phone close. Some of the texts said he was in the bathroom at the time, which sounded so tacky. He tried to lie about the naked pics they both texted even though they praised them on FB. He blamed me and said we weren't close but he'd never said anything to me and I thought we were happy, I'd always tried to think of him first and support him in everything

Anyway that was nearly a year ago and I tried since then to be really loving to him even though I thought I already was. Things have gone on somehow and now we've booked some breaks away this summer, but I can't look at him the same way. Every time he gets nasty I'm afraid its with me and he'll go off and break our home up. He's never liked talks about feelings and I can't find the words to tell him how I feel not the same as I did. He tells me he loves me sometimes now, but it sounds like its choking him to say it and I don't know if its because he doesn't mean it or just because he's not really a romantic type, although he was romantic in his texts to her!

I really need help please on if you can ever get things back to how it was? Please don't anyone suggest conselling because he wouldn't go and even if he did he'd just say everything was my fault

Sadly no. It never goes back to how it was. What seems to be worse in your case is that you are tolerating worse and worse behaviour ('he gets nasty') accepting the blame and making allowances out of fear that he will 'go off and break our home up'.

I think you have to stop forgiving, stop trying so hard and start seeing things for what they are. Which is that you have a husband that doesn't respect you in the slightest, 'gets nasty', blames you for his own shortcomings, is not affectionate and treats your efforts to make a go of other marriage with contempt. If he won't go for counselling consider going on your own... not to solve his problems but so that you can see him for what he really is. A waste of skin.

He is breaking your home up with his behaviour. Best advice. Start preparing for him to leave.

I didn't think you can go to marriage counselling on your own though and god help me I still love him, all I really want is to have our marriage. Its been 23 years and I don't want to throw that all away
Sorry I've read lots of posts on here but this is the first time I posted sorry if this doesn't seem to make sense

Yes you can go to a marriage counsellor on your own. In fact lots and lots of people do.
I'm sorry but unless he starts trying to win you back I don't think there is much long term hope for your relationship. And is he going to try to win you back when you are doing all the running? The best at present is that you manage to cling on and hide it from yourself what he is up to with other women.
He may blame you, but that doesn't mean it is all your fault. Shifting blame is quite normal, as is rewriting history.

Please get some counselling and sort your feelings out.

OK mummytime but how do I tell him I expect him to start trying to win me back? Like I say he just doesn't like talking about feelings, none of his family do they brush everything to one side and pretend it didn't happen then go moaning to their friends instead, that's what he's done too I suppose

He blamed you for his affair, and still 'gets nasty' to the extent that you're a nervous wreck about it all, still?

He's learned nothing, then. Either about your relationship or about himself.

The sensible suggestion that everyone would make is marriage counselling. But you've answered that one, sadly. And your answer is what tells me that yes, this relationship is over. If it ever was a particularly good one, with him in it.

The silver lining is that once you take the plunge on this one, I don't predict a huge amount of time will pass before the future suddenly looks brighter and happier than it has for years. He's horrible, isn't he? That's really what it is.

Don't be stuck with a truly horrible person. There's no need.

Well he's not horrible ALL the time I suppose but he gets really nasty if things aren't done his way, and I know Ive been wrong to put up with it so much which is why I can't see how I can find words to tell him to change now. All of these women on here seem to be so articulate with their OHs and I want to be the same but I just don't know how

A problem is that I've not worked for many years after raising our family and I can't at the moment because I've been on ADs for years and I can't seem to get my head around where I go from here, I thought we would grow old together and now its all a mess

No one is horrible ALL the time, or not and in a relationship, none of us are that stupid misguided.

Get Shirley Glass's Not Just Friends - this will help you understand what is happening and why.

Your H has not taken full responsibility for the affair -instead of talking to you, suggesting counselling, spending time with you etc, he chose to shag the other woman as a way of resolving his issues.

His behaviour suggests that he has learned nothing and is blaming you instead of working out why he had the affair instead of investing into his marriage.

Listen. Ive been where you are (51, 22 years together) and with alot more net based women on his side, denied for years.

God knows, I do know how tough it is, and I cant answer your main question about getting the trust back- I havnt yet (but only 4-5 months since discovery).

BUT I would not take that rubbish eg the way he talks to you. He is wrong here, not you. If he had a problem with the relationship, he should deal with it by talking to you. Or he could have left, and then had another relationship, couldnt he?

I found it hard to decide to leave- I didnt leave, but I did get to the point where I would have, and THEN he changed radically, and still is a new man (or so I think).

Now dont get me wrong, the fact that it took this much to get him to be honest and to change his behaviour was no unnoticed by me. But I have decided to give him one chance. Most MNers thought I was mad.

But truly, I wouldnt take what you are taking, in terms of the current behaviour, let alone the trust issue, which he has not helped you to address at all through any real concrete reassurance.

