Advice please if anyone's up

[losttheflickumdickumagain]

Cant believe I'm asking this, I think I know I'm clutching at straws.

Yesterday I found an old mobile in my husbands van (I never usually go I there). There were literally loads of calls made, as many as 10 a day up until 5:20 (he gets home around 5:45) I rang the number and a woman answered.

We have 3 dc's aged 5 and under. My world has just dropped from under my feet.

He's smashed the phone in temper, and he's saying someone at works been using it for the last couple if weeks. He swears he's not been having an affair.

I am clutching at straws aren't I?

I think as long as it doesn't drag on for too long (I suppose I mean months and months), trying again (if that's what you'll end up deciding) is for their benefit as well, even if it doesn't work out. My own parents split up when I was three or four. Since I was older, I always resented my mum to some degree that she hadn't tried harder to make it work. It would never have worked and I am very happy for her having chosen a future without him, so it's not like I am sad they didn't stay together. But I would have really appreciated for her to try harder to make sure she'd done all she could. Maybe she had, but as far as I'm aware when she'd had enough (their issues were nothing like what you're going through) she just left, rather than saying to him unless you change x y and z I'll go.
Sorry, I don't mean to ramble, just wanted to point out that you're not failing them should you give him another chance and he still cocks it up. x

Ordered it already thank you five.

I've texted her nervous times, she won't talk to me. He says that what he's been begging her to do since I found out. I don't know her last name or where she lives.

He swears blind he knew what he was doing was wrong, but he never felt it was that wrong because it was just a close friendship. He says they talked about alsorts of things that he didn't bother me with.

Personally I don't see what he's got to text her about 30 times a day. At least if he admitted it was sexual, we'd have somewhere to go. I've told him that, I even went gutter level and said (please excuse this, I was trying to shock him), that she could've been sucking him off three times a day for all I care, the only thing I'm bothered about is him being honest about it now. Sound lovely there don't I? But that is the level I've been dragged down to .

Thank you for that Jokat, I needed to hear something like that. Really petrified of messing with them.

Hmm. Funny thing is, my h made a big deal about how it was all about power and control, and not sex. I wasnt convinced. The thing is, he said that you cant be sexual on the computer anyway , etc etc. But he does admit to using the stories they told him to look at porn and masturbate later, so of course it was bloody sexual.

As the Glass book points out, men are more concerned if their wives have an emotional affair and women if their husbands have a sexual one. So I wonder whether we get this kind of slant on the story, as they are trying to deflect from what would concern them it we had an affair?

How many times has he lied since he admitted a few weeks ago the 18 month text fling? That might be telling.

What is he offering to do to sort himself out?

I can say, categorically, that 5 months on from you I still have my doubts about whether I got the whole story, but I am equally certain I wont get anything else out of him if it exists. That can leave you with days where you resent having to live with a few grains of uncertainty, and that you have to base the future on trusting a person who has been so untrustworthy. And you know that if they are lying, they are giving you the very same treatment that you fell for before, even if the actual affair is over now.

On the other hand, I have also found, contradictorilly, that it matters less to me. It is the past. However, I moved on from reading/thinking about affairs, to reading about sex addiction (if it exists) and 'him' type issues, to thinking and reading more about me. ie why was I so naive, and why didnt I see the clues, and why did I believe the lies when a tiny bit of evidence here and there popped up? and more importantly, why did I accept his treatment of me during that phase, which was shit, and for which he tried to blame me in large part?

That book will help you a lot with the latter- I personally found it as good as counselling, and very focussed. It helps you see that your own outward confidence may be no defence against exploitation in a marriage, and it has exercises to help you to diagnose any issues in you which makes you vulnerable.

I can state with utter certainty that it wont happen to me a second time, without him being shown the door.

The weird thing is five, is that until that photo message 2 years ago, there was absolutely nothing dodgy. Apart from a couple of cigarette incidents.

He's always been a bit cold/distant sometimes. That's the way he is, he's a bit of a dreamer or empty headed as he'd say. It's the one thing that's always bothered me about him. I suppose I am overly emotional/sensitive, always have been. I worry about everything. But since having the dc's nothing's really changed between us except time alone together (we haven't had any at all since ds1 was born 5.7 years ago). It's all very well people saying you need to get out together, but we have no family here, and I seem to have been breastfeeding for the last 5.7 years between the three of them. And things have got harder since we had the children, but it's supposed to isn't it? That's what we signed up for. They're more than worth the hard work.

I did notice that he's been getting grumpier and grumpier as times gone by, it's been a bit like living with victor meldrew. But he has also been under a huge amount of pressure since he started to work for himself. Money is a huge issue at the moment, we really need to sort that side of things out because we do seem to be living beyond our means.