I always was fairly confident, and able to argue back, it just never used to get me anywhere. And I do think these sorts of men, if they dont change, will have you questioning yourself all the time instead of them- I was in that situation, certainly.

You dont need to doubt yourself. He gets nasty if things arent done his way? If you let him get away with this, he is far more likely, in my view , to do it again, as he doesnt respect you as a person. Telling him top develop some respect for you, or do it himself, will get you further with him than any other thing you could do.

He has got your self esteem on the floor, hasnt he? No wonder you are on ADS.

Finally, what made me shift, finally, is the nurse I saw when I was trying to give up smoking (and I had shared some of my fears) saying to me,

"You can continue to do nothing. But do you want to be in this boat this time next year, or the next? Is it going to change on its own?"

It did make me see that it wasnt going to change on its own, ie just because I wanted it to, and I couldnt cope with it long term. And I finally understood that it would have gone on, and I was only coping by struggling through one miserable week after another, without any happiness.

I hope that helps, a bit.

Ps. Look at some assertiveness training materials online, too!

Your H has not taken full responsibility for the affair

Yes Madabouthot choc that's what I think but I do still want him to so we can work this out, but I know we won't do that if I'm a doormat

And you're right fiveinthree, I know my self esteem is rubbish at the moment and that's the problem about being a doormat, its all very well people saying not to put up with it but that's hard when you I know what to tell him, and like you said he doesn't give me any reassurance, he just expects me to forget it. You said you were ready to leave then he suddently changed, so please don't mind, what did you do to change him?

This is it really, I want him to change and I want to not be a kicking post for him but I don't know how and it all goes round and round in a horrible circle

You don't get trust back. I forgave DH's affair of 1999/2000 because I didn't want to split up our family. I wish I hadn't . . . we would have been fine. 12 years on I am about to embark on what will be a hideous divorce - he left (for yet another woman) 6 weeks ago with the words 'I will be fine, I don't give a shit what happens to you'. IF he accepts blame, is prepared to go to counselling, etc - maybe. If not - as in my case - you will end up like me. Disclaimer - I am apprehensive of what I'm about to go through. I'm sure there will be dreadful times ahead. But at 51 I am looking forward to a happier future - whether that's alone or not. And my sons never, ever want to see him again and wonder why I stuck it out.

Yes I know you're right, you're all absolutely right, but my point is this, just how do I approach him to tell him he needs to change? How do I even begin the conversation?

Don't forget that all he's ever done is sweep everything under the carpet, he does NOT like stuff that's emotional. A confession, he's also completely impotent which is why he didn't go for a real woman but cheated by internet instead

The trust isn't the problem here.

If you got it back (unlikely in your case) you would still be married to a selfish bullying man who has robbed you of your self-esteem and your mental health.

Love, if I had a tenner for every woman who was on anti-depressants for years who belatedly realised that the cause of her depression wasn't chemical, but in human form, I'd be a rich woman indeed. Women who on exiting the harmful relationship found that they didn't need the anti-depressants at all and who felt very angry that they had been medicating themselves for years when the problem wasn't them, but the man they were with.

I can only encourage you to try something new, instead of staying with this man and drugging yourself in order to cope with him, because nothing will change for you personally if you stay in this relationship. You can't change him and you can't fix him.

You can only fix yourself and change what you're doing.

If you read Not Just Friends as well as affairs threads on here - the only way for your husband to realise you mean it is to ask him to leave or stay and commit himself to repairing the marriage by going to counselling etc.

The fact that he finds communication difficult is probably one of the reasons why he had the affair - and if this is not resolved, he is likely to cheat again.

"just how do I approach him to tell him he needs to change? How do I even begin the conversation? "

Be prepared. Decide what exactly you are unhappy about. Write it down if necessary. Outline what you want to happen next whether that's going for counselling or changing specific behaviours. Rehearse the consequences for non-compliance e.g if we can't resolve this, our marriage is over. Anticipate objections. Print out this thread. Get support from a friend if you think it would help. (A shot of scotch ditto). Pick your moment. Then start with the most ominous 4 words in the English language 'we need to talk'... and say your piece.

Nothing new to say here, OP, it's all been said upthread

I recommend some individual counselling for you, by someone specialising in emotional abuse within a partnership

Okay I'll get a copy of Not Just Friends, that sounds like a really good idea

If I'm honest I know I'm actually afraid of him, not that I think he'd hit me or anything, it's just the nasty way he behaves, like its a big effort to make himself pleasant. I really don't know how he's going to take it if I say all this but Charbon is right about the ADs probably being more to do with him than anything else

If I ever got him to agree to counselling, it won't happen but IF, won't he just spend the time justifying everything he does to them too? I'm sure he'd just blame everything on me like he does anyway

Can I just say that firstly, his affair (emotional or pysical) is NOT your fault. I used to tell myself the same things you are, when I found out my DH had an emotional affair.