The fact we've been growing further apart makes sense now I know he's been chatting to her for nearly four years. He's said he really never thought it was affecting us, because it was just a friendship, he says she was more like a sister. He'd told me all about her and her husband and some things she's been through with her children the last couple of years. He says he was more worried about me finding out about smoking, because although he knew it was wrong to keep her a secret, because it wasn't sexual, he didn't really think he was doing anything wrong. But he did feel like a hypocrite because he hadn't liked my friendship with my best friend from school (male), who I spoke to once in a blue moon, and I knew he didn't like it so i stopped. He says the difference was my friend had had a thing for me, which was true a long time ago, but he's married now with a fourth child on the way!

Sorry, I'm wittering again I know, just trying to explain how things are.

He's admitted his relationship with her has been affecting us, he just didn't realise it.

He's said he hates the man he's been. He doesn't want to lie and be secretive. He wants us to be proud of him. He's sworn he's going to change, address why he feels the need to be secretive, and why he ever thought I was unapproachable about things, he's done anything to avoid conflict, and sometimes you need it. He's said he'll do whatever I want, and he'd never risk losing his family again.

That's about it, long I know, sorry said I could waffle

Hello Lost

I've read the thread, although I may have missed bits, but one thing sticks in my mind.

He grabbed you around the throat, twice I think, and one time your DS was frightened and wet himself? And yesterday you said you think he deserves another chance? I don't think so. Disregarding all the "girlfriend" stuff for a moment, grabbing you around the throat is reason enough not to stay with this man. That's really bad, there is no excuse for that, ever.

I've slightly edited a response that Hattytown made on another thread yesterday and also changed 5 years to 4 to reflect the length of time your h has been engaging in a clandestine affair, and I trust that she won't object to my reproducing it here as it seems to me that it has as much relevance for you as it does for the OP that she addressed it to:

'It's really worth you stopping for a moment and asking yourself why you want to stay with him?

This affair could have gone on for another 4 years if you hadn't found out.

The deception was so intricate that over 4 years your husband became that person. It will take years for him to become a very different person again and would take substantial individual therapy and personal effort on his part.

If you've got children, don't think it's better for them to stay in a marriage with someone with these character flaws because it's not. If anything, they are more likely to learn that cheating and lying to people is acceptable, because what your husband has been doing cannot be divorced from his overall character and ways of surviving in the world.

Someone who has carried out a long term deception like this is never going to be someone who is honest and transparent in his dealings with other people and situations in his life, which is what I mean by this being about his whole persona."

I agree with the last two posts.

I think you're failing your children OP.

You're putting your own needs before theirs.

Believe the unbelievable if you must. You're going to have to survive on denial from now on after all. You've done it before when you saw that photo, you've been doing it ever since, despite the harm it has done to your children.

I'm sorry if that stings, but I can't stand people who put their need for a man before their children's welfare and emotional safety.

Stings is an understatement charbon. Believe it or not I'm trying my best to do what's right for them. I don't know if I'm doing the right thing, I have no idea. But u hope I'm trying.

The violence issue was not as bad as it sounds really. The first time it was more a collar grab be cause u was going in and in and wouldn't stop, ds1 did wet himself a little while later, but I'm very ashamed to say for all I know that could have been because if the obvious distress I was in. I'm not proud of how I handled that weekend, i tried my best not to say things in front of the dc's, but I was a wreck.
The second time he did properly grab me by the throat, but the children were in bed, and he had just walked in from walking the dogs, to me laying into him and telling him to fuck off out now and I'd pack his bags (that's minutes after I'd checked his phone history). and it was in response to me saying get out or I will and take the children with me.

I'm by no means excusing what he did, but neither is he, and it was me that was being confrontational. I'm not proud if myself for those times either.
I'm by no means excusing it, but I was being ver

Sorry for typos again, bloody phone and me rushing.

I really did mess all that typing up

Right, I'm not being rude if anyone says anything and I don't reply. I'm taking the dc's away, and wifi is terrible there.

I hope that this time you're taking the dcs away on your own so that you get some time and space to think without him being around to distract you.

OP: Your need for a man should not outweigh the need for the emotional stability of you and your children. I've lurked on this thread and haven't posted so far, but the minimising of violence is a worry to me.

One of the things underpinning your H's "affair" is the dishonesty. That's one of THE MOST IMPORTANT things about being in a relationship and he decided that you weren't worth being honest with.

Lots of people are under pressure and they become grumpy, but the thing is, that the both of you are supposed to be life partners, so he should have talked to you. Not deceived you. Ignored you. Scared the bejaysus out of you and your kids.

Give yourself some physical distance from him to clear some headspace for yourself......

Your h isn't 'empty-headed'. On the contrary. He's a calculating liar and the only reason he's 'cold and distant' is that his mind is so full of himself and his need to plot and plan in order to gratify and satisfy his desires, there's little space left in it to consider the needs of others such as yourself and your dc.

He's gone from anger to violence to broken man to promising to change but he's yet to tell the truth about what has obviously been a full on sexual affair of many years duration and which, to date, there is no evidence to suggest that it's over.

If he has truly spent 4 years having 'deep and meaningful' text and, given that it's not easy to debate philosophy or put the world to rights in 50 or 60 characters a time, presumably phone conversations with a woman who he claims is a 'like a sister' to him, then he'll have no problem whatsoever in giving you her name and address, will he?

My fear is that someone as intrinsically honest as yourself is out of your depth with this well-practised deceiver, and that your need to believe that he's something other than what is apparent to anyone reading your thread will overide your commonsense.

I'm not suggesting you divorce him. What I am suggesting is that, at this early stage after your discovery, you should not rush to make any decision as to whether to give him another chance - and if he finds it uncomfortable waiting for you to make a decision, so much the better.

You may not always like what you read here but you need this thread, honey. It's your reality check and, as you're beginning to find out, reality can be a very harsh taskmaster.

I'm not proud of how I handled that weekend

You have nothing to be ashamed of. He, on the hand, should be hanging his head in abject shame.

But I'm not getting any sense that he's ashamed of what he's done; what I am getting is a sense of is a man who's a sexist pig of the old school and sees no reason why he shouldn't treat women as if they've been put on this earth to do his bidding.

Playing happy families by going away with him is simply reinforcing his belief that, given sufficient time, he'll be able to convince you that black is white - and so far he's been proved right, hasn't he?

< applauds izzy >

"emptyheaded" ? This man ? No. His head is a seething mass of plots and justifications and tactics to get his own way

it's working

I wrote the above before I read your response on another OP's thread: Tell me about the phone threads on here, my h must have been having a right laugh at me when I read him one a couple of months ago. I was going on about how shocked the poor woman was, and my h was agreeing, all the time he had one in his glovebox! I remember thinking about mumsnet when i found it

He may no longer have a huge smile on his face but inside he's still 'having a right laugh' at you, honey

oh yes, his head was busy, busy, busy with 101 ways to make a fool out of you

plenty of activity going on there

Your paragraph about "the violence issue was not as bad as it sounds really" is disturbing.

"More of a collar grab"? It's just violence, plain and simple, and it doesn't matter how much you provoked him. The whys and wherefores matter not a bit, he has crossed a barrier and you can't undo that.

I'm by no means excusing what he did, but neither is he

Isn't he? You could have fooled me. Ever since you found out all he's told lie after lie after lie to excuse what he's done - and weeks later he's still lying through his teeth.

The duration of his initially non-existent affair started at 18 months, grew to 2 years, and currently stands at 4 years. The ow started off 'in her 50''s and the latest update has her 'in her 40's' - wish I could turn back time so easily.

And that fancy history of her and her husband and the troubles she's had with her dc? Five'll get you ten she's a single woman in her 30's.

He says he was more worried about me finding out about smoking, That is classic! Now we're starting to get to his idea of 'truth' which is the smoke and mirrors that all habitual deceivers resort to in order to disguise it.

Turn the extractor fan full on and smash the glass. It'll hurt like hell but it'll be a lot closer to the truth than the bullshit he's fed you.

The amount of texting he has been involved in on a daily basis plus the need to have another phone to do it equals a huge addiction.

Who ever heard of such an addiction to a platonic friendship?

Gambling, sex, romantic feelings, pornography, drugs, alcohol... all things that CAN be very addictive.

But a platonic friendship that wasn't sexual or physical

But is he going to stop texting the OW, even when you were going to relate he was still texting her, when he was so close to losing you all he was still texting her. What guarantees has he given you that he wont text her anymore, as clearly texting her is more important than his marriage

I know I'm being an idiot, don't get me wrong. I've done nothing but get on at him all weekend. I can't stand looking at him. I'm not bloody stupid, but sometimes after we've had a chat, he seems so plausible, if that's the right word, and sorry. But after a couple of hours and my head, and I know it's all shit. All I've done this weekend is look at him and think how much I don't beef him in my life, money issues aside, I think me and the dc's would be better off without him. I know I'm being crap at this, I'm just trying to sort it, but it's hard when I'm all over the place. Mums coming on Thursday, and I'm seeing a solicitor. I'm hoping I'll be able to sort some stuff out then. I just keep thinking this is a toxic relationship now, sounds melodramatic I know, but thats how I feel.

For beef read need