In my head I'd tell myself that if I'd been prettier, or slimmer, or given him more money to spend, or we'd had more sex, or I'd cooked for him more etc etc he wouldn't have done it. But then it dawned on me that it was HIM that had the problem. If he was feeling unloved, or got a buzz out of what he was doing then it was HIS problem and not mine. An affair is never ok regardless of why he did it.

And to answer your question, no, the trust you had can never grow back. He's broken something that can never be fixed. That said, if he has the right attitude (which i'm afraid it sounds like he doesn't), and takes full responsibility for what he did, then yes, you can trust him again and rebuild a relationship, but it will never be the same, blind trust, you had before.

don't push for joint counselling

this man is an emotional abuser, it isn't recommended

For years I had understood theoretically that you cant change others, you can only change yourself.

But, I did in practice, I must have, believed that within reason I could have a conversation with him which finally I could win, and that he would change. It was complicated by the fact that he did change in minor ways over some things, but never the big things and never for long.

I always used to tell myself a long list of horrors which I would have to face if we split- sell house, kids upset, wont find anyone else , no work at the moment, etc etc. I never could envisage the advantages, IYSWIM.

But one day, when he awful to me over a minor issue, I just snapped, got dressed, and left the bedroom. For several weeks after this, I just knew that I would in fact leave, that nothing was worth this misery, and that the problems would be sorted out one by one. All the other crap, let alone his big secret, (that he had sex chatted other women and had for years), came to the fore.

But funnily enough, it was him laughing at me after I got a snotty and hurtful letter from a rebellious teenager which made me snap. Especially as I had been trying to discipline my oldest teenager into doing her chores when the other kids had, and he had always kept well away from any inconvenient and difficult teenager conversations (or housework) himself.

Now, although we ended up at Relate, it was HIS CERTAINTY and MINE that I had finally had enough, and certainly would leave, that I was brave enough and willing enough to do it, which I believe made him WANT to change. He wanted it for his own reasons- he didnt want to lose me, and he could see he had got himself into a mess. So, can you see, I didnt change him- never could- he did.

And I also think it helped, and still does, that he knows I will not live like that ever again.

And in any case, the crucial bit of the puzzle is that if he had chosen not to change and not to 'tell' either, and we had split, what had I lost?

And if he reverts over time, I can say to myself, well, I gave him a real second chance, a proper one. Shame he wasnt up to taking it. I can move on and my life will be way better than this.

And if he doesnt revert, then my life is way better than it was anyway.

I have spelled out my story in some detail, in case the steps I went though help you at all.

I'd not thought about it being emotional abuse, AF. I suppose that makes sense after I said I'm afraid of him, I just hadn't thought about it like that. God that almost makes me feel worse about it!! Also why isn't it recommended to do counselling if thats it, don't they think it helps?

Must break off this for a bit, he's on the way home and musn't catch me on here, he's out again later so i'll look in again tonight ...

There are power balances in relationships. What we all want is equal power and equal respect. We may or may not get it.

We also want control over our lives. We always have that, and we tell ourselves that we dont, in a loop in our internal conversations.

Your husband has all the power and control (some of which you have given him) and as a result he doesnt respect you and you dont respect yourself. And he doesnt respect you anyway, partly because of his own issues/personality, and partly because he doesnt have to in order to keep you.

You can take it back.

And he can treat you well if he wants to. Presumably he did once. And if he isnt prepared to, then ... then what?

Joint counselling isn't recommended if there is abuse because the abuser can twist the counselling to become another form of abuse. The abuser is going into counselling not prepared to be or not capable of being honest. The abused partner will go in and open up, thereby giving the abuser more ammunition. Also as the abuser is frequently highly manipulative they will try to get the counsellor on their side, this doesn't always work but a counsellor isn't supposed to inflict their own opinions on the counselling situation, so can stop the session but not accuse either party of anything. (Sometimes if the abused later goes back for solo counselling the counsellor may be more open.)

If he goes for counselling, do not accept everything he says as being the "truth".

what mummytime said re joint counselling

go for counselling by yourself, OP

i also think it very significant you are fightened of him finding you looking for support on Mumsnet

He just went out, and you're right AF I suppose it's a bit weird to worry about being on here, but its all weird and I daren't open my mouth until my own head's sorted or he'll just ignore me

Thanks for info about counselling and yes he'd def railroad it, I can't do with them taking his side as well and me being blamed again. I could go myself but what do they ask, or do they expect you to just talk?

Also thanks Fiveinthree for sharing with me, really helpful. You sound like you'd had enough but it took you time to get there, just like me. Trouble is when you feel this crappy its easier to stand it, but its been ages since I found out and its no better, with him making no effort

TBH I'm genuinely worried about if he walks away with me not being able to work at the moment. We're not loaded so it would be really hard and anyway I never wanted to split, but why won't the bloody man give at least something??!!!